I can just imagine the commentary for that tour:
"If you look to the left, ladies and gentlemen, you'll see Edinburgh Castle. And if you look to the front you'll see the tow truck that's pulling us along."
Sorry, couldn't resist it.
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Edinburgh Tour Operators: Bright Bus, Lothian (Majestic, Three Bridges) etc.
- Thread starter overthewater
- Start date
I can just imagine the commentary for that tour:
"If you look to the left, ladies and gentlemen, you'll see Edinburgh Castle. And if you look to the front you'll see the tow truck that's pulling us along."
Sorry, couldn't resist it.
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Jordan Adam
Established Member
First have purchased Dennis Tridents 17515 (LX51FNT) & 18497 (LX06AHD) from Stagecoach Highlands.
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Baileygirl
Member
First has registered "The City Tour " from 2nd August. The registration no. is the same as the A1. What is happening about the second tour which was promised?
SpeedbirdA350
Member
Slightly confused why they bought yet another 19 year old bus for the tour. Surely by now they'd know if they were serious about going in to this full time, and if so, would invest in some newer buses. Especially when we're about to go in to the LEZ, and yes, while it's been delayed, it's only by a couple of years. Although the bus probably cost hardly anything so it's little risk for big reward.
Perhaps this is because of the current climate? Lack of tourists would mean that they'd have a higher risk of running around with emptier buses.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Both were refitted fairly recently with Euro 4 Cummins ISB engines, of which there is a conversion pack to get them to Euro 6, so LEZ isn't an issue. They're in pretty good condition too, the 06 plate especially. The Orkney tour isn't running this year, hence why Stagecoach have sold them off early rather than having them waste space indoors at a depot for a year.
SpeedbirdA350
Member
Thanks for that update, I did not know about the update.
SpeedbirdA350
Member
I saw 3 BBT buses in a row, with less than 5 people that I could see in total on Monday. I only seen one Lothian in comparison and it did not do much better. Might be time of the day but it makes me wonder if BBT are taking a hit for no real reason given tourism is at a low right now given the current climate.
On Saturday I seen one that had a good load.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Originally the idea behind BBT from First's point of view was to break even while eating in to Lothians revenue which they've been successful in. Although i agree both services are clearly going to make making a loss at the moment and neither should really be running.
I think First actually hit a rare home run with Bright Bus Tours (BBT). They haven't tried to go toe to toe with Lothian's Edinburgh Bus Tours (EBT) operation and rightly so as they didn't want to invest that heavily and if they had the market would be saturated with two near identical options.
What they've done is invest a little, to cause a lot of pain. Whereas Lothian, with LCB have arguably done the opposite! Instead with BBT they've gone very much with more of an easyJet low cost approach to EBTs full service offering and I think that's been the masterstroke.
If you are visiting Edinburgh for a while and are happy taking multiple tours to see it all then EBT has you covered, and really well too.
If you're not around for so long, or you just want a quick tour then BBT now offers that option at a much lower cost. The (pre COVID) loadings for both operations seem to demonstrate that their is a market for both.
First will be over the moon as they've rolled a few quid into an operation and will likely be seeing a decent return on it already. The low investment levels will probably help it survive COVID too so it can keep on bringing in coin when things properly bounce back.
You'd think if the feedback was telling them people were put off by their staff appearance they'd invest to correct it - but like most corporates First won't spend a penny unless they'll see a buck so I think they'll view the 'look' as part of a successful formula that they are disinclined to change as it's working for them.
For EBT prices I'd expect them to be dressed as they are, but for BBT I'd accept it's part of the deal. Just like I don't expect table service in McDonalds but I'd be unimpressed if I had to order on a touchscreen and then get my food in a brown bag at Miller and Carter's!
My view on it anyway.
Edit - appreciate this could arguably be in with the BBT or Lothian thread before this one but I was chiming in on the earlier chat - mods please move if appropriate!
What they've done is invest a little, to cause a lot of pain. Whereas Lothian, with LCB have arguably done the opposite! Instead with BBT they've gone very much with more of an easyJet low cost approach to EBTs full service offering and I think that's been the masterstroke.
If you are visiting Edinburgh for a while and are happy taking multiple tours to see it all then EBT has you covered, and really well too.
If you're not around for so long, or you just want a quick tour then BBT now offers that option at a much lower cost. The (pre COVID) loadings for both operations seem to demonstrate that their is a market for both.
First will be over the moon as they've rolled a few quid into an operation and will likely be seeing a decent return on it already. The low investment levels will probably help it survive COVID too so it can keep on bringing in coin when things properly bounce back.
You'd think if the feedback was telling them people were put off by their staff appearance they'd invest to correct it - but like most corporates First won't spend a penny unless they'll see a buck so I think they'll view the 'look' as part of a successful formula that they are disinclined to change as it's working for them.
For EBT prices I'd expect them to be dressed as they are, but for BBT I'd accept it's part of the deal. Just like I don't expect table service in McDonalds but I'd be unimpressed if I had to order on a touchscreen and then get my food in a brown bag at Miller and Carter's!
My view on it anyway.
Edit - appreciate this could arguably be in with the BBT or Lothian thread before this one but I was chiming in on the earlier chat - mods please move if appropriate!
scotrail158713
Established Member
With all the orange it really is similar to EasyJet
I do agree with you though - it was a very smart, and seemingly successful, move from First.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I fully agree with you (and think for the purposes of this discussion, it is inextricably linked).
We all know the travails of First Scotland East and the serial mismanagement of the Lothian operations etc. That's old ground. The fact is that in the last few years, First had begun to invest in its West Lothian operations with Streetlites (!) and e400mmc. They'd simplified the WL network but even so, it seemed an odd time for Lothian to consider this a good time to set up a competitive operation.
Not only that but that Lothian decided not to opt for a simple competitive operation that largely covered the best bits, doing so from existing resources. They went all in, new depot and then additional services with brand new and expensive fleet. Even more strangely, they introduced two express services with brand new fleet from relatively small towns/catchment with a parallel rail service. As a total strategy, I thought that seemed to be bold, for want of a better word.
Some people on this thread suggested that First would simply pack up (citing earlier exits like Northampton or North Devon) but that was always unlikely to happen. Similarly, it was unlikely that First were going to launch some huge onslaught on Lothian in their back yard. My view was that they would simply batten down the hatches, introduce a few extra runs over key corridors and try to starve Lothian's incursion and that's been broadly true. Some of the most expensive fleet (depreciation on e400mmc, fuel on B7TLs) have been moved on and they've been replaced by more frugal Streetlites.
What I hadn't anticipated, and don't believe anyone else suggested it, was First's attack on Lothian's lucrative open top tours market. Now this is what some people are failing to appreciate:
- The cost of entry has been kept low - old fleet, running in from Livi etc. The deliberately cheap and cheerful approach keeps in with that with the genuine (?) justification that it has been done to differentiate from the Lothian offering
- There is a genuine market segmentation of the market; some tourists will buy on quality and convenience, and some on price - that's why in the early 1990s, you'd have an official tour and then Guide Friday running tired ex Nottingham stuff (and not just in Edinburgh)
It's a clear "for every £3 fare you make in Livingston, you'll lose £x revenue on the Edinburgh open top market". That's not to say that Lothian are losing money on the open toppers. Nor that there isn't some organic growth on BBT with a product that is cheap enough to attract a bit more discretionary spend. However, First are doubtlessly taking more off Lothian for relatively little spend than Lothian are taking off First for much more investment.
The great unknown now is Covid. Should the X38 and EX2 not return then it will signal that part of the incursion has not succeeded. However, given the money they've invested in Livi, that they are consolidating some routes in the town shouldn't be a surprise. That's the latest chess move....one has to then ask what is the next one for First?
overthewater
Established Member
- Joined
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- 8,176
First were planning a second tour, so I think we might see something next spring, on top of that First will be sharping it's pencil to get hold of a few more West lothian Tenders. They is a good chance they could win the no9, as it prefect bolt on to it's current no27 and it would have improve freq. The Only other opportunities is try retry routes to the Gyle, however I doubt they would try North edinburgh route.
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Posts 641 to 644 were copied from this thread:
West Lothian buses
People have wondered how long it would take before they go west and here we go....might explain the recent push for new drivers too. https://lothiancountry.co.uk/ We’re excited to announce the launch of new services to Bathgate and Whitburn from August 19. We’ll be publishing more details over...
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SpeedbirdA350
Member
I was out and about today, and seen a few tour buses (only seen First ones) but 3 out of the 4 were empty and one had just 2 people on it. Not sure if Lothian are running too, as never seen them, but it seems to me that they are wasting money.
I seen a few yesterday, yes quiet, noticed 4 people on one. The blue and yellow bus. It is late in the season.
I'm not surprised that there's hardly anyone on it given both the time of year and the weather we've had.
I did the Classic Tour about 20 years ago. It was April and while I enjoyed the tour, I was glad to get a heat afterwards!
Do the open-top tours run year-round?
I did the Classic Tour about 20 years ago. It was April and while I enjoyed the tour, I was glad to get a heat afterwards!
Do the open-top tours run year-round?
That's about the most I've seen on any of the tour buses. I wonder at what point both companies will pull the plug this winter and wait for next spring, hopefully it's not a case of each seeing who blinks first (pun not intended!).
SpeedbirdA350
Member
Lothian did run last year through winter, with 8 on Christmas Day! Obvious difference is Edinburgh is busy as anything over Christmas so it's a nice payday... Unlike now when its completely dead.
I don't think we will see any proper tourism until 2022 with 2021 being weaker than normal, so they need to look at this carefully. I'm surprised they even started up again.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
One of the BBT E400s has been up in Aberdeen since Friday/Saturday. Unsure why but it looks like they're possibly doing some recruitment?
www.flickr.com
First Scotland East 33891 LK08NVN (2nd November 2020)
Seen Photo date: 02/11/2020 ©Jordan Adam
www.flickr.com
Recruitment for an Aberdeen tour I'd assume? Does anyone operate one there at the moment?One of the BBT E400s has been up in Aberdeen since Friday/Saturday. Unsure why but it looks like they're possibly doing some recruitment?
First Scotland East 33891 LK08NVN (2nd November 2020)
Seen Photo date: 02/11/2020 ©Jordan Adam
Jordan Adam
Established Member
No, but the council were in talks about it last year. Doesn't November right after a pandemic seem an odd time though?
Fixed that for you
Hope it's not for Edinburgh Tours work. Would be a helluva commute!
OmniCity999
Established Member
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Maybe not locally as in with people from elsewhere in Scotland but there is a fairly strong tourist market in Aberdeen. Particularly with Europeans. Grampian used to run tours until around 2002, then City Sightseeing gave it a go from 2005 to 2008 however this was poorly publicized and infrequency so never really grew. Whytes also ran a daily city tour until very recently and there are walking tours.
I was taken on one a very long time ago. The only thing I remember is that we were taken to a granite quarry - Rubislaw probably.
About as interesting as the former City Sightseeing Newport (S Wales) tour then - over there you have a ruined roman fort and over there you've got the bus station
JurassicMan
Member
Hearing BBT will be stopping operations on Friday 13/11/20,probably due to how quiet the tourism is in the city and with no signs of any improvement before Spring 2021 at earliest.
With no winter festival or hogmaneigh celebrations you would imagine it was an easy decision not to have buses running around carrying no one.
With no winter festival or hogmaneigh celebrations you would imagine it was an easy decision not to have buses running around carrying no one.