Dogs on the Metrolink

[Gathursty]

I was on the Bury line and the tram driver didn't set off until a lady got off the train with her (not a guide) dog.

I'm certain you can take a dog on any train so I presumed the Metrolink would accept any dog too.

Have no dogs on the Metrolink always been a rule?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have no dogs on the Metrolink always been a rule?

Yes, it's been no dogs (except guide dogs / assistance dogs) ever since Metrolink started up in 1992.

Metrolink byelaws

Bye-laws applying to Greater Manchester Metrolink

tfgm.com

 

[Mothball]

Its been a rule as long as I can remember, although I seem to recall reading something about Andy Burnham looking to change it so all dogs are allowed. Is there a no dogs rule on other systems, London Underground, DLR, Tyne and Wear, Sheffield etc. Certainly some of the crush loadings you could see before Covid could make it rather dangerous, not just for the people but for the dogs, especially smaller ones.

 

[jfollows]

Conditions of carriage at https://tfgm.com/public-transport/tram/conditions-of-carriage state (and have always stated, in my memory):

CARRIAGE OF ANIMALS​

51.Animals are not to be conveyed on Metrolink with the exception of: -
a) Guide dogs accompanying blind persons; and / or
b) Hearing dogs accompanying deaf persons;

 

[Ianno87]

Yep, a rule of 1992 vintage.

It's never however been clear *why* the rule is deemed necessary.

 

[jfollows]

Yep, a rule of 1992 vintage.

It's never however been clear *why* the rule is deemed necessary.

I don't like dogs, nor do I dislike dogs, but I don't want to have to interact with them on public transport. That said, there are people who dislike dogs and are frightened by them, and for them it'd be a more significant problem than it is for me. Presumably the rule is to accommodate these people, who might otherwise choose not to use the Metrolink, rather than my preference which wouldn't prevent me from travelling.

 

[deltic]

Its seems a strange rule given dogs are allowed on the London Underground and dogs and escalators do not mix well - hence the message that dogs must be carried on them

 

[gnolife]

You used to be able to take them on the tram to an appointment the PDSA at Old Trafford, you had to use a help point and state that you had a dog that required travel, and they would relay that to the drivers. I think it went in 2015

 

[Comfy]

Its been a rule as long as I can remember, although I seem to recall reading something about Andy Burnham looking to change it so all dogs are allowed. Is there a no dogs rule on other systems, London Underground, DLR, Tyne and Wear, Sheffield etc. Certainly some of the crush loadings you could see before Covid could make it rather dangerous, not just for the people but for the dogs, especially smaller ones.

Dogs are allowed on tyne and wear metro.

 

[507 001]

You used to be able to take them on the tram to an appointment the PDSA at Old Trafford, you had to use a help point and state that you had a dog that required travel, and they would relay that to the drivers. I think it went in 2015

Nope. Still a thing. They don’t relay it to us drivers though, they give you a code which you’re supposed to show to the driver before getting on. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve made a PA, repeated it and then walked up to the rear set of doors on a double unit for the person involved to shout ‘av gotta coooddddee mate’.

Personally I would rather have the Dog than the Human in a lot of cases. Some drivers will let Dogs on but considering it’s for insurance purposes then I will follow the rules to the letter. Same goes for bikes. If you get on I ain’t moving.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A fairly recent online write-up on the subject matter at the following link...

Why can't my dog travel on the Manchester Metrolink?

They've been banned since 1992.

themanc.com

Extract of webstory...

Dogs are banned and have been since the Metrolink’s inception in 1992, with the exception of assistance dogs and pets being taken to/fromx the PDSA charity in Old Trafford.

Justifications for retaining the ban today include concerns regarding passenger safety, fouling, damage to trams, animals’ behaviour, delays and people with allergies.

 

[Ianno87]

Nope. Still a thing. They don’t relay it to us drivers though, they give you a code which you’re supposed to show to the driver before getting on. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve made a PA, repeated it and then walked up to the rear set of doors on a double unit for the person involved to shout ‘av gotta coooddddee mate’.

Personally I would rather have the Dog than the Human in a lot of cases. Some drivers will let Dogs on but considering it’s for insurance purposes then I will follow the rules to the letter. Same goes for bikes. If you get on I ain’t moving.

Ah right, so you're not insured to carry dogs (except assistance dogs)?

 

[Mojo]

Metrolink seem to be inexplicably strict on many sorts of behaviour - food and drink is also banned, even at Tramstops.

It's funny because whenever I used to travel on their services, almost every journey was affected by people acting illegally in some sort of antisocial manner.

 

[507 001]

Ah right, so you're not insured to carry dogs (except assistance dogs)?

Correct.

Metrolink seem to be inexplicably strict on many sorts of behaviour - food and drink is also banned, even at Tramstops.

It's funny because whenever I used to travel on their services, almost every journey was affected by people acting illegally in some sort of antisocial manner.

Food and drink is very, very rarely enforced to be fair.

Could you imagine how bad ASB would be if we didn’t have very strict rules?

 

[Mothball]

Dogs could be allowed on Metrolink trams for the first time if a trial gets the green light

Transport bosses are due to discuss plans for a pilot scheme to allow caged dogs in carriages at their meeting this week

www.google.com

That was the article I remember about Burnham looking to start a trial to allow dogs on board, back in 2015 and nothing since so doesn't looks like a non starter

 

[alex397]

Even though I’m a dog lover, I can understand why dogs might be banned.

I’ve noticed on my travels across Europe that many cities allow dogs on their trams, but only if they are muzzled. Perhaps that could be a compromise for Metrolink.

 

[AY1975]

Dogs could be allowed on Metrolink trams for the first time if a trial gets the green light

Transport bosses are due to discuss plans for a pilot scheme to allow caged dogs in carriages at their meeting this week

www.google.com

That was the article I remember about Burnham looking to start a trial to allow dogs on board, back in 2015 and nothing since so doesn't looks like a non starter

Unfortunately TfGM rejected it in the end: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-34811122

This article is also interesting and explains (or at least tries to explain) the anomaly whereby you can take a dog on a bus or a train but not on a tram: https://ilovemanchester.com/why-arent-dogs-allowed-on-the-manchester-metrolink

 

[Comfy]

You can take them on tyne and wear metro and they don't have staff in the carriage or on the platform either. Dogs are far better behaved than a lot of the humans on public transport

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can take them on tyne and wear metro and they don't have staff in the carriage or on the platform either.

Or on DOO train services all over the country.

Like bicycles, I see it as an excuse. "We did a survey, we worked out that people would rather dogs were allowed and almost nobody objected, but we're going to ignore it. Ner."

 

[Chester1]

Even though I’m a dog lover, I can understand why dogs might be banned.

I’ve noticed on my travels across Europe that many cities allow dogs on their trams, but only if they are muzzled. Perhaps that could be a compromise for Metrolink.

The other compromise would be allowing them off peak only. Pre pandemic it simply wasn't safe to have dogs on peak time trams. I don't see the problem on less busy services. I would have the same policy with bikes.

 

[507 001]

The other compromise would be allowing them off peak only. Pre pandemic it simply wasn't safe to have dogs on peak time trams. I don't see the problem on less busy services. I would have the same policy with bikes.

Dogs maybe (although personally I quite like being able to walk into the saloon without worrying about Dean from the Kingsway estate and his Mastiff), but as for bikes there is simply nowhere for them to go.

 

[mmh]

Yep, a rule of 1992 vintage.

It's never however been clear *why* the rule is deemed necessary.

Manchester in 1992 was a rather different place to now.

 

[WatcherZero]

The reason for the no dogs rule on Metrolink is because they were concerned that in a high volume system with a lot of standing passengers people would be stepping on dogs tails or otherwise agitating them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason for the no dogs rule on Metrolink is because they were concerned that in a high volume system with a lot of standing passengers people would be stepping on dogs tails or otherwise agitating them.

Funny how they manage to be carried on other high volume systems with a lot of standing.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't mind dogs on public transport as long as they are well behaved. I would be happy for them to be allowed on the understanding that if they start being aggressive, making a lot of noise or causing damage, drivers instruct them (and their owner) to alight at the next stop.

 

[KeithMcC]

Noticed that in Sweden, dogs are allowed on trams but only in at the back - with a door marked as such. So those who are allergic/scared can sit somewhere else.

 

[Jim the Jim]

Correct.



Food and drink is very, very rarely enforced to be fair.

Could you imagine how bad ASB would be if we didn’t have very strict rules?

Problem is if you have rules for little things that aren't enforced, people cotton on to that pretty quickly, and assume that they can get away with worse behaviour as well. So nominally banning food but not actually doing anything about it might actually make people more likely to escalate to doing much more obnoxious things. And of course things like a ban on food are really hard to enforce effectively. It might be better not to have the ban in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Problem is if you have rules for little things that aren't enforced, people cotton on to that pretty quickly, and assume that they can get away with worse behaviour as well. So nominally banning food but not actually doing anything about it might actually make people more likely to escalate to doing much more obnoxious things. And of course things like a ban on food are really hard to enforce effectively. It might be better not to have the ban in the first place.

I don't know about food, but not allowing one to drink a coffee from a lidded cup on a tram is just silly.

 

[AM9]

I don't mind dogs on public transport as long as they are well behaved. I would be happy for them to be allowed on the understanding that if they start being aggressive, making a lot of noise or causing damage, drivers instruct them (and their owner) to alight at the next stop.

It's often the case that agressive dogs have similarly agressive owners, and why should a lone driver have the job of dealing with such people. 'Well behaved' is subjective and a driver is likely to end up in a confrontation with many passengers who either don't agree that the behaviour is below the acceptable level, (or are too fearful of the dog's owner(s)). Arbitrary rules are dangerous in an emotional charged situation unless there are adequate staff to deal with those who think that the rules don't apply to them.

 

[507 001]

I don't know about food, but not allowing one to drink a coffee from a lidded cup on a tram is just silly.

You have experienced the ride quality of an M5000 haven't you?