End of semaphores

[Zoe]

Does Banbury still have semaphores?

Yes it does although most of the signals on the main lines are colour light. It's also still Absolute Block between the two Banbury boxes unless this has recently changed.

 

[HSTEd]

ERTMS-Regional will kill the last semaphore installations, but that is not for a while yet, assuming it ever actually works properly (although tests in Sweden seem encouraging).

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Does Banbury still have semaphores?

Yes. Main aspect and shunting signals (and a lot of shunting takes place at Banbury). You can leave the station in the up direction from any of the four platforms, and three of them have lower quadrant semaphore signals with only the up main being colour light. The semaphore signals in the up direction on platforms 1 & 2 are brand new too, they have been there a couple of years at most. Platform 1 has a semaphore controlling movements in the down direction too, plus there are several more in the goods loops in each direction including some fixed distant signals. I think I am right in saying they all have a decorative finial on top too. Possibly the ones behind Banbury North box controlling access to the down goods and down main dont, but all the ones on the platforms do.
There is also the relatively rare beast of an intermediate block signal between Banbury and Kings Sutton, controlled by Banbury South box though that is a colour light signal.

 

[Clip]

Good to hear. Been a while since I went through Banbury..

 

[Zoe]

There is also the relatively rare beast of an intermediate block signal between Banbury and Kings Sutton, controlled by Banbury South box though that is a colour light signal.

I'm not sure I'd call that an IB signal. It's just the first signal on the panel. There's no Intermediate Block section here as it's TCB.

 

[WL113]

There are still semaphore signals at Kidderminster until August this year. The semaphores on the Cannock Line go in August 2013 when Brereton Sidings, Hednesford No1 and Bloxwich Signalboxes close, together with Walsall PSB and Bescot Down Tower.

 

[fairysdad]

Is Yeovil Pen Mill still Semaphored? I know they were a few years back, and I remembered with amusement that a book published in 1994 (over 10 years previously) referred to them as 'soon to be replaced'...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'm not sure I'd call that an IB signal. It's just the first signal on the panel. There's no Intermediate Block section here as it's TCB.

It's the last signal on the panel heading away from Banbury, surely? I've always been told it is an IB section as it is controlled by an absolute block signal box in the rear. Track circuits are in place, but they would have to be or the system wouldnt work.

 

[NSEFAN]

Is Yeovil Pen Mill still Semaphored? I know they were a few years back, and I remembered with amusement that a book published in 1994 (over 10 years previously) referred to them as 'soon to be replaced'...

As far as I know, Pen Mill still has semaphores, although interestingly the GWR lower quadrant ones were replaced with "standard" upper quadrant signals for some reason. [Picture here]

 

[Zoe]

It's the last signal on the panel heading away from Banbury, surely? I've always been told it is an IB section as it is controlled by an absolute block signal box in the rear. Track circuits are in place, but they would have to be or the system wouldnt work.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about BS104 which is the first signal on the panel and also the junction signal at Aynho. Having read your post again I see you are talking about a signal between Banbury and King's Sutton. This signal is BS11 and is the last signal on the lever frame before it goes onto the panel. There's no IB section though as it's TCB.

 

[driver9000]

It's the last signal on the panel heading away from Banbury, surely? I've always been told it is an IB section as it is controlled by an absolute block signal box in the rear. Track circuits are in place, but they would have to be or the system wouldnt work.

Surely it would have an IB plate to identify it as an IB signal? The IB section signals I work under all have IB plates, although I work in a different area.

 

[TGVDUDE]

VoG ones go as part of the Cardiff re-sig.

Will this include Tondu?

 

[The Planner]

No, that will go separately.

 

[matchmaker]

You could just quote the nearest milepost. It is what they are there for.

I can understand why people get misty eyed for semaphore signals, nostalgia is a powerful emotion but they are woefully out of date. Metal arms on posts held together by bits of wire have as much place on a 21st century railway as the absolute block signalling system does. (ie, none)

Semaphores and AB do their job perfectly well in many places. If it ain't broke, etc.

 

[RichmondCommu]

There are plenty of semaphores left on the Hope Valley and S&C lines.

 

[Donny Dave]

There's not that many semaphores left on the Hope Valley. Grindleford, Hope sidings and Chinley Jn. The rest is all 2 aspect colour signals, apart from Cowburn tunnel - Chinley which is 3 aspect.

 

[LE Greys]

Semaphores didn't belong in the second half of the 20th century, let along the first half of the 21st.

Agreed in principle, but they're still pretty.

 

[Tomnick]

There's not that many semaphores left on the Hope Valley. Grindleford, Hope sidings and Chinley Jn. The rest is all 2 aspect colour signals, apart from Cowburn tunnel - Chinley which is 3 aspect.

Some cracking little boxes though. Mechanical boxes at Totley Tunnel East, Grindleford, Earles Sdgs, Edale and New Mills Jn (just Chinley with a panel), with Absolute Block between Totley Tunnel East and Chinley. Mostly semaphore, apart from Totley Tunnel East (fringing to Sheffield's MAS), Chinley (with its panel), Earles Sidings (which has a single colour-light Down Home??) and (as expected) the distant signals and the numerous IBs.

 

[The Planner]

Screws that line capacity wise.

 

[Tomnick]

It must be a fairly decent headway though - including the IB sections, there's nothing much longer than about four miles. Not sure how much TCB would improve on that - you'd certainly need stop signals midway through Totley Tunnel to shorten the sections?

 

[caliwag]

Semaphores in the majority from Stirling Middle to Aviemore, apart from Perth, distant signals, and IB's.

Yeah, Perth was resignalled in the early 60s. There were 5 in the station environs alone and at least a dozen controlling from the North to South yards. I suupose it was a result of the construction of the ill-fated North hump yard that hastened the resignalling.

Does anyone know when Truro is likely to lose its semaphores?

 

[Oracle]

Are there any on the Arun Valley line still?

 

[NSEFAN]

Does anyone know when Truro is likely to lose its semaphores?

From the signal box closure plan (on this forum), the Liskeard - Penzance and branches are due to be done between 2019 and 2024, so you've got a little while yet.

 

[caliwag]

Excellent, thanks for the info. Indeed plenty of time!

 

[OliverS]

Are there any on the Arun Valley line still?

There were last year at Amberley as I was pointing them out to my daughter.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Helsby Junction is protected by only semaphore signals, fully mechanical. The signal box is located in the station, set on the island platform so for any fans of old technology then it could be a place to visit. I still hear a bell tinging away in the signal box so I assume that some telegraph technology is still in use too. Perhaps one of our NR colleagues could enlighten me?

 

[Tomnick]

Helsby Junction is protected by only semaphore signals, fully mechanical. The signal box is located in the station, set on the island platform so for any fans of old technology then it could be a place to visit. I still hear a bell tinging away in the signal box so I assume that some telegraph technology is still in use too. Perhaps one of our NR colleagues could enlighten me?

Yes, a lot of mechanical equipment still at Helsby by the looks of things. Just a few sets of motor points, some colour-light stop signals out towards Ellesmere Port and colour-light distants in all directions. Works Absolute Block in all three directions - those will be the bells that you can hear.

 

[AlexS]

Semaphores and AB do their job perfectly well in many places. If it ain't broke, etc.

I am most definately a signalling enthusiast (I sign 3 preserved mechanical boxes with a fine array of semaphore signals) but I can definately also sympathise with the drivers who have to drive under these signals in anything but perfect visibility - I've spent plenty of time in the cab and they are not the easiest to spot. They've had their day, really, although they are nice to look at!

I can also understand Network Rail's perspective that they are expensive to operate and maintain (many more signallers, lots more complicated localised equipment).

 

[The Planner]

It must be a fairly decent headway though - including the IB sections, there's nothing much longer than about four miles. Not sure how much TCB would improve on that - you'd certainly need stop signals midway through Totley Tunnel to shorten the sections?

Totley Tunnel East to Grindleford, Grindleford to Bamford, Bamford to Earles Siding, Earles Siding to Edale, Edale to Chinley East is all treated as AB, so your headways are only as good as the running times for the traction plus the 2 minutes for signallers duties.

 

[Tomnick]

Would TCB improve that much though? I don't know whether signals to break the otherwise long section through Totley Tunnel would be an option - if not, there's not much advantage over AB (other than removing the two minute faff factor).