Can't see EBT being far behind. At least the furlough scheme has been extended so staff will be safe at both companies.
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Edinburgh Tour Operators: Bright Bus, Lothian (Majestic, Three Bridges) etc.
- Thread starter overthewater
- Start date
Can't see EBT being far behind. At least the furlough scheme has been extended so staff will be safe at both companies.
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JurassicMan
Member
You would have to think it will be Spring of the New year ,pretty pointless before that and with Furlough In place until end of March it seems logical to assume they will coincide time wise.
overthewater
Established Member
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I wonder if that includes the long awaited second tour? Many of the tourist attractions must surly be closed since there not essential?
Lothian285
Member
Just noticed that the Majestic Tour and 3 Bridges Tour have now been suspended and CitySightseeing and Edinburgh Tour have been reduced to every 30 minutes: EBT winter leaflet
overthewater
Established Member
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- 16 Apr 2012
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- 8,178
How can these services even be breaking even right now?
VioletEclipse
Member
They can't be. Was in town last week and saw every Brightbus and EBT bus at least once. An Edinburgh Tour Gemini had 2 passengers onboard, the rest had none.
VioletEclipse
Member
Some of Lothian's open top 2016 Gemini 3s have been repainted into plain yellow. I'm wondering if they're destined as spare buses, as setting up a new tour wouldn't make any sense right now, and neither would selling 4 year old buses.
Yeah. Are there any images of them?
Jordan Adam
Established Member
They never said what city they were planning the second tour in though.
Word up here at the moment is that they'll be launching an Aberdeen tour next year, which is why one of the E400s is currently at King Street Depot and has been spotted multiple times going round the city with staff onboard.
First Scotland East 33891 LK08NVN (2nd November 2020)
Seen Photo date: 02/11/2020 ©Jordan Adam
www.flickr.com
Baileygirl
Member
It has also been mentioned that they are planning one for Stirling as well.They never said what city they were planning the second tour in though.
Word up here at the moment is that they'll be launching an Aberdeen tour next year, which is why one of the E400s is currently at King Street Depot and has been spotted multiple times going round the city with staff onboard.
First Scotland East 33891 LK08NVN (2nd November 2020)
Seen Photo date: 02/11/2020 ©Jordan Adam
MackTen
Member
As much as I was pleased to see a new entrant, I really was uninspired by their livery and choice of vehicle. Although obviously, the average punter would have not known the vehicles were second hand refurbishments.
I'll declare a conflict of interest - I am a long time Lothian fan. But even so, I do think it is quite unfair that the only time a new entrant appears to have wanted to challenge their tour monopoly in a decade or more, is only after they have made a massive investment.
It's like Lothian were being punished for their commitment to keeping the tours operation at a high standard of quality (setting aside all debate about where they get the money for such investment), when they could so easily have abused their monopoly.
Surely leasing and digital marketing makes it viable these days, if you're minded to challenge an operation like Lothian, to go in all guns blazing, with the very highest spec vehicles, the very best liveries, and an offering that looks a bit more ambitious than simple cherry picking / undercutting.
I can foresee an issue if, for example, undue pressure were felt or put on Wrightbus not to supply similar vehicles. But hopefully we are past such things, given recent court cases.
The very worst aspect of deregulation to my mind, is short term opportunism. I at least hope this new entrant aren't able to turn a quick profit from being bought out by Lothian, although sadly I still think that is considered all fine and dandy. And again, this is no defence of the possibility that Lothian is perhaps more suited to withstand the challenge due to the way they are funded.
Here's hoping the promised enhancement is at the least, brand new kit, and a rethink of their branding.
I'll declare a conflict of interest - I am a long time Lothian fan. But even so, I do think it is quite unfair that the only time a new entrant appears to have wanted to challenge their tour monopoly in a decade or more, is only after they have made a massive investment.
It's like Lothian were being punished for their commitment to keeping the tours operation at a high standard of quality (setting aside all debate about where they get the money for such investment), when they could so easily have abused their monopoly.
Surely leasing and digital marketing makes it viable these days, if you're minded to challenge an operation like Lothian, to go in all guns blazing, with the very highest spec vehicles, the very best liveries, and an offering that looks a bit more ambitious than simple cherry picking / undercutting.
I can foresee an issue if, for example, undue pressure were felt or put on Wrightbus not to supply similar vehicles. But hopefully we are past such things, given recent court cases.
The very worst aspect of deregulation to my mind, is short term opportunism. I at least hope this new entrant aren't able to turn a quick profit from being bought out by Lothian, although sadly I still think that is considered all fine and dandy. And again, this is no defence of the possibility that Lothian is perhaps more suited to withstand the challenge due to the way they are funded.
Here's hoping the promised enhancement is at the least, brand new kit, and a rethink of their branding.
Stan Drews
Established Member
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- 1,578
I think we can probably quite safely say that if it wasn’t for the opportunism of Lothian in West Lothian, they would have been able to continue running their lucrative tours without any competition!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
I agree, i don't even think that's really up for debate. First had no desire to enter the tour market until late 2018/early 2019.
I don't think you quite understand the situation and motivation behind Bright Bus Tours. I'm not here to defend First, but i can provide a counter case and perhaps a better explanation from their perspective.
The livery and marketing was cheap and cheerful on purpose. The reason for investing in older refurbished vehicles was to lower expenditure costs, obviously lower expenditure = lower risk. First investing in 15 brand new vehicles for a venture like this just wouldn't at all make sense given the long term viability of Bright Bus Tours (and Lothian Country) was and still is questionable.
First had invested extensively in new vehicles in 2015/16 with a major network revision that simplified and improved services for many, only for Lothian to come along in August 2018. So the same argument could be flipped in First's favour there. First then launched Bright Bus Tours in 2019 in response, the aim from First's perspective was never to make a huge profit, but rather to cover running costs and take potential customers away from Lothian as First knew a large proportion of Lothians revenue comes from the tours. Yes this is quite trivial but it's how a competitive deregulated market works.
I doubt we'll see brand new vehicles, prior to Covid First were preparing some newer Ex-London Enviro400s for Bright Bus Tours, however it appears they may be getting diverted to Aberdeen for a tour that's speculated to be launching this summer. One of said vehicles is already up here and has been seen on trials/test runs.
First Scotland East 33891 LK08NVN (2nd November 2020)
Seen Photo date: 02/11/2020 ©Jordan Adam
www.flickr.com
Long term i see Lothian pulling out of West Lothian and First pulling out of the tours, when that will happen is anyone's guess. Regardless i think it's been made pretty clear that First have no intentions to pull from West Lothian (despite what some may say) and Lothian have no intention to cut (long term) or pull away from their tours.
Also worth remembering that whilst well kept, Lothian's own tour fleet was a similar vintage to Bright Bus Tours until the brand new B5TLs that arrived in 2016.
I believe First have Euro 6'd them all too so they are ready for incoming restrictions.
I've said it before, First have been very, very savvy here, In a scenario where I agree that Lothian weren't with the LCB adventure - which was a few years too late.
I believe First have Euro 6'd them all too so they are ready for incoming restrictions.
I've said it before, First have been very, very savvy here, In a scenario where I agree that Lothian weren't with the LCB adventure - which was a few years too late.
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MackTen
Member
I'd actually forgotten it was First behind this outfit. Makes it worse for me, since their intentions are clear, and they have absolutely no interest in improving tour services. The same cannot be said for Lothian's incursion into West Lothian, a place many have demanded they serve for years, don't forget.
It can hardly be argued they shouldn't have gone in after First had (finally) gotten around to investing in this territory, after decades of making it pretty clear the Lothians were not their priority.
If anything, they should take it as a compliment that Lothian's decision was probably a reflection of their belief they saw this as First making a long term commitment, although more likely, they were trying to make it unattractive to potential buyers or a management buyout, since it seems clear First wants to sell off its UK buses in small regional chunks.
First has always had the money to properly compete with Lothian on a like for like, or even an our product is better than yours, basis, if they had any end goal in mind other than a quick retrenchment back to established lines.
It can hardly be argued they shouldn't have gone in after First had (finally) gotten around to investing in this territory, after decades of making it pretty clear the Lothians were not their priority.
If anything, they should take it as a compliment that Lothian's decision was probably a reflection of their belief they saw this as First making a long term commitment, although more likely, they were trying to make it unattractive to potential buyers or a management buyout, since it seems clear First wants to sell off its UK buses in small regional chunks.
First has always had the money to properly compete with Lothian on a like for like, or even an our product is better than yours, basis, if they had any end goal in mind other than a quick retrenchment back to established lines.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Don't know if that's correct. First were talking of selling off either as a whole or in chunks; that's not happening and hasn't been for some time, since David Martin came in.
Put bluntly... Lothian went into West Lothian about 5 years too late. Unfortunately, First had got their act together and had invested. Despite this, they went in and expected First to roll over and leave because that's what First used to do. They hadn't anticipated a response from First, which was pretty naive as it was clear that things had changed.
First came in with a bright and breezy, low overhead (so low risk and low cost) approach as a response. Yes, it's designed to abstract trade from Lothian though it might also have attracted some organic growth in the market. I don't doubt that it was prompted purely by Lothian's incursion into West Lothian but did people really think that First would meekly tolerate such a move against them?
This Lothian v First debate has been done to death and I'd rather maintain the cease-fire, thank you 
See also this thread:
See also this thread:
West Lothian buses
People have wondered how long it would take before they go west and here we go....might explain the recent push for new drivers too. https://lothiancountry.co.uk/ We’re excited to announce the launch of new services to Bathgate and Whitburn from August 19. We’ll be publishing more details over...
www.railforums.co.uk
This will be due to BBT getting some newer stock.
cnjb8
Established Member
I thought the new stock was for a tour in Aberdeen, unless this is cancelled
What are they getting?
On the Buses
Member
No they’re not. They’re transferring to FSW but not for the Atlantic Coaster and not for Cornwall
Flange Squeal
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Would they be for the Dartmoor Explorer then?
OmniCity999
Established Member
I reckon Bright Bus Tours could be a brand that's being developed and taken national.
Adapt the livery in every destination, set up cheap and make a name for themselves, will make a killing.
If tourism returns...
Adapt the livery in every destination, set up cheap and make a name for themselves, will make a killing.
If tourism returns...
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Indeed however Aberdeen realistically will only need two or three vehicles if the tour goes ahead. So even then there's still a few that can go to Edinburgh.
I agree, there is potential for First to expand the brand further if they want to. It's quite distinctive and stands out, and clearly the model they had in Edinburgh with lower set up costs (thus lower risk) has worked somewhat in their favour. However i suspect as with many things First do the concept will be good/great but the implementation will be poor and it'll be gone within 5 years...
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Hmmm..... Interesting
I don’t about that but First (and other large groups) now operate more open toppers than they have done for several years. I’d there’s an uptick in staycations, might be a growth area to exploit?