East Coast to hire two Class 90s?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Class86Fan, 22 Feb 2013.

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  1. Crossforth

    Crossforth Established Member

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    I should have been cleaner on only some of it was 140mph like not all is 125mph today but I shall clarify with my work colleague about the 140mph as to what he used to do when working in that area of the country.
     
  2. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    People on here have claimed before that they have been on trains doing 140 as they checked their gps etc but passenger trains have never travelled above 125 on the ECML. Not even to make up time if running late. As others have said, it was cleared for 140 for testing.

    Ill check my sectional appendix later but I'm pretty sure that the lines from peterbourgh to stoke are listed as 125 in there anyway so the 140 was specially authorised per train.
     
  3. cambsy

    cambsy On Moderation

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    The 135-140 mph running on East Coast has been reliably logged in Railway Magazine Practice and Performance, it was never official but was still done, even heard of Hst's doing it when first came out down stoke Bank.
     
  4. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Yep, just checked the sectional appendix and its 125 on both the up and down fast from eastfields all the way to stoke, no 140 in the SA
     
  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    no, no it wasn't. There was a section cleared for 140mph running for empty testing. Service trains were ( and still are ) limited to 125 mph.

    no, no it wasn't :roll:
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    anyway regardless of all the wibble - who is going to drive them?
     
  6. captainbigun

    captainbigun Member

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    91s lost their 140mph ability when the safety case was updated following HGR (when they were renumbered as /1s).
     
  7. ash39

    ash39 Established Member

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    Also not true, if you look at the data panel anyway. Still says 140mph.

    Largely irrelevant anyway as they won't ever run at 140mph.
     
  8. 43167

    43167 Member

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    The idea was been considered not too long ago, but NR said no because of the 90's maximum speed of 110mph.
     
  9. 90019

    90019 Established Member

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    I saw the ex-EMT set yesterday and it had an EC livery powercar on one end and an NX livery one on the other, so the EMT livery powercars must be elsewhere.
     
  10. captainbigun

    captainbigun Member

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    Think I'll go with the safety case. 125.
     
  11. AndrewP

    AndrewP Member

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    Would the pretendalino be available and an option?
     
  12. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    Doubt it as its a 110mph set and the ECML is a 125mph railway even though 90s I believe kept time easily on the Leeds services when in use and despite my personal view that they ought to be used on the Newark Northgate services and potentially the York services.
     
  13. Max

    Max Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm fairly sure the EMT liveried powercars were repainted into EC colors when they were re-engined with MTUs.
     
  14. gimmea50anyday

    gimmea50anyday Established Member

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    There are at least two diagrams where a set does York and Leeds shuttles all day, one a hst and one mk4 set
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    The EC emt set uses power cars from the EC pool, so any power car will happily work with the set, there is a minor issue with driver guard communication that train crew have to be aware of, off memory i think its to do with selective door opening, but it doesn't affect running of the train. Coach B has a partial great western interior I guess they used to trial the seats. Wether there are any plans to refurb the set or hand it back anyime soon I don't know.
     
  15. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    Surely some services, like the (now southbound-only) Flying Scotsman, are timed for INTERCITY 225s, which accelerate quicker than an INTERCITY 125? Simarly, the Aberdeen and Inverness service would be in trobble if an IC225 ended up on one. The diagrams might all include long-distance runs, but it can't be 'one big fleet of EC stock'.

    Assuming that's a current sectional appendix it would say 125mph wouldn't it. I think we all agree that 125mph is the current limit, and has been for some time. The question is whether, at the time of the early testing and introduction into passenger service, they were ever permitted to do 140 in passenger service for a short time, even if it was just one or two trains given special permission to do so due to late running.

    I took a close-up photograph of the info-sticker on the 'Battle Of Britain Memorial Flight' class 91 (91110 I think) when it was at Railfest in NRM York. It says 140mph. That suggests to me that they haven't ever done anything to them that they think will compromise the 140mph ability, but maybe they haven't done the testing to prove it's still ok. There's no need for it right now anyhow, not until ETCS (or other cab-signalling system) is installed.

    Both the ECML and the GWML (the latter being the best place to cascade them to if they are withdrawn from the ECML, in my opinion) are scheduled to have ERTMS installed. If the IC225s are kept running (and I really hope they are, if IC125s can be life-entended until 2035 (60 years old I think that'd make them) then lets have the same with the IC225s) they may well finally get the chance to run at 140mph again.
     
  16. ryan125hst

    ryan125hst Member

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    It can't be too hard to train East Coast drivers to drive them can it? They are, after all, very similar to the Class 91's. Besides, 90's have been used on the ECML before.

    Could the Class 90's be upgraded to run at 125 mph at a reasonable cost? It is only 15 mph more after all.

    I didn't realise East Coast or East Midland Trains HST's had SDO. I thought it was only First Great Western's HST's that it has been fitted to.
     
  17. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    They were cleared for 140 mph empty testing, I dont think they ran at that speed in service.

    I tihnk you are confusing yourself. The safety case isn't anything physical on the locomotive, it is simply legal documentary permission to operate at that speed. The locomotive, in theory, could still run at that speed, it just isn't allowed.
     
  18. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The FGW interior is due to the sets interior being altered to being closer to what East Coast have in their HSTs. EC have more seats so they move around the IC70s in most of the intermediate coaches and then filled the empty space that had been created in coach B with FGW Grammar seats. Either way coach B go it partial interior a long time after the FGW refurbs.

    The set 'belongs' to East Coast now.
     
  19. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    I am sure it cant be, other than the pointless cost and wasted time of everyone involved for something that is unlikely to happen any time soon.:roll:
     
  20. ryan125hst

    ryan125hst Member

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    What is actually involved in a safety case and how would they be able to get permission to run at 140 mph when ERTMS is fitted (if they choose to). I'm guessing it's a long and expensive process (isn't everything on the railway! :roll:)
     
  21. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The IC225s are never going to be used at 140mph in service and indeed I doubt the ECML will ever be a 140mph railway. There simply isn't the capacity for it. How do you propose to path 140mph services around 100mph commuter trains, 100mph inter-regional trains, 125mph cross-country services, 75-100mph local services and 60mph freight services? The ECML will not, even with ERTMS, be a 140mph railway unless you either drastically reduce the number of non-140mph services using the route or drastically reduce the number of long distance services you want to travel at 140mph.
     
  22. Bridge189

    Bridge189 Member

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    A additional EMT power car is on loan to EC,

    The 91s are still techically capable of 140mph (as stated on the side of hem) contrary to popular rumour that they were modified/re-geared to 125 running during the mallard job, never happened however as most others have pointed out its very unlikely they will ever do routine in service 140 running.
     
  23. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that there's one big pool of trains - obviously split into diesel and electric, but AFAIK the Flying Scotsman diagram arriving in London around 10:00 then forms a Leeds service, it's not kept on Edinburgh services.

    However on EMT the "Derby" arrivals in London form northbound "Derby" services (and the same with "Nottingham" ones).

    Maybe at the next rejigging of the timetable they could separate them so that a fast accelerating 110mph train could keep pace, but that's probably a fairly trivial thing in the grand scheme of things.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Its frustrating that EMT have been so short of DMUs for local/ middle distance services, yet have "given" one HST set to EC and are now loaning a second one. Especially as XC aren't using their HSTs much either...
     
  24. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It's only a power car not a full set.
     
  25. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Ah, apologies. I still think that EMT were given an unbalanced fleet though, but that's going off topic.
     
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