londonbridge
Established Member
- Joined
- 30 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 1,464
I’m not disputing its right, I just want to know why it’s so high! Lizzie line is meant to be National Rail, is it not, since when was a zone 6-zone1-zone 5 NR journey £13.30??
There's a £6-7 premium (don't remember the exact amount) for EL using Heathrow's tunnels.I’m not disputing its right, I just want to know why it’s so high! Lizzie line is meant to be National Rail, is it not, since when was a zone 6-zone1-zone 5 NR journey £13.30??
There’s been a premium fare to/from Heathrow ever since TfL first took over Heathrow Connect. This shouldn’t be seen as a new feature caused by Elizabeth line opening.I’m not disputing its right, I just want to know why it’s so high! Lizzie line is meant to be National Rail, is it not, since when was a zone 6-zone1-zone 5 NR journey £13.30??
People just wanting to take a first ride to Heathrow might be encouraged to start at Hayes & Harlington, ride to Heathrow and then on to their destination and not to touch out or in at the Heathrow stations.Ah, okay, thanks for explaining. It’s just that I was over near Heathrow this morning and decided to take my first ride on the line….don’t think I’ll be using the Heathrow branch much in future then…
Elizabeth Line single fare from Heathrow is almost reaching zone 1-6 capping, so any more travel will likely be free. Quite a lot of revenue loss to TfL, especially if the tourist will continue to do many zone 1 journeys on the day.The TfL single fare finder shows Heathrow T5 Rail to East Croydon as £13.30.
The bus journey £1.65 previously added to the Z1-6 cap (£14.10) so your T5 to East Croydon journey was capped to £12.45 instead of the full £13.30.
Your journeys were charged correctly.
If you touched out at Paddington's Heathrow Express platforms (having gone via Heathrow), would you be charged the fare from Hayes & Harlington to Paddington or two maximum fares - one from Hayes and Harlington and one to Paddington HEx? (Of which the latter is the HEx fare anyway!)People just wanting to take a first ride to Heathrow might be encouraged to start at Hayes & Harlington, ride to Heathrow and then on to their destination and not to touch out or in at the Heathrow stations.
I'm almost all cases there should be enough time to do this within the maximum journey time arrangements.
You should be charged the fare from Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington - no maximum fares involved.If you touched out at Paddington's Heathrow Express platforms (having gone via Heathrow), would you be charged the fare from Hayes & Harlington to Paddington or two maximum fares - one from Hayes and Harlington and one to Paddington HEx? (Of which the latter is the HEx fare anyway!)
You mean journey planners aren't offering this. The simple fact is that if a 'cross-London' ticket is purchased it is valid this way.Something strange with connections from North Kent Line stations like Slade Green/Dartford, connecting to services north of Greater London boundary, the ticket system can't offer any via Abbey Wood and Tottenham Court Road/Canary Wharf for Euston/Paddington/Marylebone/King's Cross/ St Pancras cross-London journey despite it should be valid, no matter EZL is treated as LU-Maltese Cross or NR mode.
Seems that ABW-EZL core is not well defined in ticketing system as permitted route
If journey planners aren't offering it, few people will go that way.You mean journey planners aren't offering this. the simple fact is that if a 'cross-London' ticket is purchased it is valid this way.
If the data says it isn't the fastest route, it won't be offered. However, I did a quick search on a website for a journey of the type suggested - Dartford to Hemel Hempstead - and some of the journeys offered involved changes at Abbey Wood and Tottenham Court Road, so the post I replied to is not correct.If journey planners aren't offering it, few people will go that way.
The thing is when I searched further north like Blackpool, Manchester. I tried to force to go via TCR, no journeys can be offered. (NB, selected weekdays and Saturdays for test)If the data says it isn't the fastest route, it won't be offered. However, I did a quick search on a website for a journey of the type suggested - Dartford to Hemel Hempstead - and some of the journeys offered involved changes at Abbey Wood and Tottenham Court Road, so the post I replied to is not correct.
I would imagine that it offers Southern Eastern routes to London Bridge then the Northern Line to Euston as the fastest option. Frankly the time spent travelling from London northwards would likely dominate that trip.The thing is when I searched further north like Blackpool, Manchester. I tried to force to go via TCR, no journeys can be offered. (NB, selected weekdays and Saturdays for test)
Not just not offering, the NR journey planner even claimed that's invalid as not offering a price tag for that journey.I would imagine that it offers Southern Eastern routes to London Bridge then the Northern Line to Euston as the fastest option. Frankly the time spent travelling from London northwards would likely dominate that trip.
Out of curiosity what does the TfL route planner suggest to get to Euston?
What did the journey planner ‘claim to be invalid’?Not just not offering, the NR journey planner even claimed that's invalid as not offering a price tag for that journey
3hr44min is the via EZL itinerary, as it's invalid aa having no price on that journey.What did the journey planner ‘claim to be invalid’?
I just ran Slade Green to Euston on Fri 8 Jul at 1730 through the TfL route planner. The results are attached.The thing is when I searched further north like Blackpool, Manchester. I tried to force to go via TCR, no journeys can be offered. (NB, selected weekdays and Saturdays for test)
No, it's actually faster to go via EZL than London Bridge according to NR journey plannerI think for stations served by the fast trains from Charing Cross like Dartford Euston to Charing Cross by Northern Line then SE is quicker. As regards not being able to force an itinerary via EL this probably due to its duality i.e. It's seen as a tube line not NR by the planner.
The EL is no different to any other National Rail service in terms of how it's treated by journey planners in constructing itineraries. The schedules are output as part of the same feed, unlike the DLR or Tube where there are simply 'fixed links' which represent an approximate journey time based on average frequencies.I think for stations served by the fast trains from Charing Cross like Dartford Euston to Charing Cross by Northern Line then SE is quicker. As regards not being able to force an itinerary via EL this probably due to its duality i.e. It's seen as a tube line not NR by the planner.
The artefact that you describe may mean that certain tube routes are favoured/treated negatively.The EL is no different to any other National Rail service in terms of how it's treated by journey planners in constructing itineraries. The schedules are output as part of the same feed, unlike the DLR or Tube where there are simply 'fixed links' which represent an approximate journey time based on average frequencies.
Yeah, the problem I am concerned about is on delay repay, which if no fares displayed, may mean the journey not eligible for delay repay claims.The EL is no different to any other National Rail service in terms of how it's treated by journey planners in constructing itineraries. The schedules are output as part of the same feed, unlike the DLR or Tube where there are simply 'fixed links' which represent an approximate journey time based on average frequencies.
I'm not sure why you think this is the case? Delay Repay doesn't depend on your itinerary being one that NRE is willing to offer. Indeed in the case of a convoluted route it might well be impossible to add enough via/not via points.Yeah, the problem I am concerned about is on delay repay, which if no fares displayed, may mean the journey not eligible for delay repay claims.
Given how unreliable Southeastern and Thameslink metro can be, there's not a slim chance of miss connection.
I think I understand this concern. I once applied for delay repay with SWR but I received a rejection due to ‘your ticket not being valid on the train/route you were travelling.’ (It was)I'm not sure why you think this is the case? Delay Repay doesn't depend on your itinerary being one that NRE is willing to offer. Indeed in the case of a convoluted route it might well be impossible to add enough via/not via points.
But given that the ticket also has a Maltese cross, it would be valid on the EL even if you went by TfL's purported rules for validity.I think I understand this concern. I once applied for delay repay with SWR but I received a rejection due to ‘your ticket not being valid on the train/route you were travelling.’ (It was)
I’m assuming that @hkstudent might be concerned about this outcome.
Yeah, but in practice, delay repay officers rely on Journey Planner results to determine whether that's valid. They have no capacity in reading the guideline on Maltese Cross.But given that the ticket also has a Maltese cross, it would be valid on the EL even if you went by TfL's purported rules for validity.
I really don't think so. They will rely on the output of the delay repay software they use, which is not built to the same rules as online booking engines for instance.Yeah, but in practice, delay repay officers rely on Journey Planner results to determine whether that's valid. They have no capacity in reading the guideline on Maltese Cross.
??? Abbey Wood is one station. If you change from EL to Southeastern services the normal minimum interchange time applies, and vice versa. EL services are in the Network Rail data feed and so work in exactly the same way as any other service in terms of constructing itineraries.Furthermore, there are no official transfer time from Abbey Wood to other NR stations, which reduce the sounding of Abbey Wood being a legit cross London timing point.