Driver arrested for being 'drunk in charge of a train'

[Clip]

About a week ago this now,

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...rol-of-train-on-the-jubilee-line-9212636.html

A Tube driver has been arrested after allegedly being drunk in charge of a train.

The 50-year-old man was at the controls of a northbound Jubilee Line train on Saturday.

Sources said he had had been due to take a break and be replaced by a new driver at Wembley Park partway through his shift.

But he did not get out of the train until several stations later.

At that point a colleague smelled alcohol on his breath and the police were called.

He was arrested after failing to provide a breath sample and is currently suspended from duty.

A British Transport Police (BTP) spokeswoman said: “I can confirm that officers were called to Queensbury London Underground station shortly after 3pm on Saturday.

“A 50-year-old man has been arrested under the Transport and Works Act and has been released on police bail until Wednesday, 2 April pending further enquiries.”

The Jubilee line runs automatically meaning the trains effectively drive themselves, with the driver only operating the doors.

But being drunk in charge of a Tube train could result in criminal charges and instant dismissal from the job.

Finn Brennan, district organiser for London for the train drivers’ union Aslef, said: “We are aware that a member of staff has been arrested and an investigation is taking place.”

A TfL spokesman said: “On Saturday afternoon a train operator was relieved from duty after concerns were raised about his conduct.

“The train operator was subsequently taken into custody by British Transport Police. The member of staff is suspended while investigations by ourselves and the BTP are continuing.”

Looks like Wednesday when we'll find out if he s being charged.

 

[455driver]

Drunk in charge of a train doesnt actually mean he was drunk, just that he was over the railway alcohol limit.

Lets not speculate until Wednesday when you can all go off on one!

We had a driver at <a depot> who failed the alcohol part of a random drug test and he was legal to drive his car home immediately afterwards, he still got (rightly) sacked though.

 

[transmanche]

We had a driver at <a depot> who failed the alcohol part of a random drug test and he was legal to drive his car home immediately afterwards, he still got (rightly) sacked though.

What's the limit on the railway? (For the roads I think it's 35 micrograms per 100ml breath.)

 

[455driver]

I dont actually know, I never drink alcohol if I am working the next day.

 

[transmanche]

I dont actually know, I never drink alcohol if I am working the next day.

That's probably the best idea!

 

[Vicpaul]

Was under the impression it's zero tolerance there are guides but as one poster already states if I wouldn't drink the day before I was booking on duty

 

[chorleyjeff]

Was under the impression it's zero tolerance there are guides but as one poster already states if I wouldn't drink the day before I was booking on duty

Big change from the days of steam!
Footplate staff quaffed many pints in the Corporation Arms during breaks.
Not being judgemental. It was normal to have a couple of pints at work in numerous work places - especially when heavy physical work was done. I worked at a brewery where free beer was on self service tap in the canteen.

 

[Sanatogen]

Was under the impression it's zero tolerance there are guides but as one poster already states if I wouldn't drink the day before I was booking on duty

It's Zero tolerance to those who fail an alcohol or drugs test, the alcohol limit on Network Rail is no more than 13 micrograms per 100 ml breath.

 

[Flamingo]

What's the limit on the railway? (For the roads I think it's 35 micrograms per 100ml breath.)

I think it's 19, but stand open to correction. I know it's considerably less than the driving limit, and applies to ALL staff, regardless of role.

 

[Zoidberg]

Was under the impression it's zero tolerance ...

I presume that you mean that there is zero tolerance to exceeding a sensible limit; rather than you making a reference to zero alcohol being detected.

In the case of the former, I should hope so.

In the case of the latter, I believe that would be impracticable since there are ways other than consuming booze in which alcohol could be present in the body. The body produces its own supply, for example.

 

[Mojo]

I was talking to someone at work last night who failed the D&A test because of a couple of poppyseed rolls he ate beforehand. He was stood down but eventually got his job back.

 

[455driver]

It's Zero tolerance to those who fail an alcohol or drugs test, the alcohol limit on Network Rail is no more than 13 micrograms per 100 ml breath.

It is zero tolerance in that if you fail the test then you will be sacked and no union will back you, they will ensure the test has been carried out correctly but that is about it.

 

[user15681]

19ug (or 13ug, whichever it is) is very strict, although it's completely understandable why that's the case.

In any discussion of intoxication, the common sources of confusion are the differences between milligrams (mg) and micrograms (ug), and differences between breath, urine and blood measures of alcohol. E.g roads limit is 80mg/100ml in blood, 107mg/100ml in urine but 35ug/100ml of breath, I believe.

I really hope this thread doesn't get hijacked by trolls with an agenda against the railway, although I can see it happening.

 

[richw]

I assume they conducted blood or urine tests, as breath test results alone are deemed to unreliable to be used in (road) driving under influence cases.

The cough medicine I'm currently prescribed has alcohol content and says not to drive after taking. (I haven't been taking it so probably why the cough isn't clearing up!)

 

[carriageline]

Drink drive is 80MG per 100ml of blood.

Railway (at least the network rail limit) is 29MG per 100mls - a third less.

AFAIK they do a breath test, and a pee test, not 100% thought.

(Various amounts

29MG in 100ml blood
13UG in 100ml breath
39MG in 100ml urine

 

[A-driver]

I was talking to someone at work last night who failed the D&A test because of a couple of poppyseed rolls he ate beforehand. He was stood down but eventually got his job back.

I don't doubt what you say but suggest caution with that-the poppy seed role thing is a bit of a long standing railway myth. If there were truth to it then we would be advised against eating them.

I have heard the poppy seed role stories numerous times but never officially.

 

[transmanche]

I don't doubt what you say but suggest caution with that-the poppy seed role thing is a bit of a long standing railway myth. If there were truth to it then we would be advised against eating them.

I have heard the poppy seed role stories numerous times but never officially.

snopes.com says it's true that poppy seeds can cause false positive test resuls - and that's normally a reliable source for debunking urban myths.

 

[swt_passenger]

Drink drive is 80MG per 100ml of blood.

Railway (at least the network rail limit) is 29MG per 100mls - a third less.

Your maths is unfortunately a bit out there, 29 is just over a third OF 80, so almost ⅔ less. Quite a significant difference for anyone trying to compare the two...

 

[455driver]

Poppy seeds do produce a false positive but are easily discounted.

 

[user15681]

I've heard from researchers recently that the levels of opiates in poppy seeds is decreased by 90% in processed food, so given that a lot of food is moving that way it may be that false positives are a thing of the past as a result of poppy seeds.

 

[carriageline]

Your maths is unfortunately a bit out there, 29 is just over a third OF 80, so almost ⅔ less. Quite a significant difference for anyone trying to compare the two...

Not my maths, mine isn't good enough to work that out, simply copied what it says in the NR D+A booklet

 

[Daniel]

The drugs and alcohol policy on LU IIRC is no alcohol in the 8 hours prior to starting your shift and no more than 7 units of alcohol in the 24 hours prior to those 8 hours. As with a previous poster, I just don't drink at all the day before a shift.

 

[Lockwood]

Mythbusters also proved the poppy seed thing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not my maths, mine isn't good enough to work that out, simply copied what it says in the NR D+A booklet

OK sorry, but if an 'official guide' has made a pretty misleading mistake that is fairly irresponsible of the authors. Perhaps there's a way of reporting it as an error though internal channels?

 

[richw]

Drink drive is 80MG per 100ml of blood.

Railway (at least the network rail limit) is 29MG per 100mls - a third less.

AFAIK they do a breath test, and a pee test, not 100% thought.

(Various amounts

29MG in 100ml blood
13UG in 100ml breath
39MG in 100ml urine

OK sorry, but if an 'official guide' has made a pretty misleading mistake that is fairly irresponsible of the authors. Perhaps there's a way of reporting it as an error though internal channels?

I suspect its a copying error by Carriageline and more than line makes reference to being a third of drink drive, which would be roughly correct.

 

[Clip]

The drugs and alcohol policy on LU IIRC is no alcohol in the 8 hours prior to starting your shift and no more than 7 units of alcohol in the 24 hours prior to those 8 hours. As with a previous poster, I just don't drink at all the day before a shift.

our lass on the DLr has been told its nothing to drink for 24 hours before a shift!!

 

[A-driver]

our lass on the DLr has been told its nothing to drink for 24 hours before a shift!!

That would be a guide as the time taken to breakdown alcohol varies person to person.

I won't drink 12 hours before booking on (may have a beer with dinner before 5pm if booking on at 5am next day for example as one won't hurt) and am very careful with my next booking in time if I go out drinking 'properly'. 24hours is certainly over cautious but obviously if you do to go near the stuff then you won't have any problems.

I know drivers who work nights who will have a beer at lunchtime and are fit to book on at 2100ish. Personally I wouldn't do that but they have never had problems with med screens, they still have 8hours to get rid of 2units.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I assume they conducted blood or urine tests, as breath test results alone are deemed to unreliable to be used in (road) driving under influence cases.

The cough medicine I'm currently prescribed has alcohol content and says not to drive after taking. (I haven't been taking it so probably why the cough isn't clearing up!)

For road drunk driving cases, a breath sample is fine for evidential use in court if obtained suitably. Hand-held police breathalysers are not approved for evidential use as they aren't very accurate, but anyone failing on one (or suspected to be drunk for other reasons, e.g. failing a FIT test, or a tip-off) can be tested on the evidential machine in a police station (or by means of urine/blood test)

The drugs and alcohol policy on LU IIRC is no alcohol in the 8 hours prior to starting your shift and no more than 7 units of alcohol in the 24 hours prior to those 8 hours. As with a previous poster, I just don't drink at all the day before a shift.

I was under the impression that the policy is no alcohol (or a defined negligible amount of alcohol) in your system, and the 24 hours/8 hours "rules" were just advice to help you not to contravene the policy?

 

[richw]

For road drunk driving cases, a breath sample is fine for evidential use in court if obtained suitably. Hand-held police breathalysers are not approved for evidential use as they aren't very accurate, but anyone failing on one (or suspected to be drunk for other reasons, e.g. failing a FIT test, or a tip-off) can be tested on the evidential machine in a police station (or by means of urine/blood test)

Thanks for clarification, my post was based on a close friends experience. He failed road side breathalyser at around 11pm, and there was no suitable person at the police station to carry out the evidential test. He was told the breathalyser test was not permitted for evidence. His evidential test was carried out at 5am by which time he was under the limit, as they'd left him in a cell for 6 hours, and he pretty much slept it off! He was not charged due to this.

 

[Sidious]

There is a difference between the 'Prescribed Limit' in law - which means contravention is a criminal offence, and the Network Rail guideline limit, which breaching would mean a contravention of an internal policy.

The prescribed alcohol limits in law are the same as on the road:

35µg Alcohol / 100ml Breath
80mg Alcohol / 100ml Blood
107mg Alcohol / 100ml Urine

These are prescribed under s.38(2) Transport and Works Act 1992. The legislation is written in such a way that it mirrors the Road Traffic Act 1988.

The Network Rail Drugs and Alcohol Policy are indeed as stated based on 29mg Alcohol / 100ml blood.