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Don't mess with 25kV

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G8

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You are correct about the 'Fizz'. I heard it manty times during my driving career and it is avery unpleasant sound. It was experienced mostly on the north London lines in and around Stratford where the wires were really quite low and in heavy rain the wire would arc onto the wagons, especially freightliner containers. There would be this eerie fizzling sound that filled the air, followed by the flash. I have seen the electricity go down the sides of the wagons. That fizzling sound is probably the last thing anyone getting that close remembers.

As a driver I have seen people do some really stupid things but getting on top of a wagon or coach with 25K of elecrtricity above them has to be one of the worst. It really does make you wonder about some people. Standing at the cab door on a 37 is as close as you want to get.

I remember making comment at the north end of the Bletchley flyover of how close the wire was when at the cab door of an 800 hydraulic and they never appeared on those duties again. You could almost have streched your arm up and touched the wire.

As a rule of thumb we were told not to get closer than nine feet to the wire.
That "fizz" one can hear is due to high moisture content in the atmosphere - it appears during rain or bad weather/storms and is called an electrical corona.It can be hear and seen on HV cables and equipment and even on conductive objects in their vicinity when the conditions are right.But this is NOT a FLASHOVER or FAULT.The corona itself is not very dangerous to humans. If the lightning strikes railway overhead conductors,than it can really sometimes arc to wagon's roofs few feet beneth.But that happens very rarely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes. I was VERY FIRMLY taught that the 9 foot rule was indisputable. It was supported by the (apocryphal) story of a worker who lost a leg by climbing just a little less that 9ft closer to the conductor. Every one seems to nod knowingly about this poor worker - (though I'm not persuaded that anyone actually knew them).
9 feet is so called a "safety distance".That's not an open-air gap lenght 25 kV will arc to.That's not possible.9 feet distance is given as precaution if people carry long objects such as poles etc.If the worker got a jolt of electricity at distance a little less than 9 feet from wire there must be something else (conductive) between him and OLE.Ladder for example.
 
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Crossover

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I had to do mine on the ECML at Hornsey depot. Admittedly there were no juice rails to worry about, but we had to safely cross the entire width of the depot, all the running lines (linespeed 95mph) and Ferme Park Sidings, and then get back again.

O L Leigh

Just out of interest, is there any danger of standing on the running rails.

I seem to remember reading that the Pendos, as part of the regenerative braking, produce power that is either put into the OHLE again or onto the running rails if not required (or that is my understanding at least) - therefore I'd assume there is a danger. Are there any other trains that feed power into the running rails?

I have heard the fizzing on the lines before - while waiting for a train on a wet day, you can hear the lines conducting because of the water on them - quite disconserting.

I guess the theory goes that if for some reason the lines were to touch a train while in a station (fairly unlikely I guess) then you wouldn't want to go anywhere near the train....or in general, if it happens at all, not to be touching anything conductive within the train either?
 

16CSVT2700

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Just out of interest, is there any danger of standing on the running rails.

I seem to remember reading that the Pendos, as part of the regenerative braking, produce power that is either put into the OHLE again or onto the running rails if not required (or that is my understanding at least) - therefore I'd assume there is a danger. Are there any other trains that feed power into the running rails?
The regenerated power is put back into the overheads, not the running rails. Signalling systems would be a bit buggered if it was put back into the rails!
 

Crossover

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The regenerated power is put back into the overheads, not the running rails. Signalling systems would be a bit buggered if it was put back into the rails!

Good point, I had overlooked that one!

So I would assume there is no danger, aside from a tripping hazard or if there is a train coming (which I have also generally noticed you can tell from the noise made by what I gather is resonance in the lines)?
 

jopsuk

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I guess the theory goes that if for some reason the lines were to touch a train while in a station (fairly unlikely I guess) then you wouldn't want to go anywhere near the train....or in general, if it happens at all, not to be touching anything conductive within the train either?

I'd rather hope that should the lines touch the bodywork of the train, the circuit breakers would blow- regardless, being inside the train would pose no harm, and even without the circuit breakers going, I think (though I wouldn't want to risk it) that the circuit through the bodywork, bogies and rails would provide a better (less insulating) path to ground than through your body were you to touch the outside.
 

Old Timer

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The 9 feet rule has its history as follows.

When 25kV was being introduced in the early 1960s there was a need to establish a simple method by which people could relate to what was a safe distance to approach the OHL Equipment.

It was decided to take the normal maximum height of a person (6 feet) standing under the nominal OHL height which was 15 feet, thus rendering a clearance of 9 feet.

This then fitted in neatly with a restriction on the raising of anything above the head as was easy for P. Way staff to relate to and remember.

Obviously with metrication, the distance translates to 2.75m.

Whilst it is safe for a person to be within this distance in specific defined situations (unloading cars from car trains was the common one) the closest one can ever approach is two feet, and that is purely for rescue purposes.

All work inside 2.75m has to be specially authorised and appropriate measures put in place to prevent staff and equipment from coming into contact with the OHL.

The normal voltage in the OHL can vary between 23.5kV and 27.5kV.

During fault situations the OHL can reach 60kV with measured ampages of up to 6000A.

It should also be remembered that there are many urban myths about the Return Conductor system not being dangerous. These are actually quite wrong as the RC system is as dangerous, if not moreso than the catenary system as this is monitored by protection equipment whilst the RC system is not and is directly connected to the Neutral Busbar at the TSC/FS.
 
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That was quite shocking especially the explosion as he touched and how he just kind of flopped down, then the burning :cry:
 

O L Leigh

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Just out of interest, is there any danger of standing on the running rails.

I seem to remember reading that the Pendos, as part of the regenerative braking, produce power that is either put into the OHLE again or onto the running rails if not required (or that is my understanding at least) - therefore I'd assume there is a danger. Are there any other trains that feed power into the running rails?

I'm guessing your question refers specifically to any dangers being posed by the electrification system rather than the obvious ones of being hit by a train or slipping/tripping.

Where electric trains operate, the running rails will carry a certain voltage over and above that required for the track circuits. The reason is that there needs to be some way of completing the power circuit in order for the train to run. On the 25kV AC OLE system, power is drawn from the overheads via the pan, stepped down and rectified and then used by the various on-train systems. The current then passes out through the train wheels into the rail. The voltages at this stage will vary widely depending on many factors, but it could be several hundred volts (a Cl317 uses 0-900V for it's traction motors depending on how hard it's being caned).

The reason why the voltage in the rails are not dangerous to life is because the traction return current is drawn off using bonds which transfer the current to the return wires that usually hang on the outside of the OLE structures themselves. However, these bonds can carry a dangerous voltage and must not be touched, which is why they are painted red as a warning (and explains why they are called Red Bonds).

Where a train uses regenerative braking, the power is returned to the electrification system rather than being wasted via the return current path. This means it goes back the way it came, up the pan and into the wires.

I guess the theory goes that if for some reason the lines were to touch a train while in a station (fairly unlikely I guess) then you wouldn't want to go anywhere near the train....or in general, if it happens at all, not to be touching anything conductive within the train either?

If the wires come down the safest place to be is INSIDE the train, as all the power would take the easiest route to earth around the outside of the train. The power would also trip out automatically, although there may still be a residual voltage in the system which could prove nasty. Likewise, any return conductors brought down would also be likely to remain live. So whatever the theory, you wouldn't want to get too close anyway.

O L Leigh
 

Old Timer

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Good point, I had overlooked that one!

So I would assume there is no danger, aside from a tripping hazard or if there is a train coming (which I have also generally noticed you can tell from the noise made by what I gather is resonance in the lines)?

To add to the last post.

The Return Conductor (RC) system where fitted is continuous along the length of the OHL and is connected to the Neutral busbar at the TSC/FS.

Booster transformers (which are 1:1 voltage equalising transformers) are located approximately every 2 to 3 miles. The primary windings of these are connected directly to the Catenary wire of the OHL. The secondary windings are connected to the RC such that the RC passes through them.

When a train enters the OHL section, the primary windings are energised. Because the transformer is an equalising transformer the secondary windings will attempt to equalise themselves with the voltage in the primaries. The effect of this is to make the RC system turn into agiant electrical vacuum cleaner, in which any stray current is drawn up into the RC system from the rails. This is achieved by what are known as Mid-Point Connections (MPCs), known by non-OHL staff as Red Bonds. These bonds which are actually coloured red are connected directly from the rail to the RC will be livened up when there is a train in the section, and current passing through them is sufficient to give a nasty belt. In the right (or wrong) circumstances this current will be dangerous to life.

MPCs are therefore extremely dangerous and should never be approached and very definitely never ever touched or interfered with.

Additional bonds known as Transposition Bonds and coloured yellow form the connections when the Traction Return rail changes from one side to the other. Like Red Bonds they can be dangerous to life if the cross-track bonding is disturbed. They can, and will, however give a nasty belt if touched.

On electrified lines at specific locations, all Traction Return rails are connected to one another by what are known as Cross-Track bonds (coloured black). These are installed to ensure that there is always an alternative path to the TSC/FS should any bonding along a track become disconnected.

Broken rails within the Traction Return system are also highly dangerous and should never be bridged until the OHL staff have attended and earthed out the RC round them.

All OHL Structures and metallic/conductive structures inside and alongside OHL Equipped lines are also bonded directly to the Traction Return system, except for S&T location cases, which are earthed separately.

It should be noted that it is not a good idea to "pass water" against an OHL Structure as these do become energised through EMI when the OHL Equipment is live, and if the earthing is inadequate or there is a heavy flow of traction current, one can find that one becomes the earth to the TSC/FS !
 

G8

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To "urinate" from railway bridges against OHL conductors is also a bad idea...-:)
@OldTimer,thanks for the history of the 9 ft rule (I didn't know that!).
 

Old Timer

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To "urinate" from railway bridges against OHL conductors is also a bad idea...-:)
@OldTimer,thanks for the history of the 9 ft rule (I didn't know that!).
Thank you, and no problem.

The history is as old and ancient as I am.

I remember the days when the power of the OHL used to be demonstrated by holding up a flourescent tube towards the OHL Equipment until it lit up !

I also remember the days when we used to have to buy our own safety boots. The only PPE we were issued with were overalls, Pea jackets, and safety helmets when working on OHL installation jobs.
 

G8

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the power of the OHL used to be demonstrated by holding up a flourescent tube towards the OHL Equipment until it lit up !
I guess you must be talking about this effect.If AC electric field is strong enough it can them up to a full :idea: incandescence .
 
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