East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

[Qwerty133]

EMT didn't have a say in the stock they were handed when their franchise started though, that was a DfT decision based on out of date data from Central Trains, which is the same reason Liverpool to Norwich had a crowding issue for years at the start at the franchise. Part of the issue I dare say is a consequence of the stations being operated by EMT but served only by XC, but EMT will get a commission on tickets sold by their staff and TVMs. If XC are concerned about revenue protection from those stations, it's within their right to have more RPIs on their trains, it has very little to do with EMT except your personal agenda against them.

So you think it acceptable that EMT has enabled a culture whereby a significant number of their staff consistently fail to do the basics of their job and that the responsibility for regaining ticket sales being lost from those staff neglecting to do their job should be placed on XC? There is absolutely no point in paying staff to man ticket barriers if their only response to ticketless passengers is to let them through without paying or even being directed towards the ticket office or one of several TVMs available.

 

[class26]

So you think it acceptable that EMT has enabled a culture whereby a significant number of their staff consistently fail to do the basics of their job and that the responsibility for regaining ticket sales being lost from those staff neglecting to do their job should be placed on XC? There is absolutely no point in paying staff to man ticket barriers if their only response to ticketless passengers is to let them through without paying or even being directed towards the ticket office or one of several TVMs available.

Not sure how relevant this is but living on one of the E Mids lines the times I and the wife get a free journey because the guard can`t be bothered to walk down the train is unbelievable. It is not just when the train is rammed either, it happens when half empty and must seriously distort pax figures. Only last week 16 boarded at my station and all (without ticket) got a free ride as there was no guard in sight yet he managed to dispatch the train then do his disappearing act. Its very common unfortunately

 

[Deltic1961]

Just found this thread. God help these poor people if Scotrail is anything to go by. Since they took over from First it's rapidly gone downhill.

don't the people who award these franchises check their performance in other areas or is that too clever?

 

[Jozhua]

Not sure how relevant this is but living on one of the E Mids lines the times I and the wife get a free journey because the guard can`t be bothered to walk down the train is unbelievable. It is not just when the train is rammed either, it happens when half empty and must seriously distort pax figures. Only last week 16 boarded at my station and all (without ticket) got a free ride as there was no guard in sight yet he managed to dispatch the train then do his disappearing act. Its very common unfortunately

I've had a similar experience too on the Matlock line. At Derby I've noticed the staff often making passengers Que 10 minutes plus behind the barriers to buy a ticket for the journey they've already done! The ticket machines are often broken at the stations along rural routes or only accept card or only accept cash. Apparently the ticket machines don't accept B-line cards either, whilst they can be used to purchase tickets on the train for a reduced fare.

Stations like Long Eaton also have quite poor ticket machine provision, especially at rush hour!

 

[SemaphoreSlim]

180's confirmed. Don't have all the details but ALL HST's to go by the end of the year....

 

[Glenn1969]

But have the DfT confirmed Abellio as the winner yet? I know Stagecoach requested a 2 week extension to the standstill period which takes it into May

 

[SemaphoreSlim]

No, not yet. But this deal for the 180's has been agreed irrespective of the operator. The decision to take the HST's off the MML by December 31st will stand whether its Abellio, Stagecoach or anybody else.

 

[Qwerty133]

I've had a similar experience too on the Matlock line. At Derby I've noticed the staff often making passengers Que 10 minutes plus behind the barriers to buy a ticket for the journey they've already done! The ticket machines are often broken at the stations along rural routes or only accept card or only accept cash. Apparently the ticket machines don't accept B-line cards either, whilst they can be used to purchase tickets on the train for a reduced fare.

Stations like Long Eaton also have quite poor ticket machine provision, especially at rush hour!

Glad to hear that the barrier staff at Derby are actually doing their job which is more than can be said for those at Leicester.

180's confirmed. Don't have all the details but ALL HST's to go by the end of the year....

Short of the Corby services being scrapped at a 153 shuttle running between Kettering and Corby connecting into a Nottingham and other reductions in service levels it is impossible for all of the HSTs to go this year as there simply isn't the necessary amount of stock being freed up.

 

[DanDaDriver]

No, not yet. But this deal for the 180's has been agreed irrespective of the operator. The decision to take the HST's off the MML by December 31st will stand whether its Abellio, Stagecoach or anybody else.

That’s a big deal if true. What’s your source? If you don’t mind me asking.

 

[SemaphoreSlim]

I'm not able to say I'm afraid Dan.

I'm also aware the numbers don't add up with available stock @Qwerty133

 

[Kettledrum]

No, not yet. But this deal for the 180's has been agreed irrespective of the operator. The decision to take the HST's off the MML by December 31st will stand whether its Abellio, Stagecoach or anybody else.

I've no direct personal experience of the 180's but based on everything I have read here, I am concerned that they would be a very poor replacement for the HST's in terms of:

- seating capacity
- passenger comfort ambiance
- reliability

In addition, the announcements have been subject to so much spin to give people the impression of "new trains",

Am I missing something?

 

[Qwerty133]

So EMT currently have 10 HST diagrams, realistically the freed up 180s cannot cover more than 3 of these at a push (and quite possibly 2 would be more realistic), I believe there is currently one doubled up meridian which could be split albeit at the expense of leaving passengers behind, and the hot spare could be done away with, so at the very least 5 diagrams will have to go. I believe one of the GC HST diagrams could be absorbed into the current 222 diagrams with only minor adjustments so that leaves at least 4 diagrams worth of services that will have to be eliminated. Getting rid of the Corby terminators and the services via Melton will free up 2/3 units which wouldn't be enough so it is likely that the slower Sheffield service would have to be cut back to Derby as well.
I also imagine it will cause bigger problems on Sundays on which the 7 coach 222s and their excessive first-class capacity are of little use on many services and EMT rarely have enough available TMs to run doubled up 222s other than during engineering works.

 

[SemaphoreSlim]

I'm not sure of the details as yet. It was only decided today and now the planning needs to commence as regards the way forward re diagrams.

 

[LowLevel]

Well hey, they've got to spread their wings in terms of burning gently in the evening breeze while their passengers look miserable on the side of the track I suppose. It's only fair.

They are the biggest missed opportunity of the early years of rail privatisation. Both 175 and 180 have a superb airy interior and ambience similar to a Mk3 coach with all the build quality of a 1980s Lada.

 

[DanDaDriver]

I'm not sure of the details as yet. It was only decided today and now the planning needs to commence as regards the way forward re diagrams.

Interesting times indeed.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I'm not sure of the details as yet. It was only decided today and now the planning needs to commence as regards the way forward re diagrams.

We're still in the standstill period, unless you have any proof I call shenanigans.

 

[SemaphoreSlim]

Call shenanigans all you'd like, you will see for yourself in time. As I have already said, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Abellio, it will happen regardless of the standstill period.

I was merely trying to share information that I KNOW to be true with those who are interested. I have no intention of potentially jeopardising my career through some egotistical desire to 'prove' myself to you or to anybody else.

 

[whhistle]

It is absolutely ridiculous that Narborough and Hinckley have no ticketing facilities for much of the day and often are left unstaffed during scheduled opening hours.

Two stations I've often wondered about as they seem odd balled with the EM franchise.

Not easy to barrier from what I can see, but I wonder if they added two or three machines, whether that would mean the end of those stations being staffed? I can see it being lumped in with Syston, Sielby and Barrow. South Wigston is already there having the bare minimum of "features".

Could the SFO make a station unstaffed if they provide machines without much hassle?

 

[whhistle]

I've noticed that, but I do still use TVMs primarily because I can produce a ticket from one much quicker than I can produce a ticket on a mobile because I don't need to prat about with a journey planner. The battery also can't run out.

That said, room in the market for someone to create an app for selling e-tickets just based on what you specify rather than a planner?

Or rather a machine that simply asks you a bunch of questions one at a time?

1: Are you travelling today (yes/no)
1.5: What date are you travelling? (if no selected above)
2: Where are you travelling to? (user to type in, brings up list of matches)
3: Single or return?
3.5: Are you returning today? (yes/no)
4: Are you leaving X station between X time and X time? (if yes selected above)
4.5: Which operator would you like to travel with? (if more than one is available)
5: Select your ticket (list of anytime/off-peak/first class options presented)

I also think machines should run the same software in the same way too.
Brand them different, have different logos and such but if they all work in the same way, the public will be able to use them more easily wherever they are.

 

[yorksrob]

180's confirmed. Don't have all the details but ALL HST's to go by the end of the year....

If true, It would be hard to think of a more cretinous decision on the modern railway.

Proof if need be that the DfT should be dissolved once and for all.

 

[whhistle]

There is absolutely no point in paying staff to man ticket barriers if their only response to ticketless passengers is to let them through without paying or even being directed towards the ticket office or one of several TVMs available.

I also find Leicester an odd station.
Last time I was there, they have a ticket booth on the platform side of the barriers but it wasn't open. Why not?

There are unmanned barriers by the car park, a main set of barriers and another set round the corner near the lifts. I wonder if a rebuild would sort all this out?

Although allowing people through the barriers and expecting them to take themselves to the ticket office isn't going to work.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not able to say I'm afraid Dan.

I'm also aware the numbers don't add up with available stock @Qwerty133

It gets better

This is what modern railway management boils down to. Disadvantaging passengers to meet arbitrary deadlines so that the Government can save face.

 

[whhistle]

Just found this thread. God help these poor people if Scotrail is anything to go by. Since they took over from First it's rapidly gone downhill.

don't the people who award these franchises check their performance in other areas or is that too clever?

I suppose it depends who runs the show.
There they get the mobilization team from will depend very much on how the company is run.

 

[yorksrob]

If this is going to end up with two years of short forms, I hope the press gets involved and creates a lot of embarrassment for the powers that be.

 

[whhistle]

I was merely trying to share information that I KNOW to be true with those who are interested. I have no intention of potentially jeopardising my career through some egotistical desire to 'prove' myself to you or to anybody else.

Better not to say anything at all then.

It's not that difficult (especially as a new user) to leak information without worrying about your career.
It's not exactly national secrets being leaked to Russia is it!

 

[43074]

No, not yet. But this deal for the 180's has been agreed irrespective of the operator. The decision to take the HST's off the MML by December 31st will stand whether its Abellio, Stagecoach or anybody else.

The 180s aren't available until next year anyway though? That can't be taken with anything other than a pinch of salt given that you haven't provided a source and it is completely impractical in any case; Hull Trains' 802s haven't even begun testing yet.

 

[yorksrob]

The 180s aren't available until next year anyway though? That can't be taken with anything other than a pinch of salt given that you haven't provided a source and it is completely impractical in any case; Hull Trains' 802s haven't even begun testing yet.

Good point. This could all be Scotch mist for all we know.

 

[Killingworth]

Good point. This could all be Scotch mist for all we know.

Abellio are taking over a franchise that has been unable to properly plan ahead for so long that they inevitably face a difficult start. Much of the current rolling stock needs to go and brand new can't come for 3 or 4 years.

Saddling Abellio with the introduction of 180s doesn't auger well for that period if Hull Trains recent experience with them is likely to be repeated.

My understanding was that East Midlands had received assurance from the DfT that HSTs would be granted dispensation, the word derogation was specifically not used, until new stock was ready. Sounds like someone has realised that allowing such a dispensation for maybe 4 years was too long and the bullet has been bitten. Shame all the prevarication around electrification has brought us to this.

Stagecoach and Arriva may be better out of this as the good times look to be some time ahead.

 

[yorksrob]

Abellio are taking over a franchise that has been unable to properly plan ahead for so long that they inevitably face a difficult start. Much of the current rolling stock needs to go and brand new can't come for 3 or 4 years.

Saddling Abellio with the introduction of 180s doesn't auger well for that period if Hull Trains recent experience with them is likely to be repeated.

My understanding was that East Midlands had received assurance from the DfT that HSTs would be granted dispensation, the word derogation was specifically not used, until new stock was ready. Sounds like someone has realised that allowing such a dispensation for maybe 4 years was too long and the bullet has been bitten. Shame all the prevarication around electrification has brought us to this.

Stagecoach and Arriva may be better out of this as the good times look to be some time ahead.

Surely they must realise that this dreadful botch (if true) will be far worse than even a longer than expected derogation for the HST's ?

Plus, realistically four years would have been unlikely, with new trains coming in in 2022.

For those such as MP's that have agitated for this move, well done for screwing up.

 

[Aictos]

A lot of changes then, I don’t think it’s feasible to expect the HSTs to leave service by Dec 2019 as it takes time for replacement rolling stock so I would say it’s a fairly safe bet that the HSTs will stay on a extra year to Dec 2020, worse case Dec 2021.