Doors closing

[movilla]

Are there any rules about when and why the train doors should close? I always thought the general rule was the doors would close approx 30 seconds before off.

Tonight the 00:04 London Midland train out of Euston closed approx 4 minutes early. When asked, one station person said the train was overcrowded but this wasn't the case. It was packed but not completely full. Then I heard another station staff say it had to pick up more people from an AC/DC concert at Harrow & Wealdstone.

So was it fair to close the doors early to pick up more people later on? I've never seen this before.

There were about 25 of us prevented from boarding.

 

[yorkie]

I don't think that is right but I don't know if there is a rule on this.

It does not seem right that they close a train to people boarding 4 mins before departure in order to let people on further down the line - that seems quite bizarre! Quite a few people will get off at Harrow anyway (No sane person would get the stoppers and there aren't that many fasts!)

 

[Nick W]

I always thought 30 seconds was the rule, and this for trains with slam-doors. I have read material that stated that Virgin Trains out of Euston could leave up to a ridiculous amount of time early, about 3-5 minutes it was i think, though I've never experienced this.

 

[movilla]

Just home now.

To clarify, when I arrived at platform 8, there were already around 15 people in a 'debate' with a LM member of staff on why the doors were already closed. While the 4 carriage train was busy, it certainly wasn't at capacity. I've experienced enough London-bound trains to know how packed the trains can really get.

At first, the LM staff member said that the train driver had requested the doors to be closed for safety reasons, being too full. Then when challenged on this, another LM staff member then said it had to pick up people from the AC/DC concert at H&W.

I got the 00:34 and it stopped at Wembley Central and H&W. Some fans got on and some pasengers got offf, nothing out of the ordinary, although I think some of the doors had to be forced open at Wembley Central.

The funny bit was seeing the 2nd LM staff member slam the office door when they were found out giving conflicting stories.

 

[O L Leigh]

There are no specific rules, although each TOC will have it's own policy.

I wonder if there were some modified workings in connection with the event and the 0004 was meant to leave a bit early because of expected longer dwell times at H&W. Station staff may well not have been aware if this was the case if they hadn't read their weekly notices. Mind you, if this was the case it should have been advertised as such. Did you check the screens or did you just pitch up on the basis that you regularly catch the 0004?

Speculation is futile.

O L Leigh

 

[1D53]

The LDB shows it due to depart 0004 and it leaving at 0004.

 

[rail-britain]

Euston is normally 60 seconds before departure
I've now been on a few Glasgow and one Birmingham service
They wave the last person through, and in every case the train has left "early"
On Thursday the 16:30 Euston - Glasgow left at 16:28

 

[ukrob]

I always thought 30 seconds was the rule, and this for trains with slam-doors. I have read material that stated that Virgin Trains out of Euston could leave up to a ridiculous amount of time early, about 3-5 minutes it was i think, though I've never experienced this.

Virgin have posters with 40 seconds on at Liverpool

 

[movilla]

Did you check the screens or did you just pitch up on the basis that you regularly catch the 0004?

I was heading for the 00:34 and arrived early at Euston (underground was working well). I wasn't particularly bothered about not getting on the 00:04 but it would have been a bonus. Others who had been trying to get the train were less impressed.

 

[Pumbaa]

To be fair, Harrow was a dangerous place to be that night; packed platforms, and all trains were heading north crush loaded, including myself who was on the 0004 from Euston.

EMT, LM are 40secs prior to departure.

 

[robert2000]

london midland doors sometimes close by themselves, you can usually just press the button for them to open again.

 

[thefab444]

That's hardly much use if the doors are locked is it?

 

[First class]

Well just for my input on door closing times:

Merseyrail close the doors as soon as the OFF indicator appears, on Underground stations. The signal will not clear until the the EXACT minute of departure. (As in as much as the train COULD NOT run early).

On stations outside the network, as soon as everyone is on, and assuming it is not running early, the guard will give RA immediately.

Although not recommended and allowed, once the guard has closed the doors, some will let you in through the rear cab if you run quick enough, (assuming RA hasnt yet been given).

 

[ukrob]

Well just for my input on door closing times:

Merseyrail close the doors as soon as the OFF indicator appears, on Underground stations. The signal will not clear until the the EXACT minute of departure. (As in as much as the train COULD NOT run early).

On stations outside the network, as soon as everyone is on, and assuming it is not running early, the guard will give RA immediately.

Although not recommended and allowed, once the guard has closed the doors, some will let you in through the rear cab if you run quick enough, (assuming RA hasnt yet been given).

You need to replace the word 'assuming' with 'regardless', especially on the Northern line. It is notorious for running early until the last couple of stations before the terminus (especially the Southport line).

 

[Mojo]

FGW seem to have changed the rules from 30 seconds to 40 seconds quite recently, at least with regards to XC Voyagers and HST operated stock. I've seen this at Temple Meads and also heard announcements to this effect.

I think Voyagers at least need 40 seconds - at Birmingham New Street I've never seen a XC service leave exactly on time due to the need for the RA indicator to be used rather than the guard giving 2 on the bell.

 

[Aictos]

With regards to doors closing on FCC, it depends on local instructions for that station but is basically 20 seconds to departure the doors close and the ready to start given about 10 seconds to departure for a on time departure.

Because it says xx13 in the timetable doesn't mean the doors will close at that time, it means it will be off and moving by that time.

You wouldn't believe how much delays can actually cost and how much of a knock on effect they can have on other services.

 

[charley_17/7]

Standard procedure/rule (locally) seems to be to close doors 30secs prior for local/regional services, and 40secs prior for long distance/intercity.

Exceptions to this can be:

short-formed trains, for example 1723 Piccadilly - Hazel Grove, booked for 4-car (2x142), but sometimes 2-car, if the train is full before departure time, the doors are looked, RA can be given as soon as OFF indicator is lit, even before booked depart time.

'Last' trains to certain destinations will leave at/after booked time, to catch stragglers/late runners, causes less trouble for platform/station staff.

 

[ChrisTheRef]

'Last' trains to certain destinations will leave at/after booked time, to catch stragglers/late runners, causes less trouble for platform/station staff.

Oh you're so right. The 2338 LIV-MAN via WAC never leaves before 2345, sometimes as late as 2350

 

[Jim]

I don't think that is right but I don't know if there is a rule on this.

It does not seem right that they close a train to people boarding 4 mins before departure in order to let people on further down the line - that seems quite bizarre! Quite a few people will get off at Harrow anyway (No sane person would get the stoppers and there aren't that many fasts!)

If (for example) the guard says no more punters though -then it means no more - so whats the point in keeping a train that can't take anyone else in the platform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You wouldn't believe how much delays can actually cost and how much of a knock on effect they can have on other services.

Lots - I'd hate to see the delays bill for major events such as Glastonbury!

 

[Aussie_Rail]

london midland doors sometimes close by themselves, you can usually just press the button for them to open again.

Some of the trains in Melbourne automatically close their doors after they've been open,but if want in or out you just push the button again.

But for the other trains where the doors don't automatically close the driver might close the doors but then enable them to open again, this usually happens in summer to keep the the inside cool when the air-con is running.

Although trains have a habit of leaving a little bit early, I've never heared of a situation where they have closed the doors early. One has to ask, what happens if you are in the train while its at the platform and you want to get out?

 

[Crossover]

Some of the trains in Melbourne automatically close their doors after they've been open,but if want in or out you just push the button again.

But for the other trains where the doors don't automatically close the driver might close the doors but then enable them to open again, this usually happens in summer to keep the the inside cool when the air-con is running.

Although trains have a habit of leaving a little bit early, I've never heared of a situation where they have closed the doors early. One has to ask, what happens if you are in the train while its at the platform and you want to get out?

Yeah, the London Midland trains and First TransPennine Express trains close their doors automatically after a predetermined amount of time if unused as the doors are at 1/3 and 2/3 along the carriage to improve loading time.

Due to the lack of vestibule as most trains have, it leaves them open to the elements and disrupts the air con systems.

It does tend to be quite funny to watch as people dash for the doors when they see one close when the train isn;t due to leave for like 10 minutes - seen it a few times at Birmingham New Street on the New Street to Lime Street service.