DRS to sell heritage locomotives

[50002Superb]

Apologies, my bad

 

[XCTurbostar]

Apologies, my bad

57003 is at Norwich Crown Point. I thought it was 57002 that was being sold, my apologies.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm not surprised 038 is up for sale - the last time I saw it, it had several messages scrawled in the dirt from various disgruntled DRS Drivers. By all accounts, it seems to be a bit of a pup that one, suffering from electrical gremlins and worn wheel sets. "Back from the Dead, Again" was scrawled underneath the radiator back in August last year.

One I'm surprised that hasn't been sold yet though is 37602 - That arrived into Eastleigh in 2019 and seems to have taken up residence at the back of the works since.

 

[D365]

Hi, Do you know if 37503 (i think it is), 31454 and 60050/60086 (All at Kinsley except 31454) are all owned by Steve Beniston as well as 37418 please? I heard that 37057 might have been owned by them as well but i think its now been sold to Colas Rail. Thank you very much

I can only speak for 37057 which is indeed owned by Colas.

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... the following continues from the Class 57 discussion:

The latest TOPS lists posted on Gen groups shows all five locomotives in pool XHSO along with DRS's seven remaining 37s (37218/401/419/422/423/425/716) and 57002.

Are you sure that DRS only has those seven 37s remaining in service? Excluding the 37s currently up for sale, I have 37 069, 402, 407, 424 on their books.

 

[Trainspotter43]

I can only speak for 37057 which is indeed owned by Colas.

---

... the following continues from the Class 57 discussion:

Are you sure that DRS only has those seven 37s remaining in service? Excluding the 37s currently up for sale, I have 37 069, 402, 407, 424 on their books.

I have 37069,37218,37402,37407,37419, 37422, 37423, 37425 & 37716 on my list but could very easily be wrong. I’m not sure how many 37/6’s remain on DRS books though

 

[Trainspotter43]

I have 37069,37218,37402,37407,37419, 37422, 37423, 37425 & 37716 on my list but could very easily be wrong. I’m not sure how many 37/6’s remain on DRS books though

Sorry forgot to add 37424 to my list

 

[D365]

I have 37069,37218,37402,37407,37419, 37422, 37423, 37425 & 37716 on my list but could very easily be wrong. I’m not sure how many 37/6’s remain on DRS books though

Sorry forgot to add 37424 to my list

Think you’re just missing 401. I haven’t got any /6s down as DRS.

 

[43096]

The current state of the DRS Class 37 fleet, excluding those now sold, is:
In service, XHSO pool: 37218, 37401/419/422/424/425, 37716
Stored, XWSS pool: 37069, 37402/407/423
Stored, tendered for disposal, XSDP pool: 37038/059/259, 37409
Stored, for disposal but not yet advertised, XSDP pool: 37602/605

 

[Trainspotter43]

Think you’re just missing 401. I haven’t got any /6s down as DRS.

Ah yes, forgot about 37401. I keep thinking it’s only on hire to DRS but that’s 37403 I thinking of

 

[Mollman]

DRS are selling three more locos and wanting a sale and lease back arrangement on ten class 37s
https://sharedsystems.eu-supply.com...rnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=SELLAFIELD

TABLE 1
Lot No.	Asset Type	Painted Number	Tendered Price
1	Locomotive	37069
2	Locomotive	37605
3	Locomotive	57002

https://sharedsystems.eu-supply.com...rnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=SELLAFIELD

TABLE 1
Lot No.	Asset Type	Painted Number	Tendered Price
1	Locomotive	37218
2	Locomotive	37401
3	Locomotive	37419
4	Locomotive	37402
5	Locomotive	37407
6	Locomotive	37422
7	Locomotive	37423
8	Locomotive	37424
9	Locomotive	37425
10	Locomotive	37716

 

[Wyrleybart]

I have seen the idea mentioned.
How do DRS intend to their drivers to maintain a competency on traction they don't own ? Are they likely to stable a few on Kingmoor or Gresty so that DRS staff can have a refresh on them before or after work ?

I wonder how much trouble these things would be storing up for Rosco looking to purchase them for leasing back. Who does the maintenance and repairs and more importantly who buys the new wheels ?

Doesn't make sense to me buying old tat - 66s or 68s I can see.

 

[Anonymous10]

I have seen the idea mentioned.
How do DRS intend to their drivers to maintain a competency on traction they don't own ? Are they likely to stable a few on Kingmoor or Gresty so that DRS staff can have a refresh on them before or after work ?

I wonder how much trouble these things would be storing up for Rosco looking to purchase them for leasing back. Who does the maintenance and repairs and more importantly who buys the new wheels ?

Doesn't make sense to me buying old tat - 66s or 68s I can see.

im pretty sure the 37s are pretty much a go anywhere loco which is why they're still in use

 

[pdeaves]

How do DRS intend to their drivers to maintain a competency on traction they don't own ?

Ownership makes no difference if they lease back

 

[43301]

Those ten seem a bit of a strange choice - all /4 apart from one heavyweight /7 and one original /0 (which will have different electricals to the rest). Those two different ones also cannot supply ETS which will preclude some uses.

I realise that condition plays a part, but nevertheless I'm a bit surprised that they've recently sold some /4s rather than standardising and keeping 10 the same for this sale and leaseback plan.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

This is actually a very shrewd business move, to those who are denigrating it.

DRS sells 10 assets, which it needs to be able to fulfil RHTT contracts (other firms don’t have engines that light / suitable axle load for it) and then the buyers have to give them back, with a guaranteed availability rate, all maintenance done, and probably with heavy penalty clauses.

The public sector announces it has secured an upfront cash sum in the sale of assets, has secured “efficiency savings” in reducing spare part holdings, and leaving their maintenance facilities open for their own modern gear, and can, in future, say it doesn’t want them.

It’s also clearly keeping its hand in for any charter work by keeping the 37/4s explicitly.

I would probably have done this if I were them. Huge things like new wheelsets, reconditioned power units and what not are all the new owners’ problem.

 

[37114]

This is actually a very shrewd business move, to those who are denigrating it.

DRS sells 10 assets, which it needs to be able to fulfil RHTT contracts (other firms don’t have engines that light / suitable axle load for it) and then the buyers have to give them back, with a guaranteed availability rate, all maintenance done, and probably with heavy penalty clauses.

The public sector announces it has secured an upfront cash sum in the sale of assets, has secured “efficiency savings” in reducing spare part holdings, and leaving their maintenance facilities open for their own modern gear, and can, in future, say it doesn’t want them.

It’s also clearly keeping its hand in for any charter work by keeping the 37/4s explicitly.

I would probably have done this if I were them. Huge things like new wheelsets, reconditioned power units and what not are all the new owners’ problem.

It depends on the deal done, leasing works both ways. Any leasing company will factor in the fact that they are 60 year old assets with a load of potential reliability issues. Put in all the availability clauses and penalties you like but ultimately the person who owns the loco will factor this in to the leasing charges back to DRS.

 

[D365]

It depends on the deal done, leasing works both ways. Any leasing company will factor in the fact that they are 60 year old assets with a load of potential reliability issues. Put in all the availability clauses and penalties you like but ultimately the person who owns the loco will factor this in to the leasing charges back to DRS.

The 37/4s, owing to their use on passenger trains in the last decade, have been well looked after. Also worth noting that they are due to have ETCS fitted.

 

[Skymonster]

How do DRS intend to their drivers to maintain a competency on traction they don't own ? Are they likely to stable a few on Kingmoor or Gresty so that DRS staff can have a refresh on them before or after work ?

I wonder how much trouble these things would be storing up for Rosco looking to purchase them for leasing back. Who does the maintenance and repairs and more importantly who buys the new wheels ?

DRS is seeking a wet lease, which implies the new owners will do the maintenance and provide the train crews.

 

[43301]

DRS is seeking a wet lease, which implies the new owners will do the maintenance and provide the train crews.

It implies that the owners will do the maintenance, but train crews are not normally part of a lease.

 

[M-Train]

It implies that the owners will do the maintenance, but train crews are not normally part of a lease.

Is there a difference between aviation and rail understandings of what wet-leasing is? In the former case, the owner usually provides the flight crews.

 

[43096]

Is there a difference between aviation and rail understandings of what wet-leasing is? In the former case, the owner usually provides the flight crews.

Yes. Normally such terms in rail leasing only apply to the train itself, not the crew.

In general terms, the rail industry works as:
- dry lease; operator responsible for all maintenance
- soggy lease; maintenance split with (normally) the operator responsible for day-to-day maintenance and the owner doing the heavy maintenance (level 5 work in BR terms)
- wet lease; owner responsible for all maintenance

 

[NIRCLASS80]

37 218 certainly appears alive and well passing through Wem Shropshire yesterday.

 

[D365]

I realise that condition plays a part, but nevertheless I'm a bit surprised that they've recently sold some /4s rather than standardising and keeping 10 the same for this sale and leaseback plan.

I'm not sure about 405, but 409 was non-standard in various regards.

 

[Trainspotter43]

I'm not sure about 405, but 409 was non-standard in various regards.

I think this leaseback plan is quite smart as DRS no longer has to pay maintenance costs associated and get guaranteed locomotives when needed for certain RHTT duties and can still retain them for other duties like Charters or Engineering trains. I mean I’m just a younger enthusiast so I may be wrong as I’m not knowledgeable about these things so maybe I should just stay out of these types of conversations as they’re out of my league

 

[sprinterguy]

37 218 certainly appears alive and well passing through Wem Shropshire yesterday.

Makes me feel old to realise that this repaint into original DRS livery, now over twenty five years old, can be considered a 'heritage' scheme! That's been nicely done.

 

[Wolfie]

It depends on the deal done, leasing works both ways. Any leasing company will factor in the fact that they are 60 year old assets with a load of potential reliability issues. Put in all the availability clauses and penalties you like but ultimately the person who owns the loco will factor this in to the leasing charges back to DRS.

Absolutely plus the sum raised in the sale will be low given the limited flexibility that the new owners will have. I wouldn't be surprised if it is pretty much scrap value only.

 

[ExRes]

I think this leaseback plan is quite smart as DRS no longer has to pay maintenance costs associated and get guaranteed locomotives when needed for certain RHTT duties and can still retain them for other duties like Charters or Engineering trains. I mean I’m just a younger enthusiast so I may be wrong as I’m not knowledgeable about these things so maybe I should just stay out of these types of conversations as they’re out of my league

As far as I'm aware this plan has now been consigned to the dustbin, it was a good try by DRS but they obviously didn't realise there was nobody stupid enough to fall for it

 

[43096]

As far as I'm aware this plan has now been consigned to the dustbin, it was a good try by DRS but they obviously didn't realise there was nobody stupid enough to fall for it

Or that anyone who did bid understood the risks involved and priced accordingly, with that price being too high for DRS.

 

[fgwrich]

As far as I'm aware this plan has now been consigned to the dustbin, it was a good try by DRS but they obviously didn't realise there was nobody stupid enough to fall for it

Yep. The sale and leaseback arrangement for the /4s seems to be cancelled. Only one appears to have been sold on out of that list, that being 37602 at Eastleigh to HNRC.

 

[D365]

As far as I'm aware this plan has now been consigned to the dustbin, it was a good try by DRS but they obviously didn't realise there was nobody stupid enough to fall for it

"stupid" is the wrong word - there remains a distinct, albeit niche gap in the market for RA5 locomotives.