E-scooter & hoverboard ban on GTR

[jon0844]

It's going to be near impossible to stop people using e-scooters, so I'd love to see checks made to see if someone has a phone, laptop or tablet!

I can fully understand an organisation asking the questions (it may turn out that the data will be used to actually support e-scooters/bikes etc, on the basis that if you're not banning everything with a battery, what's the point?) but politics will play its role in ensuring nobody is ever told they can't take a phone on public transport.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Unless you specified at the time of purchase that taking the scooter with you was intrinsic to your journey, I doubt you cpuld win that argument. They are not stopping you traveling, and it is you the ticket was issued for.

I don't agree. Unless your starting position and destination are both with reasonable walking distance from stations, then its perfectly reasonable for someone to factor in a scooter to get them to/from the station when purchasing their ticket.
You don't buy a separate ticket for your scooter, even if you wanted to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's going to be near impossible to stop people using e-scooters

It'd be a start if the Police started confiscating them every time they saw one, as the law allows them to do! There seems to have been a conscious decision somewhere not to enforce the law on this matter unless the person concerned is also doing something else wrong. They're basically everywhere.

 

[najaB]

I don't agree. Unless your starting position and destination are both with reasonable walking distance from stations, then its perfectly reasonable for someone to factor in a scooter to get them to/from the station when purchasing their ticket.

And why would the TOC factor in an e-scooter rather than bike, push scooter, bus, taxi, lift, etc. ?

 

[43066]

It'd be a start if the Police started confiscating them every time they saw one, as the law allows them to do!

A bit difficult when some of them can travel at 30mph+, and will swerve into the nearest council estate as soon as they spot a uniform!

 

[island]

I don't agree. Unless your starting position and destination are both with reasonable walking distance from stations, then its perfectly reasonable for someone to factor in a scooter to get them to/from the station when purchasing their ticket.
You don't buy a separate ticket for your scooter, even if you wanted to.

I'm afraid that position doesn't stand up to any kind of serious consideration. The percentage of people who travel outside walking distance to/onward from a station by scooter is a rounding error compared to people using buses or cars.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The move towards electronic ticketing makes a phone and tablet ban impossible. A laptop can also, worst case scenario, be thrown out of an emergency window.

 

[island]

The move towards electronic ticketing makes a phone and tablet ban impossible. A laptop can also, worst case scenario, be thrown out of an emergency window.

I miss droplights

 

[43066]

I’m now seeing adverts for electric scooters amongst forum pop-ups… It must be as a result of contributing to this thread!

EDIT: apparently £1500 buys one that can do 55mph .

 

[Merle Haggard]

The move towards electronic ticketing makes a phone and tablet ban impossible. A laptop can also, worst case scenario, be thrown out of an emergency window.

I remember about 2010 there was a series of battery fires on the conductors' hand held devices. Where would you stop?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The move towards electronic ticketing makes a phone and tablet ban impossible. A laptop can also, worst case scenario, be thrown out of an emergency window.

You can probably pull the egress and boot anything out if needs be, but the thing is that an escooter battery is much larger so you may not be able to get anywhere near it to do so.

 

[najaB]

You can probably pull the egress and boot anything out if needs be, but the thing is that an escooter battery is much larger so you may not be able to get anywhere near it to do so.

This. Exactly.

A mobile phone battery typically contains ~5Wh of energy. An e-scooter or e-bike battery will easily be 200Wh or more.

 

[Surreytraveller]

And why would the TOC factor in an e-scooter rather than bike, push scooter, bus, taxi, lift, etc. ?

The passenger would factor it in when deciding how to travel

 

[najaB]

The passenger would factor it in when deciding how to travel

Yes. But your argument seemed to be that the passenger had a contractual right to have their e-scooter on the train based on the fact that the starting and ending stations were more than walking distance away from the railway stations. But why would that right exist, given that the passenger could just as easily ride a bike, use a push scooter, get a taxi, use the bus, etc. ?

 

[43066]

I don't agree. Unless your starting position and destination are both with reasonable walking distance from stations, then its perfectly reasonable for someone to factor in a scooter to get them to/from the station when purchasing their ticket.
You don't buy a separate ticket for your scooter, even if you wanted to.

So by that logic, if I ride a motorbike (or a horse) to the station, should I factor being able to take that with me on the train?

 

[jon0844]

So by that logic, if I ride a motorbike (or a horse) to the station, should I factor being able to take that with me on the train?

I think we've seen examples of people trying both!

 

[Llanigraham]

It'd be a start if the Police started confiscating them every time they saw one, as the law allows them to do! There seems to have been a conscious decision somewhere not to enforce the law on this matter unless the person concerned is also doing something else wrong. They're basically everywhere.

I know of 4 Forces in Wales that are doing exactly that.

 

[Ediswan]

I know of 4 Forces in Wales that are doing exactly that.

In other words, all of Wales.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know of 4 Forces in Wales that are doing exactly that.

Good.

I suppose half of the issue is that I can go weeks without even seeing a Police car...

 

[Meerkat]

Good.

I suppose half of the issue is that I can go weeks without even seeing a Police car...

I somehow doubt that unless you don’t leave the house!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I somehow doubt that unless you don’t leave the house!

Genuinely don't see them often in MK.

 

[TPO]

Just had a guy get kicked off a tpe service from York to saltburn for having an e scooter, which apparently is not permitted due to its battery. Is this a national policy on all operators now?

Saw a TfW poster today which suggests e-scooters are banned on their trains (it was at a station- Chepstow I think- and I was on a train stopping there so could only see the big icons, not read the small print, but the meaning of the icons was clear!).

This. Exactly.

A mobile phone battery typically contains ~5Wh of energy. An e-scooter or e-bike battery will easily be 200Wh or more.

This

The scale is different, as is the QC and sophistication of the charge/cell balance circuitry.

Also remember, big lithium batteries are made by joining up lots of little cells, so as they get bigger, quality of the wiring and balancing of the individual cells gets much more challenging.

TPO

 

[ChrisC]

It'd be a start if the Police started confiscating them every time they saw one, as the law allows them to do! There seems to have been a conscious decision somewhere not to enforce the law on this matter unless the person concerned is also doing something else wrong. They're basically everywhere.

I have never really understood, as it is illegal to ride them in public places, why the police seem to be ignoring this in many areas. Whenever I go into the centre of Nottingham I always see a lots of them whizzing around the pedestrianised shopping areas and the Market Square. If I see them every time I’m in the city why aren‘t the police also seeing them and confiscating them? Even if the police just had a week long campaign to do something I’m sure it would have an impact. Also when I’m in the city centre there seems to be a very large number of cyclists also in the pedestrianised areas. They cycle through these areas at speed weaving through crowds of people. I’ve had several near misses when I’ve been walking through the city centre.

 

[43066]

I have never really understood, as it is illegal to ride them in public places, why the police seem to be ignoring this in many areas. Whenever I go into the centre of Nottingham I always see a lots of them whizzing around the pedestrianised shopping areas and the Market Square. If I see them every time I’m in the city why aren‘t the police also seeing them and confiscating them? Even if the police just had a week long campaign to do something I’m sure it would have an impact. Also when I’m in the city centre there seems to be a very large number of cyclists also in the pedestrianised areas. They cycle through these areas at speed weaving through crowds of people. I’ve had several near misses when I’ve been walking through the city centre.

You could say the same about other behaviours, most notably weed smoking, which is so commonly done in plain sight that it’s de facto legalised these days.

I tend to agree that either the law should be enforced properly, or things should be legalised. Open acceptance of law breaking gives an unfortunate impression of a lawless society which is unwilling to police its own rules.

That said, I have had far more near misses from cyclists jumping red lights, riding on the pavement etc., both bigger problems than e-scooters, which are also openly tolerated.

 

[al78]

You could say the same about other behaviours, most notably weed smoking, which is so commonly done in plain sight that it’s de facto legalised these days.

I tend to agree that either the law should be enforced properly, or things should be legalised. Open acceptance of law breaking gives an unfortunate impression of a lawless society which is unwilling to police its own rules.

After over a decade of austerity and repeated cuts to public services, the police don't have the time or resources to deal with the minor crimes, and they occasionally don't deal with the serious ones either.

The UK must be a good place to take up career burglary. With the number of people rammed onto the roads over the Easter weekend and Dover harbour, there must be swathes of empty housing estates in some places where a burglar could carry out their activities unhindered.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Sorry if it’s already been mentioned but GWR are banning E-scooters from the new timetable.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I have never really understood, as it is illegal to ride them in public places, why the police seem to be ignoring this in many areas. Whenever I go into the centre of Nottingham I always see a lots of them whizzing around the pedestrianised shopping areas and the Market Square. If I see them every time I’m in the city why aren‘t the police also seeing them and confiscating them? Even if the police just had a week long campaign to do something I’m sure it would have an impact. Also when I’m in the city centre there seems to be a very large number of cyclists also in the pedestrianised areas. They cycle through these areas at speed weaving through crowds of people. I’ve had several near misses when I’ve been walking through the city centre.

Nottingham is one of the 50 or so areas participating in the DfT authorised e-scooter rental trials.

 

[ChrisC]

Nottingham is one of the 50 or so areas participating in the DfT authorised e-scooter rental trials.

I’m very aware of that and there’s always many of the yellow rental e-scooters to be seen at various points around the city. The scooters I was referring to are not the legal yellow ones that are part of the DfT scheme. Every time I go into Nottingham City Centre I see numerous people on illegal scooters riding around the city centre often in a dangerous and irresponsible way.

 

[BenS123]

Indeed, I live in Bournemouth which has the DfT authorised 'beryl' scooters but I still see so many non-beryl scooters around. Especially dangerous in the busy seafront area as during the summer months beryl scooters will slow down automatically on the seafront to keep pedestrians safe but non-beryl scooters won't

 

[philthetube]

CS are a bit of a special case. Fire regs are tighter on sleeper trains because people are asleep so may not notice a fire developing.

However, they did climb down from a ban, they are now permitted but only if the battery has an isolator switch (which does rule out some integrated designs like VanMoofs).



I think the thing is that a phone is quite small and can be chucked out of the window or (in the case of aircraft) put in a fireproof box to burn out. An e-bike battery is much bigger.

Then you have EVs. I'd not like an integrated garage (well, I'd be happy to have one as a junk store, but not to park a car in it) because of the fire risk, though I might do if I'd fitted sprinklers. I'd definitely not park an EV in one under any circumstances, and might be nervous of a first floor flat with underground parking where there might be EVs. (These should be fire-safe, but Grenfell has highlighted lots of deficiencies in such things).

The move towards electronic ticketing makes a phone and tablet ban impossible. A laptop can also, worst case scenario, be thrown out of an emergency window.

This. Exactly.

A mobile phone battery typically contains ~5Wh of energy. An e-scooter or e-bike battery will easily be 200Wh or more.

Get a burning battery on a mobile phone and you are not going to be able to throw it through a window, the heat will prevent that, if immediately you get the first bit of smoke you smash the train window and throw it ok, but no one without specialist knowledge is going to do that.

These things are hot and nasty.