EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[LowLevel]

Indeed, cannot see the point of why you’d want to remove them.

They don't lock properly, they're a bit draughty and they don't really seem to provide much ventilation, but I suppose they don't do much harm in being there! At least one set had one or two stuck open all summer once they were opened for the inevitable broken air conditioning.

 

[sbrignall72]

Is 158856 going to be next once it has been repaired following last year's incident with a tree.

 

[Fincra5]

They don't lock properly, they're a bit draughty and they don't really seem to provide much ventilation, but I suppose they don't do much harm in being there! At least one set had one or two stuck open all summer once they were opened for the inevitable broken air conditioning.

They're better than No ventilation when the AC fails! Locked fine on SN...

 

[trebor79]

Does this mean the end of the oddball 158 that still has the original seats and first class section. Was lucky enough to be on it Ely to Norwich the other week. It will be missed!

 

[transportphoto]

Does this mean the end of the oddball 158 that still has the original seats and first class section. Was lucky enough to be on it Ely to Norwich the other week. It will be missed!

No. It’ll be about for some time.

 

[LowLevel]

They're better than No ventilation when the AC fails! Locked fine on SN...

Personally I had the hope that when we upgraded from our 153s and 156s that they would just treat the AC in a sealed tube to be an essential part of the train and actually maintain it in the same way the engines and brakes are.

Nah, they still kick them out all summer with the units isolated by the depot awaiting contractors attention.

My problem with the windows is that it gives them an excuse to keep running the things around for weeks/months waiting to be fixed properly, but given that occurs without the windows objection withdrawn

 

[bunnahabhain]

I don't think they will be, they scroll too slowly. I prefer orange dot matrix personally.

From the concept images released by EMR of the refurbishment, they seem to have orange/yellow dot matrix with EMR Regional Class 170 displaying without a destination set.

Not the same type, the screens will be LCD and will be capable of displaying a lot more than just the PIS. Think along the lines of the Eurostar screens which display information about the journey etc. There aren't currently any plans for that to be used however its possible in the future. First 170 is about a month away from coming back.

 

[reecestrains]

Not the same type, the screens will be LCD and will be capable of displaying a lot more than just the PIS. Think along the lines of the Eurostar screens which display information about the journey etc. There aren't currently any plans for that to be used however its possible in the future. First 170 is about a month away from coming back.

Ah okay, similar to the 373 or 374 by any chance? I know the 374 has coloured screens in the coaches.

It'll be interesting to see either way in the new year when it's out and the functionality of it.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Ah okay, similar to the 373 or 374 by any chance? I know the 374 has coloured screens in the coaches.

It'll be interesting to see either way in the new year when it's out and the functionality of it.

No, they are horizontal and will be going in the same locations as the current screens, I believe they will be slightly angled to maximise visibility too.

 

[Discuss223]

Is 158856 going to be next once it has been repaired following last year's incident with a tree.

Last year? Do you mean earlier this year? Or has this unit been out of use since 2013? It seems like a long time for a train to lay dormant you see.

Personally I had the hope that when we upgraded from our 153s and 156s that they would just treat the AC in a sealed tube to be an essential part of the train and actually maintain it in the same way the engines and brakes are.

Nah, they still kick them out all summer with the units isolated by the depot awaiting contractors attention.

My problem with the windows is that it gives them an excuse to keep running the things around for weeks/months waiting to be fixed properly, but given that occurs without the windows objection withdrawn

The problem with hoppers such as on 158s and 170s is that there just isn't enough of them to create enough of a breeze. Class 156s with the windows open was fine on a warm day (except for when the engine overheated and heat was dispersed through the radiators!).

The Class 158s were originally fitted with very good air conditioning but unfortunately, the EU banned that type of system and it was replaced with the lacklustre Leibhrr systems and has been troublesome ever since.

I agree with you that climate control should be of importance in the train being serviceable. I recall in the heatwave of 2019, an EMT driver refused to drive his train as the cab was too warm and the fan wasn't working. It's not good for safety critical staff to be in uncomfortable conditions, the last thing anyone wants is a driver fainting whilst in traction!

 

[reecestrains]

No, they are horizontal and will be going in the same locations as the current screens, I believe they will be slightly angled to maximise visibility too.

So you're saying similar to the current ones but new technology if I'm right of thinking?

 

[tfw756rider]

So you're saying similar to the current ones but new technology if I'm right of thinking?

The impression I'm getting is of "stretched bar" displays. They're high-resolution screens (as in, capable of displaying text in fonts, as well as graphics, and can be full-colour), but are very wide but short-height, so they can fit in the same space as the 170s' original amber dot-matrix LED displays.

In terms of trains with the "stretched bar" screens, I've so far travelled on 231s, 345s, 700s, 730s, 756s, and 805s+807s (in the locations where the green dot-matrix LED displays are on GWR 800s/802s).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Sounds horribly like the rubbish ones fitted to 172s.

 

[reecestrains]

I'm hoping they'll be slightly different to the 172's as they only display a single line and scroll ridiculously slow.
The current screens have two lines of text, which is capable of displaying more information.

 

[tfw756rider]

Sounds horribly like the rubbish ones fitted to 172s.

Hopefully they won't be.

I'm hoping they'll be slightly different to the 172's as they only display a single line and scroll ridiculously slow.
The current screens have two lines of text, which is capable of displaying more information.

I hope so too, good points. Hopefully the new screens on the refurbished East Midlands Railway 170s will be full-featured "stretched bars" like the ones fitted to the newest classes of train, though I suppose it depends on whether or not they'll be crammed into the original housings - does anyone know what approach is being taken with this? The mention of them being angled/tilted down suggests that the original housings may indeed not be re-used, but I suppose anything is possible?

I had to look to see what you meant, because I only travelled on the 172 /0/2/3 units (with the "rubbish" screens) in 2022, whereas the 172s I travelled on most recently were 172/1 units in 2023 and 2024, which still had the "replica" versions of the original 170 two-line amber dot-matrix LED displays (as in the same appearance and functionality, but with a different, more "camera-friendly" refresh rate).

 

[reecestrains]

The earliest we're gonna find out is once this first 170 comes into service in January/February.

TrainFX on Northern's 170's are crap, and no one can tell me otherwise. Not suitable for that type of train.

 

[Trainman40083]

The earliest we're gonna find out is once this first 170 comes into service in January/February.

TrainFX on Northern's 170's are crap, and no one can tell me otherwise. Not suitable for that type of train.

First 170 due out is 170501 isn't it?

 

[transportphoto]

TrainFX on Northern's 170's are crap, and no one can tell me otherwise. Not suitable for that type of train.

I believe EMR 170s are safe from TrainFX (upgrading the system currently fitted). 158s will be TrainFX system of some description (again, as present).

 

[tram21]

First 170 due out is 170501 isn't it?

Yes, and as referenced above in around a month.

Looking forward to riding it!

 

[bunnahabhain]

So you're saying similar to the current ones but new technology if I'm right of thinking?

In theory, yes. It's an upgraded version of what was originally fitted to the 170s. Developed by Bombardier/Alstom. At one stage the EMR and XC fleet were going to be fitted with TrainFX but it isn't the best of systems and this alternative system has been developed. It utilises new and refurbished equipment (mostly new) so the input from a traincrew perspective is identical to current. The TrainFX input system is more cumbersome.

New desti, new screens, new aerial, refurbished cab control unit (CACU) and saloon handsets, and then there's a big metal box of gizmos, I can't remember if that's new, a replacement, or a refurbished part. I've held them in my hands. They're much better than the original system and the TrainFX system.

I believe EMR 170s are safe from TrainFX (upgrading the system currently fitted). 158s will be TrainFX system of some description (again, as present).

158s are getting the upgrade to Darwin functionality and there are also trials ongoing with digitising the PA signal to get rid of the resistance causing the audibility to be negligible.

First 170 due out is 170501 isn't it?

Yep. But the XC version should be coming out first.

 

[tfw756rider]

In theory, yes. It's an upgraded version of what was originally fitted to the 170s. Developed by Bombardier/Alstom. At one stage the EMR and XC fleet were going to be fitted with TrainFX but it isn't the best of systems and this alternative system has been developed. It utilises new and refurbished equipment (mostly new) so the input from a traincrew perspective is identical to current. The TrainFX input system is more cumbersome.

New desti, new screens,

Would it be OK to share with us exactly what the new screens will be like? Will they be like a variant of say the 730 screens?

And will they be full-size, "free-mounted" versions or will they be made to fit into the existing housings, albeit with the slight downward tilt previously mentioned?

 

[reecestrains]

In theory, yes. It's an upgraded version of what was originally fitted to the 170s. Developed by Bombardier/Alstom. At one stage the EMR and XC fleet were going to be fitted with TrainFX but it isn't the best of systems and this alternative system has been developed. It utilises new and refurbished equipment (mostly new) so the input from a traincrew perspective is identical to current. The TrainFX input system is more cumbersome.

New desti, new screens, new aerial, refurbished cab control unit (CACU) and saloon handsets, and then there's a big metal box of gizmos, I can't remember if that's new, a replacement, or a refurbished part. I've held them in my hands. They're much better than the original system and the TrainFX system.


158s are getting the upgrade to Darwin functionality and there are also trials ongoing with digitising the PA signal to get rid of the resistance causing the audibility to be negligible.


Yep. But the XC version should be coming out first.

Are they in the process of getting refurbished yet? I thought EMR's were gonna be the first out refurbished.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Would it be OK to share with us exactly what the new screens will be like? Will they be like a variant of say the 730 screens?

And will they be full-size, "free-mounted" versions or will they be made to fit into the existing housings, albeit with the slight downward tilt previously mentioned?

Similar to what TrainFX have used I'd say. New housings.

Are they in the process of getting refurbished yet? I thought EMR's were gonna be the first out refurbished.

I thought they were being done alongside each other hence the joint procurement by the ROSCO. 501 is the first EMR unit and you're going to see that done by February, but my understanding is that an XC unit will be done first.

 

[reecestrains]

I thought they were being done alongside each other hence the joint procurement by the ROSCO. 501 is the first EMR unit and you're going to see that done by February, but my understanding is that an XC unit will be done first.

I haven't heard anything yet regarding XC's 170 Refurbishments and which units are currently underway unless that's been posted in another thread somewhere.

 

[tfw756rider]

Similar to what TrainFX have used I'd say. New housings.

Similar to what TrainFX have used on what class of train? When TrainFX is mentioned, we think of the single-line amber dot-matrix displays, but I'm guessing you mean a better type of screen than that (and the original 170 two-line amber dot-matrix displays)? Something high-resolution and full-colour-capable?

 

[dosxuk]

The current screens have two lines of text, which is capable of displaying more information.

If you mean the TrainFX screens fitted to the 158 fleet, then they are a perfect demonstration of more information isn't always good information. They would be much better as a single line, scrolling display than the current word soup they display over two lines. The current presentation is appalling and I don't understand how it actually got inflicted on the public without someone asking if there was a better way.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Similar to what TrainFX have used on what class of train? When TrainFX is mentioned, we think of the single-line amber dot-matrix displays, but I'm guessing you mean a better type of screen than that (and the original 170 two-line amber dot-matrix displays)? Something high-resolution and full-colour-capable?

Yes high resolution and full colour.

 

[reecestrains]

If you mean the TrainFX screens fitted to the 158 fleet, then they are a perfect demonstration of more information isn't always good information. They would be much better as a single line, scrolling display than the current word soup they display over two lines. The current presentation is appalling and I don't understand how it actually got inflicted on the public without someone asking if there was a better way.

I'm not talking about the 158's at all. I'm talking about the 170's and how the original screens are better than Northern's crap TrainFX on their 170's.

 

[reecestrains]

What will the new screens be like on the 170's EMR and XC? I'll make my own judgement then.

I get the impression that @reecestrains is referring to the original 170 two-line amber dot-matrix LED displays.

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Liam L]

Yep. But the XC version should be coming out first.

Slightly off topic for this thread but any ideas on the number of the XC Unit?