Enforcement of the new rules on social distancing, unnecessary journeys etc.

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
737
The guidance given by Boris in March was specifically that children should not be left with elderly grandparents who are in the vulnerable category even without having symptoms. The stated exception was children moving between separated parents.


Cummings has symptoms, and took a huge risk in that his kids are likely to have spread his symptoms on by then.

If Cummings was well enough to (presumably) drive from London to Durham and back, he was well enough to look after his kids. Lots of people have no choice but to look after their kids when ill.
He will argue he had no other option for childcare reasons and say his parents property was the most effective place for his family to isolate. If he and his wife became too sick to look after their child then the grandparents could step in, although not ideal it was his only solution and the best option for the child’s welfare.

No fan of Cummins but I think the fact this story hasn’t surfaced for 6 weeks shows how weak it is.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

leightonbd

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2013
Messages
290
Location
Edinburgh (South Sub)
It agree it is a long way to travel but it seems the childcare angle and the fact he didn’t interact with his parents will cover him. This was early on in the lockdown. A lot of people were dealing with business and deciding where they were going to stay during the lockdown. Some people moved in with relatives for childcare reasons.
On which basis, a one-time drive to a holiday property, followed by a period of isolation, is ok? (Rhetorical question).

He will get away with it, because too much of the media is beholden to No. 10, but the real impact will be to accelerate people’s growing attitude of ‘pick and choose’ to the lockdown rules.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
737
On which basis, a one-time drive to a holiday property, followed by a period of isolation, is ok? (Rhetorical question).

He will get away with it, because too much of the media is beholden to No. 10, but the real impact will be to accelerate people’s growing attitude of ‘pick and choose’ to the lockdown rules.
No, because for a one off trip to a random location you wouldn’t be able to deploy the child protection argument.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
He will argue he had no other option for childcare reasons and say his parents property was the most effective place for his family to isolate. If he and his wife became too sick to look after their child then the grandparents could step in, although not ideal it was his only solution and the best option for the child’s welfare.
Not if the grandparents became seriously unwell and were in an unfit state to look after the child. Or whoever they could have passed the virus onto when out at the supermarket.

Reckless, irresponsible and indefensible.
 

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
1,431
Whilst I don't approve of his actions, what role do those calling for his resignation think Cummings should resign from? He's not an MP so surely he's not accountable to the public!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
51,275
Location
Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
There was no enforcement at Portobello Beach near Edinburgh on Wednesday - a rare warm day up here

They separated a few people but didn't issue any fines.

I suspect the simple truth is there were so many people flouting the rules that enforcement was impossible.

This will become more prevalent as the weather improves.
FWIW in England the Police have said they will not enforce separation, only group sizes. I don't know if Scotland is the same?
 

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
737
Not if the grandparents became seriously unwell and were in an unfit state to look after the child. Or whoever they could have passed the virus onto when out at the supermarket.

Reckless, irresponsible and indefensible.
So if both parents are ill who should look after the child? Social services? Pragmatically the child would be looked after by the grandparents in an environment they’re familiar with.

No particular fan of Cummins, not saying his actions aren’t questionable. With the evidence available it wouldn’t require Rumpole of the Bailey to defend him though...
 

oldman

Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
634
Whilst I don't approve of his actions, what role do those calling for his resignation think Cummings should resign from? He's not an MP so surely he's not accountable to the public!
He is a public servant - we pay his wages.

Seem to be two versions - hard to know who to believe. From the BBC:

A [Durham Police] spokesman said that owners of the address confirmed the individual "was present and self-isolating in part of the house", and officers "explained to the family the guidelines around self-isolation and reiterated the appropriate advice around essential travel".

Downing Street said that "at no stage" was Mr Cummings or his family spoken to by police about the matter.
 

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
Whilst I don't approve of his actions, what role do those calling for his resignation think Cummings should resign from? He's not an MP so surely he's not accountable to the public!
He should resign from his employer, who he has arguably brought into disrepute.

So if both parents are ill who should look after the child?
The parents should, like everybody else has had to do.
 

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
737
The parents should, like everybody else has had to do.
No they don’t, and what if both parents needed hospital treatment? Also a house with two very sick parents isn’t a safe environment for the child is it?

I think you need to take the fact it’s Cummins out of this and apply the same criteria to everyone. Someone how works away from his family support network returning home because both parents are sick and they could require child care.

Taking the child is his trump card. Without the child defending him would be much harder. As I say, no fan of Cummins but with the evidence that’s being presented he has a defence.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
No they don’t, and what if both parents needed hospital treatment?
But at that time they didn't, so it's irrelevant.


Also a house with two very sick parents isn’t a safe environment for the child is it?
No, it's not. But it's what the rules say.

None of this situation is ideal or safe for lots of people.
 

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
He doesn't 'work away' - he lives in London.
If he and his wife did end up hospitalised, I find it hard to believe they couldn't find *somebody* a bit closer than Durham to give emergency childcare arrangements, or got his parents to come collect them at that point.
 

shodkini

Member
Joined
6 Mar 2011
Messages
7
One fact which has not been made public [quite reasonably] is the age of the grandparents - if only in their 50s they would be an acceptable parental substitute, if in their 70s not so wise......
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
7,898
Location
Redcar
One fact which has not been made public [quite reasonably] is the age of the grandparents - if only in their 50s they would be an acceptable parental substitute, if in their 70s not so wise......
Considering Cummings is 48 and his wife 45, i'd rather hope that either of their parents weren't in their 50's.
 

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
One fact which has not been made public [quite reasonably] is the age of the grandparents - if only in their 50s they would be an acceptable parental substitute, if in their 70s not so wise......
Cummings is 48 (and a half). So a chance his parents are (just) under 70 (if they were 22 or younger when they had him)

Still however contradicts the direct instruction that children shuld not be left with grandparents.
 

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
737
Meanwhile the Cummins situation has proved to be a handy distraction from the total mess that represents the new quarantine regulations...
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
1,278
There was the recent case of the head of BTP in Scotland travelling from Glasgow to Holmfirth. That seems to have died a death.
 

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
1,431
Meanwhile the Cummins situation has proved to be a handy distraction from the total mess that represents the new quarantine regulations...
I'm not sure the quarantine issue will be an issue for the vast majority of us but you do have to wonder why the Cummings story has only just leaked out when it happened weeks ago.

My somewhat tenuous theory is that the government knows the lockdown's worked too well and now many people are scared to go out. So, now it's known that at least one member of the government is blatantly ignoring the rules lots more people might think "bugger it, I'm going to ignore the lockdown and visit my family too". Once they get out there they'll realise that the post-virus world isn't as scary a place as the media would have you believe so will feel less apprehensive about coming out of lockdown and returning to normal life.
 

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
I'm not sure the quarantine issue will be an issue for the vast majority of us but you do have to wonder why the Cummings story has only just leaked out when it happened weeks ago.

My somewhat tenuous theory is that the government knows the lockdown's worked too well and now many people are scared to go out. So, now it's known that at least one member of the government is blatantly ignoring the rules lots more people might think "bugger it, I'm going to ignore the lockdown and visit my family too". Once they get out there they'll realise that the post-virus world isn't as scary a place as the media would have you believe so will feel less apprehensive about coming out of lockdown and returning to normal life.
**Cynical hat on** then when the rate of infections go up the Government can blame "all the people now ignoring lockdown".
 

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
1,498
Location
Overton, Hampshire
I dislike Cummings, but I can understand why he went to Durham in the circumstances and most of the anti-Cummings stuff is just emotional. People feel sure he could have found someone else to look after his child without actually knowing a thing about the situation. People go on about how he would have been unfit to drive when actually many people with the symptoms will be perfectly fit to do that. There's masses of exaggeration starting with the neighbour who's reported to have "got the shock of his life" when he saw Cummings in the next garden - he must have had a remarkably tranquil life up to that point. And it all happened nearly two months ago. It has very little bearing on whether the present restrictions are appropriate or should be relaxed or when. The main point is that as a prominent public figure and very close adviser to the government - though not on medical issues - he had an extra responsibility to follow the rules, and unfortunately he didn't. If he was spoken to by the police then he was treated in much the same way as many others who breached the rules. Of course other politicians and anyone else with an axe to grind will try to squeeze as much out of all this as they possibly can, but it will probably be just another storm in a teacup.
 

Ianno87

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
6,943
I don't think so. Cumming's actions amount to a serious and prominent undermining of the 'Stay at Home' / 'Stay alert' message.

People are going to start to break lockdown over this.

People are going to die because of this when they needn't have done.

The Government, in it's almost deafening process of defending him today (they doth protest too much, in my view) has tarnished the little credibility it still has.
 

Djgr

Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
597
I dislike Cummings, but I can understand why he went to Durham in the circumstances and most of the anti-Cummings stuff is just emotional. People feel sure he could have found someone else to look after his child without actually knowing a thing about the situation. People go on about how he would have been unfit to drive when actually many people with the symptoms will be perfectly fit to do that. There's masses of exaggeration starting with the neighbour who's reported to have "got the shock of his life" when he saw Cummings in the next garden - he must have had a remarkably tranquil life up to that point. And it all happened nearly two months ago. It has very little bearing on whether the present restrictions are appropriate or should be relaxed or when. The main point is that as a prominent public figure and very close adviser to the government - though not on medical issues - he had an extra responsibility to follow the rules, and unfortunately he didn't. If he was spoken to by the police then he was treated in much the same way as many others who breached the rules. Of course other politicians and anyone else with an axe to grind will try to squeeze as much out of all this as they possibly can, but it will probably be just another storm in a teacup.
And what about his second sightseeing trip to Durham?
 

Puffing Devil

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2013
Messages
2,294
he had an extra responsibility to follow the rules, and unfortunately he didn't.
And that's the heart of the issue. With news of his second trip, he should be packing his bags this time tomorrow.

Then again, there seems to be no honour left in government in this country and there appears to be no shame in lying and spinning.
 

NorthOxonian

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
199
Location
Oxford/Newcastle
That will do for him. No doubt there's more being held back as well.
I read that not only did he spend time going around Durham but also drove to Barnard Castle and had a look round there too. It's disgusting.

I'm about as opposed to the lockdown as anybody, and my politics tend to lean Conservative, so there's absolutely no partisan bias here. I think his behaviour was dire and he needs to face consequences - as part of the team around the government, he has a responsibility to set an example to the nation. The ministers who are lining up to defend him aren't much better.
 

Top