Electrification: Where and When

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Waverley125

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I think it's obvious that most of the UK's rail network will eventually get wired. The obvious question to me is, where, and when it happens. I've had a think, and come up with this

1. Current projects: Great Western, Transpennine & North West, inc. Leeds-Hull, Cardiff Valley lines, Edinburgh-Glasgow

2. Midland, Scottish & Northern: London-Leeds via Sheffield & Wakefield Westgate, EMP-Nottingham, Nottingham-Clay Cross Junction, Erewash Valley line, Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Kirkgate, Sheffield-Hull via Selby & via Goole, Edinburgh-Aberdeen, Glasgow-Dundee, Falkirk-Stirling, Ladybank-Perth, Perth-Inverness

3. Cross Country & GW infill. Bristol Parkway-Barnt Green, Birmingham-Derby (via Tamworth & Lichfield), Gloucester-Cardiff, Swindon-Gloucester, Cardiff-Swansea, Vale of Glamorgan line, Newbury-Penzance, Bristol-Taunton, Basingstoke-Exeter, Exeter-Exmouth, Newton Abbott-Paignton, Bath-Southampton/Eastleigh, Chippenham-Trowbridge

4. TPE & Northern infill. Sheffield-Manchester, Doncaster-Cleethorpes, York-Scarborough, Manchester-Liverpool via Warrington, Leeds-Manchester via Halifax, Mirfield-Sowerby Bridge, Mirfield-Goole via Pontefract, Knottingley-Doncaster, Crewe-Holyhead, Warrington BQ-Chester, Stockport-Chester, Stockport-Buxton, Northallerton-Middlesbrough

5. East of England & Midlands. Ely-Norwich, Ely-Birmingham via Peterborough, Nuneaton-Leamington via Coventry, Leamington-Worcester via Birmingham, Chiltern route, Nottingham-Lincoln, Peterborough-Doncaster via Lincoln, Birmingham-Shrewsbury, Oxford-Hereford, Shrewsbury-Newport, Rugeley-Walsall, Lowestoft-Ipswich, Felixstowe-Ipswich, Stowmarket-Ely via Bury St Edmunds, Cambridge-Bury St Edmunds
 
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rail-britain

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2. Glasgow-Dundee, Falkirk-Stirling
Already partially planned :
Glasgow - Edinburgh - Stirling - Alloa / Dunblane
Next phase :
Dunblane - Perth - Dundee

You've not mentioned Glasgow South :
Glasgow - Whifflet - Cumbernauld
Glasgow - East Kilbride / Kilmarnock
Glasgow - Shotts - Edinburgh

Odd there are no plans for :
Kilmarnock - Ayr - Girvan
Kilmarnock - Carlisle
 

DXMachina

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Once the MML is wired the case for wiring the Marston Vale between Bletchley and Bedford becomes higher for diversionary purposes - with or without continuing the electrification to Oxford to complete the Paddington - Birmingham electric detour.
 

anthony263

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You should also include Crewe - Shrewsbury & Wrexham - Bidston the later can then be transfered to Mersyrail and worked using emu's
 

sprinterguy

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Odd there are no plans for :
Kilmarnock - Ayr - Girvan
Kilmarnock - Carlisle
It doesn't seem odd to me, both the Glasgow - Kilmarnock - Stranrear and Glasgow - Kilmarnock - Carlisle services have notably low frequencies, and passenger demand is usually catered for with a 2-car 156 (Doubled up on the most popular services to/from Carlisle). At least there is a stable commuter traffic to Glasgow to tap into from Kilmarnock northwards.

And with the Girvan line, I think that a clearer picture of what the future holds for the route to Stranrear in the medium to long term will be required before any decisions are taken on major infrastructure projects. If anything, I envisage that electrification to Girvan would take the form of an extension of the existing electrified service that runs to Ayr.
 

IanXC

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1. Current projects: Great Western, Transpennine & North West, inc. Leeds-Hull, Cardiff Valley lines, Edinburgh-Glasgow

2. ...Sheffield-Hull via Selby & via Goole...

4. TPE & Northern infill....Doncaster-Cleethorpes, York-Scarborough...

Sheffield-Hull via Selby will be wired as far as Doncaster should the route specified in Network Rail's tender for TP North be the final out turn. Doncaster-Cleethorpes and York-Scarborough are also included in the tender, so these may skip up the list :D
 

LE Greys

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Not so sure about Perth-Inverness, service frequency is a bit low. Any Aberdeen scheme has to incude Dyce, a lot of trains reverse there, which hopefully means that that section of line gets dualled because it's an annoying bottleneck (on time all the way from Inverness, then held up by a late arrival from Glasgow). Salisbury-Exeter should also include full dualling, making a half-hourly service possible, or at least a lot of freight diversion.

I'd also add the Thames Valley branches, Oxted-Uckfield, Hastings-Ashford and Wokingham-Reigate, to cut out some diesel islands, remove the need to allocate diesels to electrified areas and so on.
 

HSTEd

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You seem to have missed Nottingham-Nottingham Junction (Grantham) which seems a little strange with your electrification of the rest of the Liverpool-Norwich route.
 

LE Greys

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I'd also suggest a major programme to replace current diesel freight locos with electric ones, ideally carrying an on-board generator for shunting purposes.
 

OxtedL

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Somebody has kindly already done the thinking for you:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...rk\Working Group 4 - Electrification Strategy

It's really quite easy to think of routes than become good candidates once other routes are wired up. Long lists of them aren't particularly useful, and we've done that many times before anyway.

A more useful question might be "Where won't we electrify?", but I think we've done that one already too.
 

LE Greys

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A more useful question might be "Where won't we electrify?", but I think we've done that one already too.

That's probably true. My answers to that would be Far North/Kyle, West Highland, Aberdeen-Inverness, probably Perth-Aberdeen (winter weather as well as not enough trains), Cambrian routes, Norfolk branches, Whitby, Skipton-Carlisle/Carnforth and in general little DMU-worked branch lines that mostly run through the middle of nowhere and don't have major freight traffic (I know the S&C is neither, but that has weather problems).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Sheffield-Hull via Selby will be wired as far as Doncaster should the route specified in Network Rail's tender for TP North be the final out turn. Doncaster-Cleethorpes and York-Scarborough are also included in the tender, so these may skip up the list :D

This is a lot more than anything the DfT has announced.
Cutting the fuel duty today doesn't do anything for the DfT's CP5 budget...
 

IanXC

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This is a lot more than anything the DfT has announced.
Cutting the fuel duty today doesn't do anything for the DfT's CP5 budget...

Much as it is lots more than the DfT has announced, Network Rail would not have issued a tender for the work to be done unless there was a reasonable prospect of it actually happening (tender: http://www.publictenders.net/node/1743751).

The fuel duty increase postponement has no specific implications for any of the DfT's budgets. Departmental spending is not hypothecated by tax income. The Chancellor has stated the duty change "...will be fully paid for by the larger-than-forecast savings in departmental budgets".
 

ushawk

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Totally missed out anywhere in Southern England !!!

Marshlink, GOBLIN, Reading - Basingstoke, North Downs, Uckfield Branch and the Salisbury "6"/West of England lines could all be electrified with the stock (which isnt that old) being moved up north to replace the older units. Its just filling in on these lines generally.
 

TrainBoy98

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Wasnt there an article in one of the railway magazines (cant remember which one) that said there was plans to electrify East Croydon-Brighton and some of the South West Mainline? The rolling stock on these lines are ready to be converted to AC Overhead when it happens. Appearently, they are going to do outsider routes first then work their way into London. Would this be the case as it would mean all the stock would have to be dual-voltage so they could go into London from their respective mainlines?
 

ainsworth74

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Skipton-Carlisle/Carnforth

You know I wouldn't totally discount the S&C. Whilst it would be far down the list it is quite an important freight artery and a WCML diversionary route. It's passenger service is limited but I wouldn't be too surprised if at some point in the future they string wires across the Ribblehead Viaduct.

Having said that another to add to you list of likely to never be wired, Bridlington - Scarborough.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Much as it is lots more than the DfT has announced, Network Rail would not have issued a tender for the work to be done unless there was a reasonable prospect of it actually happening (tender: http://www.publictenders.net/node/1743751).

The fuel duty increase postponement has no specific implications for any of the DfT's budgets. Departmental spending is not hypothecated by tax income. The Chancellor has stated the duty change "...will be fully paid for by the larger-than-forecast savings in departmental budgets".

Call me an old sceptic if you like. :D
The OJEC notice (not a Tender) is very weaselly-worded.
It looks like a notice for the ECML power upgrade, and while they are at it will cater for the electrification extensions.
It's one thing for NR to get detailed costings for the work, but quite another to get DfT approval of a business case.

There are two things in favour of getting an early go-ahead:
a) DfT (or at least the Treasury) are dead keen to announce "something"
b) the costs may well be less if done as a "big bang".

But there are many pitfalls.
Plus the railways have a long habit of coming up with the ideal plan just after the funding has evaporated.

And if Hull/Scarborough/Middlesbrough get an early nod, where does that leave Swansea and the MML?
 

rail-britain

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It doesn't seem odd to me, both the Glasgow - Kilmarnock - Stranrear and Glasgow - Kilmarnock - Carlisle services have notably low frequencies
One train per hour, same as Perth - Inverness which already has proposals for electrification
 

John55

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You know I wouldn't totally discount the S&C. Whilst it would be far down the list it is quite an important freight artery and a WCML diversionary route. It's passenger service is limited but I wouldn't be too surprised if at some point in the future they string wires across the Ribblehead Viaduct.

Having said that another to add to you list of likely to never be wired, Bridlington - Scarborough.

My understanding was the boom in freight over the S&C was mainly down to the lack of facilities in England to unload very large coal ships which led to Hunterston being used to supply Aire Valley (and other) power stations.

Now that the east coast ports are putting more facilities in place is the freight over the S&C still as great as it was say 5 years ago?

Once the current generation of coal fired stations is decommissioned is there much future for freight on the S&C? I presume any new coal fired stations ones will be built at the ports.
 

ushawk

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Wasnt there an article in one of the railway magazines (cant remember which one) that said there was plans to electrify East Croydon-Brighton and some of the South West Mainline? The rolling stock on these lines are ready to be converted to AC Overhead when it happens. Appearently, they are going to do outsider routes first then work their way into London. Would this be the case as it would mean all the stock would have to be dual-voltage so they could go into London from their respective mainlines?

Seen it posted on here a bit. Think its stupid myself, why spend billions re-electrifying lines and converting stock to AC when other lines in the UK arent electrified at all ?
 

IanXC

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Call me an old sceptic if you like. :D
The OJEC notice (not a Tender) is very weaselly-worded.
It looks like a notice for the ECML power upgrade, and while they are at it will cater for the electrification extensions.
It's one thing for NR to get detailed costings for the work, but quite another to get DfT approval of a business case.

There are two things in favour of getting an early go-ahead:
a) DfT (or at least the Treasury) are dead keen to announce "something"
b) the costs may well be less if done as a "big bang".

But there are many pitfalls.
Plus the railways have a long habit of coming up with the ideal plan just after the funding has evaporated.

And if Hull/Scarborough/Middlesbrough get an early nod, where does that leave Swansea and the MML?

What it does show a clear intention to procure the works listed. I'm not sure where you read the notice as being "weaselly-worded", although I agree that inclusion, for instance, of Cleethorpes in the final projects still far from certain.

I would have thought the reason for these works being issued as one notice is that the branches in question for the TP North project will generally be end fed. While upgrades are being undertaken to ECML feeder stations (for IEP and potentially bi mode 220s) it makes sense to ensure there is capacity to serve future electrified routes, and the logical conclusion is to include the wiring too.

Given the current economic climate it would be a braver government than the one we have to cancel funding for what was a key part of their response to the economic situation. Given how the economy has changed since the last Autumn statement in 2011, and the suggestions of policy responses from institutions such as the IMF, I think it is much more likely that further projects will be funded than existing ones cut.

As for where this leaves Swansea and the MML, I think it unfortunately leaves Swansea as less likely than Cleethorpes, although the MML is highly likely to be included in the plans for the next Control Period.

I do of course respect your scepticism, I had previously settled on the view that Scarborough and Middlesbrough would not be wired, let alone Cleethorpes, however given the balance of evidence I think we are now likely to get a more thorough project than has so far officially been announced.
 

ainsworth74

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My understanding was the boom in freight over the S&C was mainly down to the lack of facilities in England to unload very large coal ships which led to Hunterston being used to supply Aire Valley (and other) power stations.

Ahh :oops: I didn't realize that...
 

thelem

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Wasnt there an article in one of the railway magazines (cant remember which one) that said there was plans to electrify East Croydon-Brighton

I doubt that's anywhere near being on the cards - it would mean all those Thameslink trains switching from OHLE to 3rd rail for the short stretch from East Croydon to City Thameslink. You could install OHLE City Thameslink - Blackfriars or London Bridge without too much impact on other services, but any further than that and you'd be looking at new Southern and/or South Eastern rolling stock. Besides, there's just been loads of work done on Thameslink and new dual voltage trains are being ordered, so it would be an odd time to go all-OHLE.

When Network Rail reviewed the business cases for the various lines they were in two minds about whether it would be best to electrify Southampton - Bristol as OHLE or 3rd rail, so there's no massive rush to OHLE.

If 3rd rail ever is replaced with OHLE, I expect it will happen from the edges of the current 3rd rail areas: Southampton to Portsmouth (after Bristol to Southampton is electrified) then slowly moving East.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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What it does show a clear intention to procure the works listed. I'm not sure where you read the notice as being "weaselly-worded",

If it wasn't for the "estimated value" (£500m-£800m) I would have thought the OJEC entry related solely to the ECML power supply upgrade (plus capability for extension to the lines indicated).

As the power supply work seems to be a £50m-ish CP5 project, the rest must be for the electrification work which would indeed buy you a fair few miles, and it is over 7 years (2013-20).

I still see this as an invitation to bid to join an alliance with NR to do the work, rather than an ITT for the work itself.
I should think the lower figure is for the core (announced) network, the upper with the branches.
We live in hope.
 

Holly

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You should also include Crewe - Shrewsbury & Wrexham - Bidston the later can then be transfered to Mersyrail and worked using emu's
Electrification of Chester-Crewe would make possible elimination of some Crewe-London diesel under the wires running.
It would also make possible dual voltage long distance trains from Hooton, where there is lots of space for more parking and two spare platforms available.

Chester-Warrington BQ would be nice to have too. These are fairly small fill-in projects.
 

giblets

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Just a quick recap of the Network Rail Doc, top routes and their BCR, mainly as I hadn't seen it ( and am sure others can't be bothered to read it either)

Group A Conversion of Existing Passenger Routes
Basingstoke- Exeter......................3.1
North Cross-Pennine......................1.6
Cross Country..............................5.1 (if shares with Pennine above Reduces CC to 3.4, but increases Pennine BCR)
Berks and Hants...........................Infinite
Great Western Mainline..................>2.0
Birmingham Snow Hill lines...............1.0
Midland Mainline............................Infinite
Manc-Preston-Blackpool-Windemere..0.7

Group B Freight Infill Options
Gospel Oak, Barking, Thameshaven....2.4

Group C Diversionary Routes:
None

Group D New Passenger Oppurtunity:
Wolves-Shrewbury..........................1.0
 

jopsuk

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"infinite"? Really? Surely that means they should be getting done yesterday?
 

HSTEd

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"infinite"? Really? Surely that means they should be getting done yesterday?

The NR electrification RUS says that lines with positive business case have effectively infinite Socio-economic BCRs....
Obviously the Berks and Hants posits the completion of electrification of the Cross Country route prior to it though.
 
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