Engineering train derailment at Penrith

[ECML180]

It is good that some of you have gladly aired your concerns about the driver but it does make my blood boil when many of you are only concerned on the loco numbers, if there are diversions so you can get haulage and also possibly getting photos of trains on diversion. It now seems clearer why some rail staff do not like some spotters. I hope the drivers are OK and I don't give a monkeys about anything else

Whether it's right or wrong to care or not about the driver, I'm sure it's not limited to enthusiasts! I expect there's members of operations departments or planning staff at rail companies more bothered about the disruption rather than the driver. However like enthusiasts I'm sure they're not all like that and most would wish the driver well!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Don't see the big deal, reported that it was none life threatening and 'just' a broken leg (just as in it is minor compared to death!) Express a wish that he gets well soon, then what is wrong with wanting to know other details?

It is human nature.That is why we have lots of shows called Air Crash Investigation.

 

[D1009]

I only posted the numbers of the locos involved as I wasn't sure of the headcodes, some people can find out the headcode by using the loco numbers. I personally couldn't give a crap about the numbers or the headcode, to me it was just two freight trains collided.

A fellow driver posted:



He's since removed the LOL part...

I'd like to think that there's room in this forum for anyone who takes any kind of interest in the railway, and just because someone posts loco numbers, it doesn't follow that they are spotters interested in nothing else.

 

[Squaddie]

Post number three initially described the incident as a LOL moment. It beggars belief how anyone can think like that, especially given that the comment was made by a fellow driver.

I don't think you're being entirely fair. The "LOL" was probably intended to express surprise at the fact that you had so much information about an incident that was not yet fully in the public domain - at least, that's how I interpreted the original comment. I don't think the writer was suggesting that the crash was an amusing incident.

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps the OP could change the somewhat sensationalist headline to the thread

And I assume the initial sceptical response was due to the often encountered phenomenon of enthusiast gets wrong end of wrong stick and discusses something with less than perfect information with the result that actual story becomes somewhat less serious

 

[DB Driver029]

Just reading through the various comments about this incident and came upon this one posted by Modernrailways.........

Farcebook says it was at 45mph, but my DB friend told me it was around 15mph.

As a Driver THIS is exactly the type of comments that really make Drivers Blood boil. Yet another comment from an Arm Chair expert! No doubt other Drivers in this Forum would like to know where exactly your friend at DB Schenker has got his information? The only people at this stage who would have this level of information would be Network Rail, DB Schenker and a small number of other people. Your friend needs to be very carefull making stupid statements of this nature and you put yourself in a liable position by posting such unfounded comments.

Just to add that I have no problem with anyone asking for the Loco numbers etc, people are interested and I would not find this offensive.

As the investigation is underway in time the Investigation will build up a complete picture of what took place. On behalf of all other Drivers and Railway Staff on this forum may I request that comments are based on facts and not heresay.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As the investigation is underway in time the Investigation will build up a complete picture of what took place. On behalf of all other Drivers and Railway Staff on this forum may I request that comments are based on facts and not heresay.

From one on the forum who only sees matters from a passenger perspective, I completely back everything that you say above. We should be all as one regarding this matter and only make considered postings upon this particular thread.

 

[Silv1983]

I don't think you're being entirely fair. The "LOL" was probably intended to express surprise at the fact that you had so much information about an incident that was not yet fully in the public domain - at least, that's how I interpreted the original comment. I don't think the writer was suggesting that the crash was an amusing incident.

This is how I interpreted it. It's a little bit "grief junkie" for some to keep labouring the point - perceived correctly or otherwise.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If it ran as an EMU today, it turned round at Penrith and is now near Wigan: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O60482/2014/01/13/advanced.

The 0558 from Manchester Airport was 185148 today.

 

[Donny Dave]

Just reading through the various comments about this incident and came upon this one posted by Modernrailways.........

Farcebook says it was at 45mph, but my DB friend told me it was around 15mph.

As a Driver THIS is exactly the type of comments that really make Drivers Blood boil. Yet another comment from an Arm Chair expert! No doubt other Drivers in this Forum would like to know where exactly your friend at DB Schenker has got his information? The only people at this stage who would have this level of information would be Network Rail, DB Schenker and a small number of other people. Your friend needs to be very carefull making stupid statements of this nature and you put yourself in a liable position by posting such unfounded comments.

Just to add that I have no problem with anyone asking for the Loco numbers etc, people are interested and I would not find this offensive.

As the investigation is underway in time the Investigation will build up a complete picture of what took place. On behalf of all other Drivers and Railway Staff on this forum may I request that comments are based on facts and not heresay.

Just to reinforce this point. Railway companies do monitor this (and other) forums. I know of several railway staff who have been heavily disciplined for posting what they're bosses consider to be sensitive, or restricted information, or spreading unfounded gossip, including 1 person who was dismissed ....

Another aspect is possible legal action, something I have been caught up in before. Fortunately nothing happened in the end, but it did cause me a few worries, but if you notice, I am very careful about what I post when it comes to matters such as this. Speculation as to the cause is fine. Passing on gossip which could make the accident sound a lot worse that what it is, is not, same again for inside information which could be confidential ....

 

[Whistler40145]

Last night the 19:15 departure from Warrington Bank Quay to Glasgow Central got caped at Warrington, not quite sure why it didn't continue to Preston.

Did this go ECS to Longsight via Eccles?

All passengers eventually boarded a following train at 19:27 to Penrith.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Dolive22]

I've been told by someone that went round this that it was all handled very well by the railway.

Did anything ever emerge about the second driver, if there was one?

 

[KA4C]

Just reading through the various comments about this incident and came upon this one posted by Modernrailways.........



As a Driver THIS is exactly the type of comments that really make Drivers Blood boil. Yet another comment from an Arm Chair expert! No doubt other Drivers in this Forum would like to know where exactly your friend at DB Schenker has got his information? The only people at this stage who would have this level of information would be Network Rail, DB Schenker and a small number of other people. Your friend needs to be very carefull making stupid statements of this nature and you put yourself in a liable position by posting such unfounded comments.

Just to add that I have no problem with anyone asking for the Loco numbers etc, people are interested and I would not find this offensive.

As the investigation is underway in time the Investigation will build up a complete picture of what took place. On behalf of all other Drivers and Railway Staff on this forum may I request that comments are based on facts and not heresay.

Well said

 

[Zoidberg]

The RAIB has announced that it is carrying out a preliminary examination into this collision (at Kitchen Hill, 3 miles north of Penrith station on the West Coast Main Line).

From http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/current_investigations_register/140112_kitchen_hill.cfm

At 13:25 hrs on Sunday 12 January 2014, train 6L42 (comprised of 10 ballast wagons and a locomotive at each end) was travelling in a work site when it collided with the back of a stationary ballast train that was standing at the board marking the end of the work site. Train 6L42 was travelling at around 19 mph at the time of the impact. As a consequence of the collision, the buffers of the first wagon on train 6L42 overrode those on the leading locomotive; and the leading bogie of the wagon and the trailing bogie of the locomotive became derailed.

When the driver of train 6L42 saw that a collision was imminent he applied the emergency brake and jumped from his cab, sustaining serious injuries. The derailment caused damage to the track which required local repairs, and some limited damage to the rolling stock involved.

The RAIB’s preliminary examination will examine the rules applicable to the management of engineering train movements, and the regulation of their speed, in work sites. It will also examine the way in which key information was communicated between the parties involved.

...

I hope that the injured driver's recovery is going well.

 

[GB]

Should be an interesting read. 19mph is no small impact!

Wish the driver well.

 

[455driver]

19mph is no small impact!

Especially inside a worksite!

 

[Legzr1]

Especially inside a worksite!

Perfectly acceptable speed if authorised by the E.S

 

[455driver]

Perfectly acceptable speed if authorised by the E.S

So 19mph inside a possession is an acceptable speed when approaching the limit board and with another train in front of yours is it?

 

[GB]

No, but its a possibility that the E.S was not fully aware or did not properly brief the driver on the location of the other train or the work site marker boards.

 

[455driver]

I always thought that you drove on line of sight in a worksite ensuring you could stop short etc?

I do get the feeling that complacency has played a part in this (no I am not saying from who )!

Anyway, lets wait a year for the report on what should be a quick, easy investigation.

 

[zn1]

well i hope the driver and any other staff are ok, if its a broken leg the front seater then thats a serious injury, its not a cut hand etc....tDB man your so right he gricers and spotters are an annoyance no end when all they worry is the number...at the end of the day theres been an incident on a worksite, there are casualties etc...im wondering why rail staff report all these issues before the official statements are issued...those reporting these incidents without authorisation surely are in breach of contract ?? coucher vouchers for those who start reporting without authority anyone??

 

[Legzr1]

So 19mph inside a possession is an acceptable speed when approaching the limit board and with another train in front of yours is it?

You quoted me in full so I'm presuming you know I didn't say or even infer that.

As you said yourself, probably best to stop the guess work and wait for the official report.

 

[JGriffin]

........

 

[Smudger105e]

I used to be a BD&R (Breakown & Recovery) Supervisor 'down south'. The biggest job to which I was the first Supervisor on site was this one

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._commissioned_by_Trainload_Freight_Petroleum)

On this job in particular, we were specifically briefed on site that we were not to talk to anyone, and if approached by anyone requesting information we were to refer them to the PR people on site.

All Companies have a large amount of information that they consider business sensitive, and they will protect that information that may be of use to their competitors.

Passing this information is known as Industrial Espionage. Wikipedia states that... 'Economic and industrial espionage is most commonly associated with technology-heavy industries, including computer software and hardware, biotechnology, aerospace, telecommunications, transportation and engine technology, automobiles, machine tools, energy, materials and coatings and so on'.

Trust me, these Companies take this extremely seriously, and will dismiss staff guilty of divulging information, and quite likely will also take legal action too.

 

[edwin_m]

RAIB Bulletin now published:

http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/bulletins_2014/bulletin012014.cfm


Seems like a typical case of miscommunication, misunderstanding and several relatively minor breaches of rules coming together to cause an accident.