Hey 3
Member
It does, yes.I thought the wiring south of Bedford needed to be upgraded to enable running above 100mph?
It does, yes.I thought the wiring south of Bedford needed to be upgraded to enable running above 100mph?
But according to the rulebook, Class 360s are not classed as as a HST form of traction but is classed as a EMU so while 222s may well be allowed to use the HST limits as per rulebook, there's nothing in it to suggest that Class 360s can use those speeds unless of course there's a pending update for it.HST speed boards apply to both HSTs and 222s.
360s will also be able to use the highest speed available (up to their maximum speed of 110mph) as their braking performance is superior to both 222 and HST.
But according to the rulebook, Class 360s are not classed as as a HST form of traction but is classed as a EMU so while 222s may well be allowed to use the HST limits as per rulebook, there's nothing in it to suggest that Class 360s can use those speeds unless of course there's a pending update for it.
More then likely but I'm just raising a valid question on what speed limits the fleet will be allowed to use in service.Phrasing this as gently as I can, do you not think it’s quite likely that someone might have thought of this already and it’s all under control?
More likely just an update to the sectional appendix.
There’s no particular urgency as the wires won’t be ready for a couple of years yet (which is also why the 810s will be diesel-under-the-wires south of Bedford at first).
360's will have to run at 100 mph between London and Bedford, then 110 mph between Bedford and Corby/Market Harbrough(if they ever will)Although the wires South of Bedford are limited to 100mph, I thought that they would allow 110mph Northwards from Corby Electrics service introduction. There's no non-HST fast trains on the latter section - will the 360s definitely be allowed 110mph when the service starts?
'No particular urgency' also seems to apply to the 360 refurbishment. I hope it's not becoming a trend...
No. The 360s are pretty much perfect, reliable EMUs and small number of them (EMR don't have that many electric services). The only thing which could make them better would be end gangways and considering how similar they are to 350s (the 360/2s used to have a gangway before conversion) I wouldn't call it impossible. The 180s are getting replaced (along with the 222s) because they aren't really suitable anymore, EMR/DfT want bimodes to use the wires part way along the route, and the first one has terrible reliability.Speaking of the 360's, has EMR ordered a brand new replacement or have they not?
The slow lines north of Wellingborough are limited to 90mph, which the 360s will need to use in order to get to Corby. As for the Wellingborough to Bedford stretch, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the slows won't be 110 rated and I don't know if the 360s will use the fasts or slows.360's will have to run at 100 mph between London and Bedford, then 110 mph between Bedford and Corby/Market Harbrough(if they ever will)
Speaking of the 360's, has EMR ordered a brand new replacement or have they not?
EMR only need to sort out the rolling stock requirements up to the end of their franchise (as originally planned) and the 360s are certainly more than capable of meeting the need for that length of time - assuming the interior refurbishment goes ahead and delivers a good uplift in quality. Fitting end gangways would involve cutting out and replacing the major structural members in the vehicle end as well as all the cab controls and wiring - not going to happen.No. The 360s are pretty much perfect, reliable EMUs and small number of them (EMR don't have that many electric services). The only thing which could make them better would be end gangways and considering how similar they are to 350s (the 360/2s used to have a gangway before conversion) I wouldn't call it impossible. The 180s are getting replaced (along with the 222s) because they aren't really suitable anymore, EMR/DfT want bimodes to use the wires part way along the route, and the first one has terrible reliability.
Fasts between Bedford and Wellinborough according to Modern Railways a few months back.The slow lines north of Wellingborough are limited to 90mph, which the 360s will need to use in order to get to Corby. As for the Wellingborough to Bedford stretch, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the slows won't be 110 rated and I don't know if the 360s will use the fasts or slows.
To Mkt Harborough, there are some 110 sections but if the 360s are classed as an EMU instead of an HST then they'll be limited to 100mph anyway.
The slow lines north of Wellingborough are limited to 90mph, which the 360s will need to use in order to get to Corby. As for the Wellingborough to Bedford stretch, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the slows won't be 110 rated and I don't know if the 360s will use the fasts or slows.
To Mkt Harborough, there are some 110 sections but if the 360s are classed as an EMU instead of an HST then they'll be limited to 100mph anyway.
There's no reason why they can't. The UKMS cantilevers (both on UKMS100 &UKMS125) are capable of 300mm uplift (although the system manual dictates a maximum of 250mm), and Mk3 deep-curved arms (as seen on headspans) have 300mm uplift too. The legacy single track cantilevers, however, only allow for 160mm uplift, which is insufficient for 3 pans. 100mph is the changeover point for this.Although the wires South of Bedford are limited to 100mph, I thought that they would allow 110mph Northwards from Corby Electrics service introduction. There's no non-HST fast trains on the latter section - will the 360s definitely be allowed 110mph when the service starts?
Why would they need gangways? No portion working, no trolleys... guards?No. The 360s are pretty much perfect, reliable EMUs and small number of them (EMR don't have that many electric services). The only thing which could make them better would be end gangways and considering how similar they are to 350s (the 360/2s used to have a gangway before conversion) I wouldn't call it impossible.
Uneven loading going out of St Pancras, especially if they continue EMT's frequent peak hour practice of not opening the gate to the platform until a few minutes before departure.Why would they need gangways? No portion working, no trolleys... guards?
Uneven loading going out of St Pancras, especially if they continue EMT's frequent peak hour practice of not opening the gate to the platform until a few minutes before departure.
In the discussion about cl 360 gangways, there's one feature of the future timetable that might be crucial.
We are told that the journey time Northwards beyond Kettering (for passengers from stations to the South) will be hardly any longer than at present because there will be 5 minute connections there.
Changing trains at Kettering involves crossing from slow to fast line platforms and inevitably involves using the footbridge, which is at the South end of the platform. I would suggest that to walk from the front set of a 12 car 360 and cross the bridge will take up most of the available time - with the added complication that the footbridge then deposits the passenger opposite the first class of a down express.
I suppose you could instruct passengers changing to travel in the rear four cars, but these are likely to be filled by passengers joining at St Pancras.
Though the rear 4 cars will empty out on the northward run, to be filled with (probably fewer) passengers joining at Luton Airport, Bedford etc. who will be changing at Kettering. i.e. more passengers will get off than will get on (in all likelihood)
You wouldn't be getting on at St Pancras if you were changing at Kettering; you'd get a direct train!
Not necessarily. Formations on the MML can be either way round: a 222 arriving at Derby at the end of the day from London with first class at the south end might well go to Nottingham the following morning, which puts first class at the north end.with the added complication that the footbridge then deposits the passenger opposite the first class of a down express.
Or heads North from Leicester to London via Manton Jnc or into Sheffield via Beighton.Not necessarily. Formations on the MML can be either way round: a 222 arriving at Derby at the end of the day from London with first class at the south end might well go to Nottingham the following morning, which puts first class at the north end.
Not necessarily. Formations on the MML can be either way round: a 222 arriving at Derby at the end of the day from London with first class at the south end might well go to Nottingham the following morning, which puts first class at the north end.
The DATS test train has been involved in testing with 3 pantograph raised for some time.360 / OHLE testing continues at a pace at the moment, with the 360s now operating up to 110. Also to note is that they’re now testing them / the OHLE with all 3 pantographs up, as this screenshot of a tweet from Gary Keenor shows.
So far, Realtime trains timings indicate 21.5 mins St Pancras to Luton Airport vice 21 mins for a 222, and 14.5 mins Luton to Bedford vice 12.5 mins for a 222. Bedford to Wellingborough will be only a minute slower for the 360's. And Wellingborough to Kettering is timed to be 1 mins slower for a 360 than a 222.The slow lines north of Wellingborough are limited to 90mph, which the 360s will need to use in order to get to Corby. As for the Wellingborough to Bedford stretch, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the slows won't be 110 rated and I don't know if the 360s will use the fasts or slows.
To Mkt Harborough, there are some 110 sections but if the 360s are classed as an EMU instead of an HST then they'll be limited to 100mph anyway.
The DATS test train has been involved in testing with 3 pantograph raised for some time.
And Wellingborough to Kettering is timed to be 1 mins slower for a 360 than a 222.
Are you sure that’s Corby bound 222s, as opposed to stoppers heading further north on the fasts?
I’d be astonished if 222s going to Corby aren’t slower than predicted 360 timings, given that both will be checked down for Kettering South, both are 110mph max on the down, and 360s accelerate rather better.
Very appropriate positioning for the parked electric car!360 / OHLE testing continues at a pace at the moment, with the 360s now operating up to 110. Also to note is that they’re now testing them / the OHLE with all 3 pantographs up, as this screenshot of a tweet from Gary Keenor shows.