EMT: Master Cutler Issues

[222001]

Something I thought you might be interested in.
It seems that EMT are having massive issues with the 0727 Master Cutler service. I signed up to their www.eastmidlandstrainssales.co.uk website a while back which is basically for travel agents and sellers of their tickets.
Anyway they send emails about any news or problems within EMT and when I checked my inbox today there are no less than 5 emails from them basically saying the Master Cutler is full. Here are a couple of examples:
from 12th December:
Please note; First class reservations are now fully booked for both Monday and Tuesday the 15th and 16th December 2008 for the 0727. There are a few seats still available to book but these are in the dining carriage. (since when have Meridians had a "dining carriage"?)
from 6th January:
Please note; It was reported that the 0727 Master Cutler service this morning was full and standing in First class from Sheffield. For anyone wishing to travel on the 0727 we recommend they reserve a seat.

Full and standing from SHEFFIELD! EMT really have to sort something out here! It must be deathly by Leicester!!!

 

[yorkie]

EMT are a terrible company and their timetabling is abysmal.

 

[westcoaster]

nolonger fast from chesterfield.

 

[richa2002]

Shove a Pullman HST on it like before and then everyone's happy. But of course not, that would show EMT were wrong to put a Meridian and they're too stubborn to admit that.

 

[yorkie]

It's a DMU?! Have they formed enough FC coaches on it? is there a Cutler DMU set now? What has happened to the Cutler HST set? FC coach removed and turned into a normal set now?

They really are an absolute joke!

 

[Max]

Something I thought you might be interested in.
It seems that EMT are having massive issues with the 0727 Master Cutler service. I signed up to their www.eastmidlandstrainssales.co.uk website a while back which is basically for travel agents and sellers of their tickets.
Anyway they send emails about any news or problems within EMT and when I checked my inbox today there are no less than 5 emails from them basically saying the Master Cutler is full. Here are a couple of examples:
from 12th December:
Please note; First class reservations are now fully booked for both Monday and Tuesday the 15th and 16th December 2008 for the 0727. There are a few seats still available to book but these are in the dining carriage. (since when have Meridians had a "dining carriage"?)
from 6th January:
Please note; It was reported that the 0727 Master Cutler service this morning was full and standing in First class from Sheffield. For anyone wishing to travel on the 0727 we recommend they reserve a seat.

Full and standing from SHEFFIELD! EMT really have to sort something out here! It must be deathly by Leicester!!!

The decision to make this service a Meridian was a disaster. This was the premier service to St Pancras, and thus has traditionally been a very busy service, particularly with business travellers. The cause is pretty obvious - the fact that the service has lost about 50 first class seats!

 

[Phoenix]

Last time I was on the cutler in November it was Hst set so when did that change.

 

[Max]

It's a DMU?! Have they formed enough FC coaches on it? is there a Cutler DMU set now? What has happened to the Cutler HST set? FC coach removed and turned into a normal set now?

They really are an absolute joke!

A 7 car meridian is now used over an 8 car HST. First class has taken the brunt of the reduction in capacity, down from around 150 to 100 seats.

 

[yorkie]

I thought FC was pretty full when they used the HST with extra FC coach so surely even a village idiot could work out that the replacement mid-range rattling DMU would not provide enough capacity? What numpties they are!

I knew they were bad but I didn't realise they were this bad! I had no idea until today that they had completely ruined their flagship service!

 

[Max]

In reality, the only thing they could do now to fix this problem is start the service from Leeds again using a HST, and cut back one of the current Leeds services to Sheffield utilising the 7 car meridian. Something will have to be done, or else I can see a lot of FC passengers shifting to NXEC.

 

[me123]

What they need to do is continue to use Meridians where this is suitable for the passenger numbers, but get the HSTs back on for the Cutler and other such services! Or at least double up Meridians.

I'm not local, but I don't disagree with the general principle of having Meridians on certain Sheffield services; it makes sense. But to run 5 car trains at peak times on such a route is bordering on insane. I hope someone sees sense and that the diagrams can be altered slightly to allocate the capacity where it is needed.

 

[Ilove165's]

Last time I was on the cutler in November it was Hst set so when did that change.

Probably at the start of the new timetable.

I would have thought they would have put a 8/9-car meridian to replace the HST...just my idea

Sam

 

[Craig]

In reality, the only thing they could do now to fix this problem is start the service from Leeds again using a HST, and cut back one of the current Leeds services to Sheffield utilising the 7 car meridian.

It would make sense to have the 0634 ex Leeds running non-stop from Chesterfield to St Pancras as the Master Cutler. The Meridian could start from Sheffield at more or less the same time and run via Nottingham in the HSTs path.

If they did this they might also manage to poach some passengers from National Express too. The 0634 currently arrives into St Pancras at 1019, whereas the 0640 NXEC departure arrives into Kings Cross at 0848...

 

[222001]

I can see the May timetable change being quite an important one... 5 car Meridians to Sheffield is insane! I was on the 0927 from Sheffield to London which was a 5 car Meridian and by Leicester first class was all full (no-one standing though) and they had stopped using the trolley and opened up the buffet so I assume standard was rammed.
The 0727 needs to be a HST no matter what! Stick the Meridian on the 0744 service which for some reason misses out Chesterfield (the only weekday EMT service to do so).

 

[Max]

Probably at the start of the new timetable.

I would have thought they would have put a 8/9-car meridian to replace the HST...just my idea

Sam

It could only be 10 car, as it would have been extremely costly to reform a meridian just for one service. Plus, this would have reduced the length of another meridian where, potentially, the capacity is needed. Sadly, because of the fact that a 5 car meridian only carries 50 first class seats, FC capacity on 2 x 5 car meridians would actually be lower than on a 7 car.

 

[Mintona]

I love how Yorkie only ever focuses on the negatives of absolutely everything.
He seems to dislike everything that everyone on the railways does so much (except GC with their precious Valentas), I don't even know why he bothers with a "rail enthusiast" site.

Probably at the start of the new timetable.

I would have thought they would have put a 8/9-car meridian to replace the HST...just my idea

Sam

They are all either 7 or 5 car now.

 

[Max]

I love how Yorkie only ever focuses on the negatives of absolutely everything.
He seems to dislike everything that everyone on the railways does so much (except GC with their precious Valentas), I don't even know why he bothers with a "rail enthusiast" site.

Do you see any positives from this thread? :?

 

[Mintona]

Do you see any positives from this thread? :?

EMT tried to do something bold, something adventurous to see what happened. It didn't work, so I hope they resolve that in the next timetable change. That doesn't make them "a joke" and "a terrible company".

 

[222001]

EMT tried to do something bold, something adventurous to see what happened. It didn't work, so I hope they resolve that in the next timetable change. That doesn't make them "a joke" and "a terrible company".

Yeah, they are a good company, just their timetabling is shocking in some places. And at least they are trying to send the message out to use another service, most TOCs would do nothing.
But If they don't change this problem at the next timetable change my opinion of them will be lowered.

 

[Craig]

Were EMT solely responsible for the timetable change, or was it influenced by the DfT/NR?

 

[yorkie]

IIRC, it was a suggestion by EMT which the DfT agreed to.

I love how Yorkie only ever focuses on the negatives of absolutely everything.
He seems to dislike everything that everyone on the railways does so much (except GC with their precious Valentas), I don't even know why he bothers with a "rail enthusiast" site.

I am pro-customer, rather than pro-TOC and if you don't like that, tough! I despise the "customer is always wrong" attitude which a sizeable minority of rail companies and staff appear to have. As for GC, I don't blindly support them in everything that they do; I have pointed out areas where they could do better.

EMT are a joke in my opinion. If you think EMT have done things better than MML, then lets see the evidence...

 

[tbtc]

Something will have to be done, or else I can see a lot of FC passengers shifting to NXEC.

It's already faster to sit on a Pacer to Donny and change to a NXEC service (is Sheffield the only city in the UK with a faster and more frequent service to the capital by doing this?) - and now if you have to stand on a short Meridian, I think I'd rather do the "via Donny" option.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yeah, they are a good company, just their timetabling is shocking in some places. And at least they are trying to send the message out to use another service, most TOCs would do nothing

That's a fair point.

However, the running of five car DMUs to Sheffield to replace HSTs (and the withdrawl of the one "fast" service a day) is a backwards move.

 

[Mintona]

IIRC, it was a suggestion by EMT which the DfT agreed to.



I am pro-customer, rather than pro-TOC and if you don't like that, tough! I despise the "customer is always wrong" attitude which a sizeable minority of rail companies and staff appear to have. As for GC, I don't blindly support them in everything that they do; I have pointed out areas where they could do better.

EMT are a joke in my opinion. If you think EMT have done things better than MML, then lets see the evidence...

The customer isn't always wrong. However, they quite often are as well.

Don't get me wrong, I preferred MML to EMT. But that doesn't make EMT a joke.

 

[John_158]

Now this morning i saw what looked like a four car working on the 09.52 From Liverpool L/St to Norwich and i know that this will work the last one in to Liverpool arriving at 21.31 but the issues is will it work back formed of four coaches which are an OTCT 158 and an TPE 158 or will it be split and the OTCT 158 work the 15.57 From Norwich?

This is what i find ironic about EMT - they don't seem to have the four car workings on the same diagrams all the time and insist on using the worst 158s they can find for Liverpool-Norwich.

Also they don't seem to look after the units very well at all, as i noticed 158783's carpet was already becoming soiled and seats starting to become dirty. This just shows what an incompetent company it is - they do one thing good then one thing bad.

Good was extra trains on the Week End of Lincoln Xmas Market

Bad no extra carriges regular on Liverpool-Norwich on Saturdays especially when football is on ie Liverpool playing at Home like for this week end it the Derby and there will be no extra carriages.

 

[Pumbaa]

Now this morning i saw what looked like a forur car working on the 09.52 From Liverpool L/St to Norwich and i know that this will work the last one in to Liverpool arriving at 21.31 but the issues is will it work back formed of four coaches which are an OTCT 158 and an TPE 158 or will it be split and the OTCT 158 work the 15.57 From Norwich ?

Forgot that was an issue with the master cutler.

This is what i find irronic about EMT they don't seem to have the four car workings on the same diagrams all the time and insit on using the worst 158s they can find for Liverpool-Norwich.

Like we've said before - the only ones! SWT don't want theirs back with quadmillions of miles racked up on them.

Also they don't seem to look affter the units very well at all as i noticed 158783's carpet was allready becoming soiled and seats starting to become dirty that jsut shows what an incompitent company it is they do one thing good then one thing bad.

Silly me - I forgot incompetence was measured by their ability to maintain their units. We have already agreed that Nottingham has some problems. After all, its not their fault customers choose to wear shoes when walking on the carpet in their trains.

Good was extra trains on the Week End of Lincoln Xmas Market

Bad no extra carriges regular on Liverpool-Norwich on Saturdays especially when foot ball is on ie Liverpool playing at Home like for this week end it the Derby and there will be no xtra carriges.

Maybe because they're all in depot being maintained so that ejits like you have less reason to moan the next week? Having looked at the diagrams recently, EMT can only afford to have 2 158s out of service at any time during the week, 5 or 6 with all services single units. They've got a hard task, but there's improvements. Would you please change your argument for some variation? It's boring reading your same badly typed messages that construe everything into "EMT are bad and it's all their fault". Even a balanced ill-typed argument would be preferable.


Re Master Cutler: Like Mintona said, bold move that obviously hasn't worked. I'd hope it gets changed back. They seem to do a pretty good job listening to customers, and management don't get too annoyed with the level of flack. I'm sure they'll sort their act out - Shoveller seems to be a pretty competent man.

 

[Max]

To be fair, there is a key difference between EMT Connect and Mainline. The problems at Connect are, on the whole, the fault of the Dft, resulting from the split of Central Trains stock, and the removal of the ex-TPE 158 centre cars. The problems on the Mainline side really come down to woeful decisions by EMT themselves.

Regarding football matches, I can't see why cross-pennine flows would increase particularly in the event of the Liverpool derby. However, when Sheffield play a team west of the Pennines (eg. Stockport) the consequences can be terrible. I personally experienced this a few years back when Central put a 2 car 158 on the peak Saturday evening service from Liverpool to Norwich. The train was already completely wedged leaving Piccadilly, and the police had to hold back huge crowds of angry football fans at Stockport who were desperate to board - was pretty scary stuff! This would have been in about 2001 or 2002, clearly demonstrating that these problems have been around for years!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Re Master Cutler: Like Mintona said, bold move that obviously hasn't worked.

How was it 'bold'? Surely completely incompetent is more the word you're looking for? They cut capacity on what was already a busy service (particularly in first class) AND added more stops! Meanwhile, from what I can see, there were no enhancements to other Sheffield services to make up for this huge loss of seats. Oh, apart from the fact that the high capacity HSTs now run via the painfully slow Nottingham route. Clever thinking again :roll:.

 

[Craig]

They cut capacity on what was already a busy service (particularly in first class) AND added more stops!

I've just sent an email to NXEC suggesting that they hire in a Voyager to use on the 0550 EDB - KGX and stop at all shacks to Newcastle...

 

[Jordy]

They've shaved around 12 minutes from the journey time to Sheffield, however, seeing as they only call at Leicester, Derby and Chesterfield i'd imagine at least 10 minutes could've been removed with HSTs, is it really worth using Meridians for a couple of extra minutes?

 

[paul1609]

It's already faster to sit on a Pacer to Donny and change to a NXEC service (is Sheffield the only city in the UK with a faster and more frequent service to the capital by doing this?) - and now if you have to stand on a short Meridian, I think I'd rather do the "via Donny" option.
.

Using Nationalrail database suggests thats not true.
Off peak there is a hourly service to St Pancras at xx 27 taking 2 hr 07.
Via Doncaster theres one peak service which takes 2 hr 12 (and that is a TPE service to Cleethorpes with first class so unlikely to be a Pacer) with a tight 8 min connection at Doncaster into a non stop NXEC.
Most via Doncaster timings off peak are in the region 2hr 25 to 2hr 30.
Theres one connection into Euston timed at 2hr 24 with a 8 minute connection at Tamworth.

 

[richa2002]

They've shaved around 12 minutes from the journey time to Sheffield, however, seeing as they only call at Leicester, Derby and Chesterfield i'd imagine at least 10 minutes could've been removed with HSTs, is it really worth using Meridians for a couple of extra minutes?

No.