Edinburgh Tram developments

[route101]

Plenty of First Glasgow buses; they have a "short hop" fare (totally undefined how far that is nowadays, previously defined as "typically"…), a "longer hop" fare, and then a "suburban" fare if you're going outside what they call the "city" (this doesn't really match up to anything!). All have at least the first two fares. Return tickets are even more complicated, because the suburban fares then start to vary depending on where they're going, from memory.

Yes they changed it back in 2011. Think its 1.60 for up to 5 stops then 2.10 single in city zone .
Outwith that its much more expensive like 4 quid single from Glasgow to Hamilton
Funilly enough East Kilbride is in city zone so its 2.10 single .

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Service frequency increased yesterday without much fanfare or prior announcement:

So... how many trams are out daily now then? It was 9 diagrams before, with 12 diagrams in the peak. Presumably this has now increased?

 

[overthewater]

Was the increase not parlty due to the fact half the trains now stop at the gateway instead of South Gyle thus how else where passenger going to get across a major Road junction?

Just great more trams clogging up Edinburgh. Not happy.

 

[asylumxl]

Was the increase not parlty due to the fact half the trains now stop at the gateway instead of South Gyle thus how else where passenger going to get across a major Road junction?

Just great more trams clogging up Edinburgh. Not happy.

Trams are the least of your worries. Idiot tourists standing in the road taking photos are far more of a concern.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think the extras are only really needed between Edinburgh park and airport TBH

 

[oldman]

So... how many trams are out daily now then? It was 9 diagrams before, with 12 diagrams in the peak. Presumably this has now increased?

Detailed timetable is on Traveline Scotland as route T50. Probably still 12 but for 12 hours a day and seven days a week, with fewer early morning and evening.

 

[reb0118]

Was the increase not parlty due to the fact half the trains now stop at the gateway instead of South Gyle thus how else where passenger going to get across a major Road junction?

Just great more trams clogging up Edinburgh. Not happy.

Not sure about this. AFAIAA the trams stop at both Edinburgh Park [EDP] & the new Edinburgh Gateway [EGY] - there is no link with the heavy rail station at South Gyle [SGL].

As to pedestrian access from EGY to the Gyle Shopping Centre - there is a covered walkway from EGY & a tunnel under the A8. It's about a 5 min. walk.



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[overthewater]

Not sure about this. AFAIAA the trams stop at both Edinburgh Park [EDP] & the new Edinburgh Gateway [EGY] - there is no link with the heavy rail station at South Gyle [SGL].

As to pedestrian access from EGY to the Gyle Shopping Centre - there is a covered walkway from EGY & a tunnel under the A8. It's about a 5 min. walk.

I try to explain better, The trains in question only stop or ether OR, the trains do not stop at both South Gyle and Gateway, Thus passenger need to get off and get to the places of work. its all fine a well having a voered walkway to Gyle Shopping Centre, but most the users are workers going to Edinburgh park /South Gyle were there is a tram stop.

 

[reb0118]

I try to explain better, The trains in question only stop or ether OR, the trains do not stop at both South Gyle and Gateway, Thus passenger need to get off and get to the places of work. its all fine a well having a voered walkway to Gyle Shopping Centre, but most the users are workers going to Edinburgh park /South Gyle were there is a tram stop.

I've got you now. Passengers transferring from train to tram because of the reduction in services to South Gyle [SGL]. You could have a point.

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[theageofthetra]

I occasionally visit a relatives house at Saughton Mains (nearest bus stop- by the prison governers house). Would normally get a bus from the airport straight there but it can take ages if arriving/departing when the bank office workers are leaving. Would it be better now to get a tram to Edin Gateway and pick up the bus at the Gyle centre?

 

[TheEscapist_]

Surely the tram to Saughton from the airport would be best for you?


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[theageofthetra]

Surely the tram to Saughton from the airport would be best for you?


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I looked at that but its too far to walk with luggage.

 

[oldman]

If you want to change to the 35, Bankhead is the best option - a very short walk and you benefit from the tram for the maximum distance. Of course buying separate tickets makes it much more expensive than the 35 throughout.

 

[theageofthetra]

Good call I forgot about Bankhead. It would only be if I had a flight that meant arriving or leaving during the rush hour otherwise would just use the bus the whole way.

 

[Starmill]

Was certainly the norm in Manchester in the 1990s. When the fares eventually went up (as a late 1990s student) you got the oddity of there being effectively a product called "40 please" that cost 45p.

I used to do that. It annoyed me because there were multiple operators and I sometimes said the wrong one, and it annoyed the drivers because on that particular route whenever the fares changed every other person would ask for a fare that wasn't one and they would have to guess between two which it was.


The entire system was (is), as another forum member likes to say, pants-on-head crazy.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It has been brought to my attention, mainly by the announcement that Stagecoach are pulling out of South Queensferry that there are planned changes in frequency on the trams and SC are siting this as one of the reasons their opps in this area are unsustainable and will become more so. Any ideas foalks?

 

[oldman]

They loudly announced an increase to every 5 minutes in the peak last July, but currently according to Traveline it's every 7/8 all day. Was there a cut in peak frequency when they quietly increased the off-peak frequency in January? If so they might reverse it.

If they extend to Leith or Newhaven, I would expect an increase, although it could be offset by a reduction in buses up the Walk.

Of course, blaming the trams is an easy excuse. 'We didn't provide a very good service to Queensferry' doesn't sound so good.

 

[GrimShady]

Whats the latest information on the extension to Leith?

 

[mark-h]

I think the tram extension/city deal is delayed until after the council elections on the 4th of May.

 

[Esmenfif]

Correct. They've made the election the equivalent of a referendum on tram extension.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And also rather IMHO shot themselves in the foot a bit as starting any kind of work like this now the St James redevelopment is under way would be very unwise as the East End is already congested and will be more so when Leith Street closes after the festival.

Should they be lucky enough to get approval for the extention then therl be no way building at the City end could start till the early 2020's. Of course those in charge must face trial by election first and thus far its a hard one to call.

 

[mark-h]

The Evening News suggests late June for the signing of the City Deal.

Picardy Place roundabout is the difficult bit of the tram extension but is being funded by the St James Centre . Down to Leith is relatively easy, the utilities have avoided the land under the pre-1950s tram tracks (solid concrete is not easy to dig up) or have already been rerouted.

Once the tram Elm Row is reached then the tram can be opened in sections. If the current tram line had opened from the airport to Haymarket (the easy bit) whilst the city centre track was being built there may have been a better public response at the time.

 

[oldman]

Correct. They've made the election the equivalent of a referendum on tram extension.

Not sure who you mean by 'they'. The SNP manifesto says

The Tram extension business case is being developed now and we have maintained a strong oversight over this process to make sure the business case coming to Council in June is as robust as possible.

The project has to be funded without putting any additional strain on the council’s finances, we need assurances that the project will be properly managed, we need to ensure that any programme minimises disruption and small businesses must be supported throughout the duration of the works.

So if the City Deal provides some funds, and as long as it's done properly this time, it's OK. Labour is much the same.

The Tories are against the extension as 'too expensive, too long and too soon'.

 

[InOban]

Sorry if this is discussed elsewhere, I'm new to this thread.

On the couple of times I've used the tram in from Ingliston Park and Ride, it struck me that even on the straight sections, largely between Edinburgh park and murrayfield, it rarely got up to speed. And when I recently went along Princes St on a bus it seemed to be traveling faster than the tram. Are there any plans to speed them up now that the public are used to them?

 

[GrimShady]

Im looking forward tpo the day I can get a Tram to Ocean Terminal. Glasgow should be taking note, its a dream of mine to reduce or remove the number of buses from the streets. The Glasgow Trams should never have went in the first place, the Victorians gave the city and many others a wonderful transport network which we have destroyed.

 

[Blindtraveler]

None that Im aware of but I think speeding them up would actually make foalk use them.

I seams to me a pritty simple bit of marketing, Tram now faster to the airport.

 

[Taunton]

Having made quite a stir with comments a while back in this thread, last week I was back in Edinburgh, and used the tram again. Twice. For the rather unusual reason that I was staying in the centre, and the person picking me up both days found it convenient to pick me up, and then drive on, at the airport.

Afraid to say I'm still not at all impressed with many aspects of it. Although at 8 a.m. outward from the city it seemed better used. In fact better outward than inward, which is strange. The main traffic flow seemed to be to the new offices at Edinburgh Park, etc, which look a bit remote from regular bus routes. Elsewhere traffic was thin at stops, although the vehicle from Princes Street to Edinburgh Park was at least well filled.

It's actually not difficult to fill all the seats, because for such a large multi-section articulated vehicle there aren't many of them.

Whoever designed the ticket machines needs to start again. A multi-step touch-screen machine, if south-facing in the morning sun (yes, even in Edinburgh) you can't really see it. And at one step the touch just didn't work. As it's where you press a +/- tile which is not really intuitive, I was puzzled by this, but eventually concluded a failure and went to the other (north facing) one, which worked. The second day I tried the original machine first, and it failed at the same point.

The credit card unit is located so low down that I actually had to kneel down on the pavement to use it. Someone said the disability regulations for wheelchair users are responsible. This seems odd, because surely wheelchair users have passes which allow them to travel without paying. Plus the elderly and others who walk with difficulty must find them impossible to use.

Never mind, anyway, because the standard fare is £1.70, and credit cards are not accepted for transactions led than £3. Despite Edinburgh being a banking centre, they seem not to have heard that contactless etc has done away with minimum credit card values.

Slow speed of the trams is still noticeable, as is the 2-3 minute waiting time at Haymarket, just as had I previously encountered. All curves seem to require walking pace only. In fact this seems to also apply to all facing points, descending the shallow gradient in Haymarket Yards, footpath crossings, tunnels, you name it. What a slow and delaying (to everyone else) grind they make from St Andrew Square round into Princes Street. I don't know any other tram system worldwide which needs such slow speed on curves. The greatest nonsense is the last long stretch to the airport, through potato fields, which has been bizarrely laid out as a series of right-angle bends through the fields, all of which need walking pace (and for such long vehicles, right until the last section has got round).

There's a new stop out by The Maybury called Edinburgh Gateway, interchange to the Fife rail line alongside at that point. This seems to have been designed with architectural plans left over from the TGV in France, a ludicrously over-sized (and thus expensive) structure. presumably the architect was paid as a percentage of the construction cost and let rip. I didn't get off but there seemed to be escalators everywhere inside the main building. Only thing missing was, of course, passengers.

But the greatest stupidity was the last, at the airport. Fares are £1.60 anywhere, except to the final stop at the airport, which is £5.50. Probably about 20 people got off there both days. There were SIX (yes, I counted them) ticket inspection staff, gruffly demanding "Tickets" (no "Please") from the passengers. SIX. You can see where the costs of the organisation get frittered. As all trams all carry a "Conductor" anyway, why can't they do a ticket check on the final stage? Or have done so beforehand and remember who had airport tickets, as their colleagues elsewhere in the country seem to do readily. Even if they alighted from the driver's door first and checked tickets as people passed, it would work.

I got dropped off by car at the airport at the end of my trip. I did wonder if there are more escalators at Edinburgh Gateway tram stop than in the whole of Edinburgh Airport.

 

[Butts]

But the greatest stupidity was the last, at the airport. Fares are £1.60 anywhere, except to the final stop at the airport, which is £5.50. Probably about 20 people got off there both days. There were SIX (yes, I counted them) ticket inspection staff, gruffly demanding "Tickets" (no "Please") from the passengers. SIX. You can see where the costs of the organisation get frittered. As all trams all carry a "Conductor" anyway, why can't they do a ticket check on the final stage? Or have done so beforehand and remember who had airport tickets, as their colleagues elsewhere in the country seem to do readily. Even if they alighted from the driver's door first and checked tickets as people passed, it would work.

I got dropped off by car at the airport at the end of my trip. I did wonder if there are more escalators at Edinburgh Gateway tram stop than in the whole of Edinburgh Airport.

I'm not sure of the answer to that one, but I would say the escalators outnumber the passengers joining or alighting at Edinburgh Gateway.

Last time I passed through, a couple of months ago, the staff onboard were wondering whether it was a real passenger or an apparition when someone actually boarded.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think Taunton has the measure of the beast/white elifant pritty well, with one of his key points being of course that the prime users are to offices etc not well or at all served by a bus.

The pass holders situation is such that only City of Edinburgh consession card holders ride for free and still have to validate their smartcard prior to bording.
Anyone else, disabled or otherwise pays up, always assuming they can both use the reader and not want anything under 3 quid.


On the rest of his points and many more I have to agree and cheer loudly!

 

[Taunton]

It's actually not difficult to fill all the seats, because for such a large multi-section articulated vehicle there aren't many of them.

I've actually just looked up the spec of these Leviathans. They are 140 feet long, in 7 articulated sections and have 78 seats.

By coincidence, i recall that when I lived in Edinburgh in the 1970s, the Leyland double deck buses had exactly this seating capacity. 44 upstairs and 34 downstairs.

If I remember correctly they were 30 feet long. One fifth of the length.