A downside to the 170s (apart from the ex Southerns), which, hopefully, the refurbished air con units will make a difference.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments
- Thread starter londonmidland
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Don't think so, I think by the time the 158 fleet is all done they'll have so little time left it's not worth it - at the minute I think the current plan is an upgraded version of the existing PIS software on 170s rather than TrainFX.
anamyd
Established Member
- Joined
- 17 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 3,038
Not 444 170s (considering that there are only 122 170s, and even if all 168s and 171s were converted to 170s, there would still only be 167 170s), but 444 Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning modules from the combined 72 170s of CrossCountry and East Midlands Railway, I believeTidyco has won a contract from Porterbrook to overhaul the air conditioning and ventilation system for 444 170s, including those with EMR.
Tidyco to overhaul Class 170 HVAC units
UK: Porterbrook Leasing has awarded Tidyco a contract to overhaul and refurbish 444 cab and saloon heating, ventilation and air-conditioning modules from ADtranz/Bombardier Class 170 Turbostar diesel multiple-units operated by East Midlands Railway and CrossCountry. Porterbrook and Tidyco have...www.railwaygazette.com
Good news for passengers, especially those on EMR's Liverpool-Norwich service, which often uses the 170.
Big Regional Refurb: EMR release first images of refurbishment plans | East Midlands Railway News
• EMR releases first conceptual images of Class 170 and Class 158 refurbishment• £28.2 million project will provide more comfort and better facilities• Work to be carried out by UK-based companies
news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
Public update and renders released today.
QSK19
Member
Looks very swish indeed - let’s see if the end result meets expectations.
Nevertheless, hopefully we’ll see something on the 360s soon! Would have thought they’re more of a pressing need given that, AIUI, Connect is more important from a revenue point of view than Regional?
Nevertheless, hopefully we’ll see something on the 360s soon! Would have thought they’re more of a pressing need given that, AIUI, Connect is more important from a revenue point of view than Regional?
Like today, perhaps?
The Big Regional refurb: First glimpse of £27.6 million EMR Connect plans | East Midlands Railway News
First conceptual images of new multi-million refurbishment released Class 360 trains will receive extensive improvement Changes include new 2+2 seating arrangements, tables and more luggage space
news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
The 158 refresh is a little more than I expected, with the walls being repainted too! I do wonder if 889 will be included though given it’s completely different interior to the rest of the native fleet.Big Regional Refurb: EMR release first images of refurbishment plans | East Midlands Railway News
• EMR releases first conceptual images of Class 170 and Class 158 refurbishment• £28.2 million project will provide more comfort and better facilities• Work to be carried out by UK-based companies
Public update and renders released today.
Both look good, although I’m surprised at the lack of luggage racks for the 360s given their additional Airport Express status.
Attachments
QSK19
Member
They must have read my mindLike today, perhaps?
Having taken all this in, my thoughts are that maybe they’ve done slightly too much with the 158s. When writing that, I don’t want to sound like I’m spoilt - it’s absolutely great that the 158 refurb includes all of that, but they’re probably only going to be in the fleet for a relatively short time that they probably only need a deep clean, seat covers and any essential repairs doing - wouldn’t have thought that brand new tables or wall redecorations are needed, for example. The really pressing needs are for the 170s to be upgraded to a high quality, uniform standard (given that they’re an eclectic mix from various TOCs) and the 360 refurb to be done asap.
So, maybe some of the 158 refurb money could have been directed to 170 or 360 budgets; but, as I say, I won’t complain at what can only be a good thing for the non-IC fleet.
Last edited:
tram21
Member
Anybody know the timescale for these refurbishments to start?
They're spending hardly anything on the 158s by comparison and it's only stuff that really needs doing.They must have read my mind
Having taken all this in, my thoughts are that maybe they’ve done slightly too much with the 158s. When writing that, I don’t want to sound like I’m spoilt - it’s absolutely great that the 158 refurb includes all of that, but they’re probably only going to be in the fleet for a relatively short time that they probably only need a deep clean, seat covers and any essential repairs doing - wouldn’t have thought that brand new tables or wall redecorations are needed, for example. The really pressing needs are for the 170s to be upgraded to a high quality, uniform standard (given that they’re an eclectic mix from various TOCs) and the 360 refurb to be done asap.
So, maybe some of the 158 refurb money could have been directed to 170 or 360 budgets; but, as I say, I won’t complain at what can only be a good thing for the non-IC fleet.
From the Class 360 thread, posted 1 March:
Whether or not that's still the current position (and if that also applies to the 158s and/or 170s), only those in the industry will know.
MCR247
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2008
- Messages
- 9,959
I’m surprised they’ve gone with such light, or pale looking seats. Seems a bit of a recipe for disaster.
Spot on, this still stands. I just have reservations that it’s going to be on time. Avanti can get 500+ coaches done and finished and they look great, but as we know, the MML is the poor relation so let’s wait and see if they really do get given the resources to get this done once and for all.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Wasn’t it posted in a derogation document that only the 170/5s will get the new seats, to replace the Lazarinis, and the /2 and /4 will keep the Chapmans?
danbarjon
Member
I may just be dense but to me it looks like their are putting tables where the currently wheelchair spaces are on the Class 170s...Big Regional Refurb: EMR release first images of refurbishment plans | East Midlands Railway News
• EMR releases first conceptual images of Class 170 and Class 158 refurbishment• £28.2 million project will provide more comfort and better facilities• Work to be carried out by UK-based companies
Public update and renders released today.
That's a mistake in the mock ups, there will indeed be a wheelchair and bike space there
blueberry11
Member
Maybe the current EMR 158s are alright. I have never been on the EMR service when it was known as East Midlands Trains but my guess is that it was last refurbished in 2008. I just hope the seats are not uncomfortable like some of the other new trains (ie, like or better than the 2019 Greater Anglia 745/755 sets).
Also, does the current EMR 158 have CCTV since that page stated that it will be installed/refitted? I always thought it does (like the current Central line).
Also, does the current EMR 158 have CCTV since that page stated that it will be installed/refitted? I always thought it does (like the current Central line).
I seem to remember that as part of the franchise agreement EMR agreed to upgrade the Class 170‘s. Years later the work has progressed to computer generated images but when is the actual start and completion dates, as they have kept quiet on that point. Also there will be a seat reduction so more standing passengers.
Last edited:
Start back end of this year, finished for 2027, so 2 and a bit years to get through 50 odd units of 158/170.
QSK19
Member
Won’t the 158s be at or near the end of their lease by 2027? Unless this is a sign that the lease will be extended on the basis that there is no point spending money on them if they’re going to leave the fleet soon thereafter anyway?
Nevertheless, I’m amazed that the DfT has actually kept to its promise and signed off a thorough refurbishment - I was expecting it to be downgraded to merely seat cover changes and deep clean!
The current thinking is the 158s are earmarked to be withdrawn in 2030 with work to start fairly soon on proposals for replacing them (note - start - no guarantee of any visible outputs for some years to come).
The 158 work is basically seat cover changes, carpets, the wall covering, a deep clean, upgraded CCTV and some hidden repairs the passenger wouldn't see to things like ceiling panels.
The 170 is more thorough.
QSK19
Member
Many thanks for explaining and sounds promising!
Do you happen to know what the plan for 889 is given it’s Non-Standard nature in the fleet?
Originally a plan had been put together and submitted to standardise it but I have heard whispers that given the limited life span of the fleet and how things have run on time wise that it'll just be left as is. I assume it'll get the purple treatment though it was only sent away for an overhaul at the same time as the SWR units. The only problem is spares are an issue if anything breaks.
Snow1964
Established Member
Some details of contract for cctv and apc (automatic passenger counting) have been released. Seems the apc will be able to give operators historical occupancy data which presumably means in future will be able to determine where trains need lengthening (although doesn't mean they will actually do so if busy)
Information systems provider lands two contracts worth £3m | TheBusinessDesk.com
Contracts include providing onboard CCTV and APC solutions for specific train fleets
www.thebusinessdesk.com
Last edited:
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I assume the 170 the fleet is also getting charging points, and did I not read somewhere that most of the 158 had USB installed a few years back
InTheEastMids
Member
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 981
It would be such a railway thing to do. Spend millions on systems to capture passenger usage data and then do nothing with it because lack of stock, route clearance, staffing issues, platform lengths etc...Some details of contract for cctv and apc (automatic passenger counting) have been released. Seems the apc will be able to give operators historical occupancy data which presumably means in future will be able to determine where trains need lengthening (although doesn't mean they will actually do so if busy)
Information systems provider lands two contracts worth £3m | TheBusinessDesk.com
Contracts include providing onboard CCTV and APC solutions for specific train fleetswww.thebusinessdesk.com
londonmidland
Established Member
I think just over half of the 158s have USB sockets fitted to them. These being the Angel owned sets.
RUK
Member
Presumably the data collected would be input into the calculations to determine the number of units, and the number of carriages per unit, in the order to replace the Class 158s (and Class 170s), when the time comes?
Regional bi-modes would suggest/point towards FLIRTs like the Class 755s, unless a variant of the CAF Civity product ordered for LNER for their Inter-City services might also fit, or someone else offers a product that fits?
Last edited: