Edinburgh Tram System

[TrainBrain185]

I heard from a friend who visited Edinburgh recently that some of the tram lines in the Central area have been covered with tarmac and the project has been halted through lack of funds.

Is this version of events true, or have I been given duff info?

In general, whats the current situation up there?

 

[WatcherZero]

Its proceeding but slowly, they did reopen the roads they were working on for the tourist season which is what he may have been refering too. The original route planned has been cut back to save money and there is continual talk of shortening it even more to keep it on budget.

 

[kylemore]

It's a total disaster, Light Rail in Scotland is a Dead Duck for at least a generation because of this debacle. Thank goodness Scottish news does'nt interest people down south anymore or it would set things back there too!
If you want the gory details you should look at the Edinburgh Evening News sight and follow links to "hot topic - trams", for anybody interested in improving public transport in the UK to say german standards it makes sorry reading.
They're trying to blame it all on the contractor with the help of the local media but 99.9% of the blame lies with the utterly useless council "professionals" we're saddled with in Scotland, a visit to a brewery with these idiots would be a very sober experience indeed!

 

[Nightrider]

It's a total disaster, Light Rail in Scotland is a Dead Duck for at least a generation because of this debacle. Thank goodness Scottish news does'nt interest people down south anymore or it would set things back there too!
If you want the gory details you should look at the Edinburgh Evening News sight and follow links to "hot topic - trams", for anybody interested in improving public transport in the UK to say german standards it makes sorry reading.
They're trying to blame it all on the contractor with the help of the local media but 99.9% of the blame lies with the utterly useless council "professionals" we're saddled with in Scotland, a visit to a brewery with these idiots would be a very sober experience indeed!

Everybody i have met from Edinburgh seems to be raging at the council over this farce.
That bizarre vote over the congestion charge sealed the money issue or as it seems the lack of it.
Common sense would have said, congestion charge great idea, charge outsiders a tax for bringing their car into Edinburgh at peak periods.
The madhatters from the council wanted to charge even their own residents/voters.
Eh, voters said NO.
Roll on the Borders Railway.

 

[jamesontheroad]

It's a total disaster, Light Rail in Scotland is a Dead Duck for at least a generation because of this debacle.

It's not just Scotland... look to Cambridge and the utterly predictable disaster unfolding with the (mis)guided busway

 

[kylemore]

It's not just Scotland... look to Cambridge and the utterly predictable disaster unfolding with the (mis)guided busway

Too true! Guided busways are nonsense, the great strength of the bus is it's flexibility, trying to pretend it's a tram is just a cost cutting gimmick (altho the costs tend to spiral upwards!)
The same useless crowd behind the Edinburgh Tram were behind the ill-fated Edinburgh guided busway from the airport to city centre. They blamed Firstbus and the contractors for the collapse of that one and now they're trying the same trick with the vastly more costly Tram!

 

[Mojo]

Despite the disaster, unfortunately a number of local authorities are still going down the road (or should that be concrete blocks) of misguided busways due to the unfortunate fact that government capital investment will cover more of the cost than for light rail, and decisions are often misguided (no pun intended) by misleading quotes from contractors, bus companies and others that guided busways can be an appropriate alternative that can save money.

 

[90019]

I heard from a friend who visited Edinburgh recently that some of the tram lines in the Central area have been covered with tarmac and the project has been halted through lack of funds.

Is this version of events true, or have I been given duff info?

In general, whats the current situation up there?

They've not been covered, it's just that the short stretch that's been done ends rather abruptly.

Interestingly, the tracks are under a year old, haven't had a single tram run over them, but have already had to be repaired.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Everybody i have met from Edinburgh seems to be raging at the council over this farce.

And with good reason, the whole thing is a farce, but they'll carry on until they're done, no doubt even more overbudget and even more delayed - currently running 3 years late.

Common sense would have said, congestion charge great idea, charge outsiders a tax for bringing their car into Edinburgh at peak periods.
The madhatters from the council wanted to charge even their own residents/voters.
Eh, voters said NO.

We also said no to the trams, but they went ahead with them anyway.

 

[CarterUSM]

They've not been covered, it's just that the short stretch that's been done ends rather abruptly.

Interestingly, the tracks are under a year old, haven't had a single tram run over them, but have already had to be repaired.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And with good reason, the whole thing is a farce, but they'll carry on until they're done, no doubt even more overbudget and even more delayed - currently running 3 years late.



We also said no to the trams, but they went ahead with them anyway.

And they took the concessionary rail travel off the oap's in may which amounts to nowt next to the current tram fiasco!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Similar problems when sheffield got there's absolute disaster. I'm sure it'll be up and running one day.

 

[kylemore]

Similar problems when sheffield got there's absolute disaster. I'm sure it'll be up and running one day.

I hope so but I think this is a whole new level of UK public transport disaster!
There's a very real possibility that £600-700m will have been spent with NOTHING to show for it, or at the very least an hilariously uneconomic "system" from "near" the airport to the edge of the city centre!
But look on the bright side Sheffield and Croydon could pick up some nice brand new trams cheap as chips!

 

[sprinterguy]

There's a very real possibility that £600-700m will have been spent with NOTHING to show for it, or at the very least an hilariously uneconomic "system" from "near" the airport to the edge of the city centre!
But look on the bright side Sheffield and Croydon could pick up some nice brand new trams cheap as chips!

Centro's artists' impressions for the Midland Metro New Street extension all seem to feature pictures of trams very similar to those to be used in Edinburgh...I think there's a conspiracy theory to be had here...

 

[YorkshireBear]

If it ever gets running and is to a scale that is reasonable for people to use it will be fantastic.
Only problem now with sheffield tram is lack of scope for extension, a few places could have had extension built by now with some better planning.

Are they restarting work over summer? Went to edinburgh a week ago and there were just tracks on princess? (forgotten name) street and a tram parked

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah thats a 'come see a tram your always complaining about and hopefully leave a little less hostile' type display on a short section of final tracks (the mockup was originally in the same location).

They reopened the roads for the Edinburgh Festival/Tatoo season. Blackpool did something similar having most of the work take place in the winter during normal annual reduced service so they could partially reopen the touristy bit on the promenade in the summer/illumination season.

 

[robertclark125]

Give credit where it's due. Croydon, Sheffield, and Nottingham have their tram systems. The problem is, the contractors signed a deal to do it for x amount of £s, ad now think they can ask for more money, breaching their contract.

Or, that's how it seems to me!

 

[WatcherZero]

More they signed it for a fixed cost, then they discovered through no fault of their own (Poor Tie groundwork inspections and more utilities to move than originally thought) it would be a lot harder and more expensive and they realised what was the point of doing the work if they lost money on it.

 

[kylemore]

The Edinburgh Tram project is now near total collapse, £500m down the tubes, a huge scandal. Go to Edinburgh Evening News website for details.

 

[YorkshireBear]

well that is embarrassing for them

 

[Dai.]

So I'm behind on all of this, is this because the company that started to build the tram system is low on funds? Or have they somehow forgotten to pay people?

Maybe a bit of both? And if so how come they went ahead with the build? or were there unforeseen circumstances later on in the build?

 

[scotsman]

So I'm behind on all of this, is this because the company that started to build the tram system is low on funds? Or have they somehow forgotten to pay people?

Maybe a bit of both? And if so how come they went ahead with the build? or were there unforeseen circumstances later on in the build?

TIE got cash from Ed City Council, then stopped work and asked for more a few months later.

 

[Dai.]

TIE got cash from Ed City Council, then stopped work and asked for more a few months later.

So what happened about the original quote or was this not the case? Surely as with any big build a settlement is agreed upon?

Has there been unforeseen circumstances to make the build more expensive?

 

[90019]

So what happened about the original quote or was this not the case? Surely as with any big build a settlement is agreed upon?

Has there been unforeseen circumstances to make the build more expensive?

They've had to do more work moving utilities and things than they originally had to budget for, so they're trying to get the money to pay for that.

What worries me is that Edinburgh Council and TIE are somewhat unwilling to admit they've made any mistakes, and I think they're going to keep trying to get them built, regardless of how much it ends up costing. Either that or they'll use the contractors as the excuse why it hasn't worked even though they're the ones who underestimated how much needed done and caused the problems in the first place.

 

[Tom B]

As others have said the council seem determined to steamroller the trams through to the detriment of everything else - all other council services are getting cut back however the trams are having more money thrown at them. Getting anywhere in the city is often a painful process.

 

[90019]

As others have said the council seem determined to steamroller the trams through to the detriment of everything else - all other council services are getting cut back however the trams are having more money thrown at them. Getting anywhere in the city is often a painful process.

What can I say, I'm glad I'm not living there permanently now.

 

[Nightrider]

Anymore word on how this project is going.

 

[Eng274]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Edinburgh-trams-chief-leaves-troubled.6610704.jp

make of that what you will..chairman is fleeing a (hopefully) sinking ship.. My only hope is that Lothian buses manages to sever the mooring line stuck to them before they go down with it.

 

[Nightrider]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Edinburgh-trams-chief-leaves-troubled.6610704.jp

make of that what you will..chairman is fleeing a (hopefully) sinking ship.. My only hope is that Lothian buses manages to sever the mooring line stuck to them before they go down with it.

That article makes frightening reading.

 

[Tom B]

And yet it'll still be delivered "on time and on budget". I asked TiE some time ago if they had heard the phrase "re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic". They "noted [my] comments".

 

[Nightrider]

To think at one time there was talk of this tram project reaching Livingstone.

 

[Eng274]

And yet it'll still be delivered "on time and on budget". I asked TiE some time ago if they had heard the phrase "re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic". They "noted [my] comments".

lol!

"Mr Mackay's decision to go, despite Tie urging him to stay, follows a series of setbacks and acrimonious rows with Bilfinger over completion of the 11.5-mile Edinburgh airport-Newhaven line, which are now almost certain to end in litigation."

Fantastic. £500m down the drain, no trams for three or four years if at all, and now a crippling legal bill when a court finds City of Edinburgh Council liable for the cock-up in the first place (I'd say 55/45, Bilfinger have previous on shafting their clients in the Far East, to be mildly fair to the council).

Does anyone know if the council tax rates for 2011-12 have been announced, theres nothing on Edinburgh Cooncil's website yet, but I'd be interested to know if the ratepayers will be coughing up for this next year.

Also, on a trip along Princes Street today, I noticed the lines really are shocking; the tar thats been poured into the crevice between the road and the rail is all over the place, the road surface is crumbling where it meets the rails.

If every citizen in Edinburgh bought a daysaver (£1.35m) every day for a year, it still wouldn't cover the cost of the trams to date. Even taking into account the high level of dependency on public transport in the city, it's still going to take a generation for this 'network' to pay for itself.