Electrified preserved railway?

[Vulcan]

As time progresses, more and more electric locos are being preserved as they become redundant from the main line. Already there are various electrics preserved by the AC loco group at Barrow Hill, but whats really needed is a preserved line with wires to run them on.

So as a thought to discuss, for discussions sake, what does the membership think are the chances of this happening? If not, why not? And if not, what are we going to do with all these electric locos?

Keeping them all fit for the mainline would be a huge task, and I don't think there would be that much demand for electric railtours anyway.

So over to you, discuss!

 

[generalvegitable]

until we can get a source of cheap electricity it is unlikely to happen, it is a shame but it would be great if one of the preserved railways put up some wires, but what about a 3rd rail one? aswell

 

[SouthEastern-465]

If its expensive running a normal non-electrified preserved line, and takes a reasonable amount of effort to raise the funds for running that, imagine how hard it would be to run an electrified one? Very hard.

Don't get me wrong I'm a VERY big fan of EMUs (Mainly the 3rd rail kind) and it would be nice to see a Electrified Preserved line, but I can't think where the funds to keep the line running would come from.

Maybe if there was just one dedicated line, devoted to EMUs only it may work. But in the mean time it looks like the only way of getting on a preserved Loco/EMU under there own power will have to be on tours on NR lines.

 

[WatcherZero]

Perhaps the economics would only work if some sort of isolated system could be used, i.e. the tracks/overhead is only live just infront and behind the train in say a 1km segment, as it approachs the next segment that becomes live and so on. While cheaper to operate would probably be a lot more expensive to install the regulating equipment however.

 

[LE Greys]

It turns out we already have several.

• Volks Electric Railway
• Seaton Tramway
• Beamish tramways
• East Anglian Transport Museum tramways

However, we don't have a standard gauge, main-line voltage, electric railway. In the Southern, the Lymington Branch would be an excellent preserved line. If the Southern Electric Group took it over, while keeping the service running, it would be an excellent place to run most of their old stock. Further north, Old Dalby would make an excellent preserved line for the AC Loco Group among others.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

I'd say there'd be little or no chance of it happening with mainline stock (750v 3rd rail or 25Kv OHL) because of two primary reasons.

1/ Cost, it costs serious money to install and maintain the electrical equipment, both train borne & line side, then there's the cost of the electricity itself.

2/ The H&S aspect, H&S would have a fit because of the likelihood of someone getting fried by either the 3rd rail or the 25Kv OHL and the amount of protection that the 3rd rail needs (kickboards) & anti climb stuff for the OHL structures. Then there's the training of staff to cover as well into handling of incidents involving either of the systems.

So you can see just with those two you're talking seriously BIG money!

 

[Vulcan]

Cost would be a problem, as it is for any preservation project. But as already mentioned, there are several preserved Tramways, and trolleybus routes (black country museum, etc.), So having overhead wires installed and maintained by volunteers is definately possible.

So apart from cost, is there any reason why it couldn't physically be done?

 

[Mvann]

The only other major problem is probably where would you set up. I can't see any of the present heritage line wanting to electrify there lines. Old dalby is probably the only line worth seriously looking into. For third rail, there has been suggestions of the horsted Keynes towards three bridges would tie in nicely to the bluebell railway. Swanage railway would also be ideal when the main line connection is complete as this could also expand the scope of it's public transport aims.

 

[GNER 373]

Where there's a will....there's always a way!

 

[DavyCrocket]

The only other major problem is probably where would you set up. I can't see any of the present heritage line wanting to electrify there lines. Old dalby is probably the only line worth seriously looking into. For third rail, there has been suggestions of the horsted Keynes towards three bridges would tie in nicely to the bluebell railway. Swanage railway would also be ideal when the main line connection is complete as this could also expand the scope of it's public transport aims.

Well in the 1960's Bluebell shared Horsted Keynes with Southern Electric trains!
BB own the line as far as Ardingly , then it's Network Rail to the Brighton Main Line at Haywards Heath.

There has been talk (that's all) of one day running electric trains on the Ardingly branch. I doubt it would ever happen, or there would be enough interest to make it financially viable. Then of course there is the paperwork and the safety side of it.

 

[silvermachine]

It turns out we already have several.

• Volks Electric Railway
• Seaton Tramway
• Beamish tramways
• East Anglian Transport Museum tramways

and the Manx Electric Railway....

 

[LE Greys]

and the Manx Electric Railway....

And the Snaefell Mountain Railway (sorry to the people of the Isle of Man)

 

[GNERman]

I made a thread about this a year ago and the problem is the cost and actually fitting the equipment...

 

[LE Greys]

If I wanted to be sarcastic, I would say that the Isle of Wight Railway was an electric heritage line.

 

[GearJammer]

In the Southern, the Lymington Branch would be an excellent preserved line. If the Southern Electric Group took it over, while keeping the service running, it would be an excellent place to run most of their old stock.

I wondered this myself when i was Down Lymington for the last day of the slammers, theres a fair bit of land at Brockenhurst where a shed/depot could be built (i know theres an element of fantasy here and a lot of cash being spent).

For example, 'if' i or the southern electric group bought the two Lymington CIG's, overhauled them, then offered to hire them back to SWT to use on the branch then surely SWT might/could be interested in there continued use, i mean as far as i can make out they were only withdrawn due the expensense of the overhaul that they were due?

If certain rules were drawn up between SWT, Network rail and a provider of good quility heritage EMU's then some sort of arangement could be drawn up?

As for overhead electric loco's, i think there best bet is mainline railtours!

 

[mallard]

I believe the East Kent Railway has a (very) short section of conductor rail for testing/keeping EMUs in working order...

 

[Phoenix]

It is always a possibility to electrify a heritage line or create one we all know that as they say nothings impossible the problem is though the cost's are very high and the health and safety aspects would be ludicrous.
The only possible way around the problem is.....

Buy redundent OHLE off NR next time it becomes available although were only talking about masts then you would have to purchase equipment and I would suggest going for 6.25 KV still quite harmful but pretty much eliminates arching.

After this the area of the line would have to be fully secured to trespass or contact with line equipment and all of this would be followed by only running the line for set periods of time to reduce wasted electricity costs.

The problem with the electricity itself is that you can't exactly produce that sort of voltage with a renewable local energy source so windfarms just wont cut it and belive me it would just cost a million to get a 2 mile section of single line wires up.

I would love to attempt it though maybe in the future eh ?

 

[sprinterguy]

Surely it could be possible to create a generator/battery coach that could be coupled behind an electric loco on a non electrified preserved line and would be able to provide the electricity to drive the traction motors of the electric loco. This would negate the need for OHLE, which I imagine would be unpopular amongst many preserved operations due to cost, the high voltages required and it's appearance which would spoil the "heritage" feel of the ever popular steam operations. The North Tyneside Railway Museum either had plans or are currently working on a battery unit located in a 20ton coal hopper to allow it's ex-NCB electric loco to operate without the need for OHLE.

Other than that, I would think that Old Dalby would be the best bet for an electrified preserved line with the proper overhead line, if it falls out of favour for train testing in the future, and could become a focal point for preserved electric loco operation. Perhaps, as is mentioned above, it could even be powered by renewable energy, such as it's own windfarm.

 

[WatcherZero]

Wouldnt that defeat the point of preservation though? Like having a steam train leading without its boiler being lit with a diesel at the rear pushing.

 

[sprinterguy]

Well it's deffo not a great solution for total authenticity to preserve operating electric locos in their true form admittedly, but it would allow an electric loco to operate in preservation without the need for all that complicated overhead line equipment. The electric loco would still be "taking power" in a manner, as the battery/generator coach would simply be acting as a mobile electricity generating station providing power to the traction equipment in the electric loco. Nowhere near perfect from an authenticity point of view, but if it was a viable option and no preserved lines were willing to provide a powered section of OHLE then I wouldn't mind too much if it meant that I could get some mileage behind a "proper" electric. It would also mean that a preserved electric loco could visit different preserved lines s long as it was hooked up to the power coach.

To be honest, I don't know if it WOULD be viable or not-it works for the Tyneside Railway Museum, but they are using far lower voltages than the standard 25kV AC (I think the Harton electric system was 1500V DC?), and they are also using a loco that will be drawing a lot less power than say a class 86 or 87 would (Just imagine the power supply you'd need for a preserved class 92!!!). It's just an alternative to having permanently fixed OHLE that steam and heritage diesel orientated preserved lines would prefer!
I'd much rather see a "roarer" or 87 taking juice from the overhead myself, but nonetheless, it's an alternative. I'd fully support a preserved, electrified Old Dalby though!

 

[irish whistle]

Wouldnt that defeat the point of preservation though? Like having a steam train leading without its boiler being lit with a diesel at the rear pushing.

Not neccessarily, the electric loco would still be running under its own power as opposed to being propelled by another locomotive as in the case of a steam engine being pushed by a diesel.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not neccessarily, the electric loco would still be running under its own power as opposed to being propelled by another locomotive as in the case of a steam engine being pushed by a diesel.

Precisely, the main thing that would be lost would be the sight of the raised pantograph-the electric loco would still be powered, unlike the idea of the unlit steam loco

 

[WatcherZero]

Im trying to conceptualise a power car creating 25kv then running it under the other carriages to the engine where its converted to 3kv DC (or therabouts depending on train) for the motors. In a EMU would be evern worse passing it to the front of the train then passing it back again.

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

[Deleted]

 

[Mvann]

Wasn't there some electric locos tested on the great central that were connected to a generator?

 

[Vulcan]

Didn't this happen on the Isle of Man steam railway once to run a MER tram on it?