notadriver
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Just thought I'd slip this in. Driving a coach : £60 (12 hour shift). Driving a train. £225 (9 hour shift) 
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So coach driving is exempt from the minimum wage?
notadriver
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It's paid as a per day rate so god knows
God does know, and so do I. However it's paid, it's less than the minimum wage. Just because it's called a shift rate, or daily rate, or annual salary doesn't mean that the pay divided by the number of hours worked can be less than £6.19. Unless you are in the armed forces like me...
No, you're quite correct (if a little on the low side
).It is indeed one of the reasons for (what seems like) a mass exodus from certain 'green' companies and German state owned operators but is by far not the only (or in my case, the main) reason for moving.
They're a good company with great management in the correct positions and locations.
They have a plan and employees are encouraged to actively take part for the greater good of all.
It's no accident that they're bidding for and winning long-term lucrative contracts.
PM me for more corporate propaganda
Vive la difference...
Just thought I'd slip this in. Driving a coach : £60 (12 hour shift). Driving a train. £225 (9 hour shift)
£5ph? Really!?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Your right. Certain northern depots were offered the choice of a higher basic but with more working hours.
The standard contract is for a 35hr week at about 51k
notadriver
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I think they can get around it by only paying for hours driven. Only half of the 12 hours is actually wheel turning time.
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Agreed, my mate drives local buses and we had this conversation a few weeks ago. I asked him how much he was on and he said he takes home about £400/week incl O/Time and weekend work.
I asked why he didn't work on the coaches to earn more and his reply was 'because they're lucky to earn £60/day' and the continental drivers often run trips while they're over there to make up the money, must admit I was shocked but this was verified by another mates dad who went to Eastbourne two weeks ago on holiday, the coach driver told him he was on £55 /day driving up and down the M6 all day :roll:
NI 271
Member
I went on the buses in 1992, and always quite fancied driving coaches. Until I discovered what they were earning, which even back then was a pittance compared to what stage carriage drivers were on. In the early-mid 2000s, when I did a lot of rail replacement coach driving (but for a stage carriage operator, we had coaches for private hire work) I was always very careful not to talk about money, because I was working for probably 2½-3 times what most coach companies were paying their staff for exactly the same work (I was no longer working as a driver, and was getting the equivalent of my usual hourly rate, and was paid clock to clock on top).
High Dyke
Established Member
A check of the RMT site shows this, where they have representation:
(Pay & Conditions database is in the Members Area).
As a comparison bus drivers at major firms are:
Some data may not be up to date. However it does show the disparity between both modes of public transport, and even amongst various individual companies.
As a matter of interest in 2000 i actually earned less than £9,000 at the end of the financial year driving for a bus company whereas the basic for a crossing keeper on the railway at the time started at just over £10,000
(Pay & Conditions database is in the Members Area).
Code:
C2C:
Driver £30438.00 pa £37605.00 pa
Arriva Trains Wales:
Driver £40682.00 pa
Driving Instructor (ex Central) £47473.00 pa
Chiltern Trains:
Trainee Drvr(new ent £20734.00 pa
Tr Drvr(pass scheme2 £22496.00 pa
Driver £42622.00 pa
Instructor Driver £44252.00 pa
Snr Driving Instruct £45453.00 pa
Cross Country:
Driver (Ex Virgin Cross Country) £51079.00 pa
Trainee Driver (ex Central) £23650.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver (ex Central) £31771.00 pa
Driver (ex Central) £51079.00 pa
Driver Instructor (ex Central) £42480.00 pa
East Coast:
Traincrew - Drivers £52696.00 pa
Trainee Driver 'A' - ex TOC new entrant £44266.00 pa
Trainee Driver 'A' - after 16 weeks £52696.00 pa
Trainee Driver 'B' - new entrant £23691.00 pa
Trainee Driver 'B' - passed Rules/Handling/Traction £32525.00 pa
East Midlands Trains:
Trainee Driver (ex Central) £23295.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver (ex Central) £31358.00 pa
Driver (ex Central) £41808.00 pa
Driver Instructor (ex Central) £41926.00 pa
Intercity Driver £42924.00 pa
FCC:
Train Driver ex T/L £41751.00 pa
1st Year Driver ex T/L £36534.00 pa
Depot Driver at 01/07/2007 ex T/L £35825.00 pa
Depot Driver post 01/07/2007 ex T/L £33378.00 pa
Trainee Driver at 01/07/2007 ex T/L £23122.00 pa
Trainee Driver post 01/07/2007 ex T/L £22122.00 pa
Grand Central:
Driver £45824.00 pa
London Midland:
Trainee Driver (ex Central staff) £23834.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver (ex Central staff) £32738.00 pa
Driver (ex Central staff) £43649.00 pa
LOROL:
Trainee Driver £22872.00 pa
1st Year Driver £38811.00 pa
Driver £50316.00 pa
Instructor Driver £52473.00 pa
Merseyrail:
Leading Driver £41040.00 pa
Driver £39401.00 pa
Non Passenger Driver £27560.00 pa
Relief Driver £30249.00 pa
Trainee Driver New entrant £19353.00 pa
Northern:
Trainee Driver (East) £19686.00 pa
1st Year Driver (East) £32341.00 pa
2nd Year Driver (East) £35726.00 pa
Experienced Driver (Mentor Driver) (East) £44198.00 pa
Driver Instructor (East) £45152.00 pa
ScotRail:
Driver £40498.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver £31985.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver after 6 months £34157.00 pa
Newly Qualified Driver after 9 months £36688.00 pa
Operations Depot Driver (year 1) £24336.00 pa
Operations Depot Driver (Year 2) £24901.00 pa
Trainee Driver £23016.00 pa
Accommodated Depot Driver £33266.00 pa
Accommodated Driver (Floor Salary) £31292.00 pa
Southeastern:
Driver Instructor £42393.00 pa
Driver Instructor & Supplement £45568.00 pa
High Speed Train Driver £42393.00 pa
High Speed Train Driver & Supplement £45568.00 pa
Classic Train Driver £42393.00 pa
Driver 1st Year £36495.00 pa
Shunter Driver £37224.00 pa
Trainee Driver Level 1 £18678.00 pa
Trainee Driver Level 2 £22889.00 pa
Southern:
Shunter /Driver (shift) (Depot Conciliation Grades) £26198.00 pa
Trainee Shunter/Driver (shift) (Depot Conciliation Grades) £24136.00 pa
Driver (basic rate) £42516.00 paAs a comparison bus drivers at major firms are:
Code:
First Devon & Cornwall:
Driver £8.80 ph
Driver (Training Rate) £6.33 ph
Driver (Starter Rate) First 6 months £7.67 ph
Driver (Intermediate Rate) Months 7-12 £8.18 ph
First Hampshire & Dorset:
Driver Probation £7.30 ph
Driver Intermediate £7.96 ph
Driver Substantive £8.74 ph
Driver Protected A £9.48 ph
Stagecoach in Lincolnshire:
Trainee Driver £7.00 ph
Grade 1 & Seasonal Driver £8.00 ph
Grade 2 Driver £8.70 ph
Grade 3 Driver £9.05 ph
Stagecoach North West:
Conventional Driver £9.30 ph
Minibus Driver £8.91 ph
New Starter (first 12 months) £8.50 phSome data may not be up to date. However it does show the disparity between both modes of public transport, and even amongst various individual companies.
As a matter of interest in 2000 i actually earned less than £9,000 at the end of the financial year driving for a bus company whereas the basic for a crossing keeper on the railway at the time started at just over £10,000
SkinnyDave
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XC Drivers are now on £55k Per annum excluding Sundays, if ou do your Rostered Sundays only how much would they end up earning a year?
That list looks a fair bit out of date-certainly FCC and southern are on higher and have been for a few years.
Plus FCC no longer have a first year rate-I think that went in a pay deal a few years back.
High Dyke
Established Member
I did include the disclaimer. Obviously some pay structures are part of deal that may be spread over several years; and current TOC staff will know better than I. It isn't meant to be an end all information, but it does give people a good idea of the disparity amongst the transport industry.
notadriver
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Well if you're going to show disparity in the transport industry maybe the salaries of aircraft pilots should be included as a comparison?
Wasn't having a dig at you, was just pointing a couple of corrections out.
The rail industry will always be higher paid as its not as easy to get work in due to the training and qualifications required which can only be obtained once in usually. Anyone who can drive a car will know the Highway Code and can therefore just learn the extra bits needed to drive buses (and before people start I'm not suggesting that driving a bus is the same as a car but just pointing out that the road & rules are the same as a car). The railways are nothing like the roads-completely different signalling systems, completely different rules, a more dangerous environment which isn't as reliant on common sense as the roads but stuff you need to learn (if you run around the motorway you may get run over but won't get electrocuted or get your foot trapped in points).
Therefore the bus industry can train someone up in a fraction of the time and therefore can pay them less-if you have a car driving license then you already know a good chunk if what you need to know. Not the case on trains.
Its okay having a sense of humour but you must realise that you need to put a footnote on all your posts where humour is used so the MODs dont get moaning PMs about it, as I have started doing.
Better still do not use humour unless absolutely essential, or your post is directed at others who are also lucky enough to possess a sense of humour/ work in the industry and understand the meaning of "banter".
Please note this post is for information purposes only and does not in any way insinuate that some people are unfortunate enough to be bereft of a sense of humour.
It is also not necessary to be "in the industry" to possess a sense of humour!
That about covers it.
I think that does about cover it, although I must point out this post does not constitute advice.
Anyway must get back to my groaning PM inbox!
notadriver
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100% agreed. Also a bus usually carries less than 100 passengers and speeds involved will be a maximum of 62 mph in a vehicle not weighing more than 25 tons fully loaded.
PeteH
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Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
I'm sure one will be along in a minute, to explain why it's a better job than belting along the m1, ANY SECOND NOW!
The following is basic salary for fully qualified drivers as of April 2013
1, Arriva Cross Country £53,171.00
2, LOROL £52,394.00
3, Virgin Trains £52,008.00
4, Eurostar £51,660.00
5, East Coast Trains £50,815.00
6, GB RailFrieght £48,119.00
7, DRS £46,830.00
8, FreightLiner HH £46,400.00
9, Chiltern £46,334.00
10, FGW HSS £45,894.00
11, Grand Central £45,823.00
12, First Hull Trains £45,000.00
13, SE HS1 £44,491.00
14, FCC £44,471.00
15, Heathrow Express £44,393.00
16, SouthEastern £43,999.00
17, FTPE £43,960.00
18, London Midland £43,496.00
19, South West Trains £43,417.00
20, C2C £42,571.00
21, Southern £42,516.00
22, EMT £42,345.00
23, FGW £42,333.00
24 Northern Rail East £41,339.00
24, Northen Rail West £41,339.00
25, Great Anglia £41,273.00
26 Arriva Trains Wales £41,150.00
27, DB Schenker £41,000.00
28, Eurotunnel £40,500.00
29, Mersey Rail £39,401.00
30, First Scotrail £39,204.00
31, FL £38,750.00
32, Island Line £36,462.00
1, Arriva Cross Country £53,171.00
2, LOROL £52,394.00
3, Virgin Trains £52,008.00
4, Eurostar £51,660.00
5, East Coast Trains £50,815.00
6, GB RailFrieght £48,119.00
7, DRS £46,830.00
8, FreightLiner HH £46,400.00
9, Chiltern £46,334.00
10, FGW HSS £45,894.00
11, Grand Central £45,823.00
12, First Hull Trains £45,000.00
13, SE HS1 £44,491.00
14, FCC £44,471.00
15, Heathrow Express £44,393.00
16, SouthEastern £43,999.00
17, FTPE £43,960.00
18, London Midland £43,496.00
19, South West Trains £43,417.00
20, C2C £42,571.00
21, Southern £42,516.00
22, EMT £42,345.00
23, FGW £42,333.00
24 Northern Rail East £41,339.00
24, Northen Rail West £41,339.00
25, Great Anglia £41,273.00
26 Arriva Trains Wales £41,150.00
27, DB Schenker £41,000.00
28, Eurotunnel £40,500.00
29, Mersey Rail £39,401.00
30, First Scotrail £39,204.00
31, FL £38,750.00
32, Island Line £36,462.00
Silv1983
Member
Well the 2 Northern Salaries are wrong! West is £41694 and East is over £44k.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm sure one will be along in a minute, to explain why it's a better job than belting along the m1, ANY SECOND NOW!
notadriver
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I'm sure one will be along in a minute, to explain why it's a better job than belting along the m1, ANY SECOND NOW!
The thing is some might say not having to deal with the public is a bonus and in most cases a shunter or cleaner gets the same or nearly as much as a coach driver.
May I point out that this does not say what conditions you have under the various TOC's. For GA Sundays and Bank Holidays are not part of the working week whereas I believe they are for East Coast, ie you get extra money at premium rate for working Sundays and Bank Holidays whereas they are part of your normal salary for other TOC's. Plus conditions regarding RDW, cover and spare turns vary from TOC to TOC. Base salary is not the be all and end all as a lot of drivers have sold their conditions for a higher base salary!
#1 driver
Member
£43260 now .
35 hour week average , 1395 hours for the year .
I worked 142 days last year !
Kneedown
Established Member
EMT basic is now £43,500 for all fully qualified Mainline/Connect Drivers.
Add 2k pa for Instructor, or Mentor when engaged in instructing.
4 day week, Sundays outside. Plenty of RDW if you want it, but being relatively low maintenance i don't tend to do many.
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I thought it was more than 1395 hours at schenker? Its Around 1568 hours at heavy haul, saying that in my last year with EWS before i left I was well under my contract along with most of the depot, I was never there, it was something silly the number of days I actually drove a train! Do any guys bust there hours at schenker anymore?£43260 now .
35 hour week average , 1395 hours for the year .
I worked 142 days last year !
#1 driver
Member
depends which depot !
some bust , some don't .
yeah I got a typo there , it's 1595 !
some bust , some don't .
yeah I got a typo there , it's 1595 !
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