EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Barn]

Question is, would the Brexit voters be happy if we simply ended up in EFTA/EEA without further say?

Speaking personally: EFTA yes, EEA no.

 

[WelshBluebird]

By the rules of the referendum it is finished business, one side won and the other lost. You can of course agitate for another referendum, but I wouldn't expect one for a fair few years.

He is just quoting what Farage said before the vote.

 

[adrock1976]

Hopefully they'll learn that nobody gives a damn about their opinions anymore, and that crying, making threats and generally being an a-hole is going to get them nowhere in life.
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My vote is my own business, and no I don't have to justify it to anybody.

However, I do believe that at present the Tories are the best party to lead the UK. Labour and Liberals are in a mess, UKIP are nothing without Nigel, The Greens are attracting the hard-left (funny, because they were initially an Ecological movement with no extreme bias) so really it's a no-brainer. I have more 'faith' in May than Cameron and hopefully she will do a good job both with Brexit and as leader of the United Kingdom.

You have heard of European elections?

I believe so.

No-one's stopping you having an opinion now. The same people that disagree with you now will disagree in the future.

True, but I don't get offended when somebody disagrees with me and I don't get personal or try to call somebody a racist/retard/spastic etc. because they won't agree with me.

I've heard the arguments made by Remainers so many times, and in the end it just boils down to abuse. Remainers aren't really interested in what Leavers think, they are just angry that they lost and can't accept that things are changing. No empire lasts forever, and maybe it's time for a change.

[/QUOTE]

My bold.

So using that logic, perhaps it may be time to return Northern Ireland back to the Irish, and Gibraltar to Spain?
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He's never bothered turning up for work and it seems people like him for it. This is your "man of the people", everyone. He gets a ~£6,537 per month salary, and is happy to make full use of the expenses system too, yet has participated in less than half of the parliament's votes.

It does seem ironic considering the money that UKIP uses for its campaigns come from the very same establishment that they are opposed too.

 

[ianhr]

Speaking personally: EFTA yes, EEA no.

Do you think Mother Teresa is likely to be consulting you?

 

[Howardh]

Do you think Mother Teresa is likely to be consulting you?

It's a start seeing as she doesn't have a clue who to turn to. Boris - off script. Gore - missing. Farage - nope, he's infactuated elsewhere. That leaves Grayling and Rees-Mogg.

Yup, she's better off consulting Barn

 

[Barn]

Do you think Mother Teresa is likely to be consulting you?

Probably not, but I have met David Davis. He's shorter in real life.

 

[adrock1976]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned earlier on in this thread or not, but it is a reply I made to somebody mentioning the Scottish Parliament being anti-British (however that is defined) in the Scotrail Franchise - Abelio thread in the UK Railway Discussion section.

To pick up on a couple of points:

The Scottish Parliament is not anti-British hatred at all. It was reconvened back in 1999 when there was a referendum to devolve powers from Westminster to Scotland and Wales. The devolved legislatures of the Scottish Parliament and the Senadd in Wales use a proportional representation system in elections, as do the local councils in Scotland. Although I have never voted for the SNP, I do recognise the bigger picture overall.

Looking at representation in Scotland as a whole, it could be said that there is a democratic deficit, in that there are 56 out of 59 SNP MPs at Westminster, but Westminster is dominated by Conservatives perhaps one of the reasons being the first past the post voting system that is used there. Furthermore, Scotland, alongside with Northern Ireland, voted to remain in the European Union, but England and Wales voted to leave. Overall, the June 2016 referendum was not clear cut, as there was only around 1 million votes that made a very narrow difference.

Also in regards to the EU referendum, as it is a major change to the governance of the UK and the relationship with mainland Europe at the very least, I feel that there should have been a minimum of 75% to vote to leave the EU, so as it would have been more clear cut in that aspect.

Would it have been better to have a 75% minimum in favour of leaving the EU rather than the present shenanigans that are going on?

 

[overthewater]

It should be made clear up until 1999, Power in Scotland were already there. The Scottish office dealt with everything, but who controlled that office was the UK government. All that changed was Scottish people had direct responsibility for who controls it.

When it comes to Brexit and Scotland its a very dirty and unclear vote, I do know people who just voted to say in and still hate the EU, just so it made it more possible for that 2nd Scottish Referendum , plus turn out in Scotland was lower,

 

[Trog]

Looking at representation in Scotland as a whole, it could be said that there is a democratic deficit.

Are you referring to the way that the Conservatives got 8 times as many votes as the SNP but only 6 times as many MP's?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So by using that logic, perhaps it may be time to return Northern Ireland back to the Irish, and Gibraltar to Spain?

I suppose, that by using the same logic, in historical terms, those now residing in the Isle of Man, the Orkney Isles and the Shetland Isles need to be worried.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I suppose, that by using the same logic, in historical terms, those now residing in the Isle of Man, the Orkney Isles and the Shetland Isles need to be worried.

The Isle of Man is a self determined crown dependancy.

However, freedom for the Isle of Purbeck - now that's an idea.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Isle of Man is a self determined crown dependancy.

You appear to have missed the phrase "in historical terms" that appeared in my posting in answer to that of adrock1976, so for your edification, in the year 1266 which was two hundred years after the Norman invasion of Britain, the Isle of Man was ceded by King Magnus VI of Norway as part of the Treaty of Perth.

 

[Trog]

The situation in Shetland seems even more interesting, in that it is a Norwegian/Danish territory merely pawned to the Scots. There is also an Act of Parliament that states that should the Act of Union between England and Scotland be dissolved Shetland can not become part of the Scottish Kingdom, but remains a personal property / dependency of the Monarch. Wee Jimmy Sturgeon's reaction to that could be rather amusing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You appear to have missed the phrase "in historical terms" that appeared in my posting in answer to that of adrock1976, so for your edification, in the year 1266 which was two hundred years after the Norman invasion of Britain, the Isle of Man was ceded by King Magnus VI of Norway as part of the Treaty of Perth.

Fair point; I wasn't going back to the 13th century

Does that mean that Berwick reverts to a timeshare agreement

 

[Howardh]

The situation in Shetland seems even more interesting, in that it is a Norwegian/Danish territory merely pawned to the Scots. There is also an Act of Parliament that states that should the Act of Union between England and Scotland be dissolved Shetland can not become part of the Scottish Kingdom, but remains a personal property / dependency of the Monarch. Wee Jimmy Sturgeon's reaction to that could be rather amusing.

King of Norway?!!

What's coming ut of the USA - no trade or deals unless they come out of it the better - is a very worrying sign. India have put all sorts of visa issues in the way of trade between them and us, Nissan have blackmailed the UK to continue on their terms, so what now if the EU and USA turn round to us and say "trade - but only on their terms"? Meaning FoM presumably regarding the EU.

If I were the government of a smallish but not insignificant island nation I'd be looking to a larger group of countries withing the same region, maybe even continent, in order to club together for strength to take on the likes of the USA, China and so on. No idea if it's ever been tried, several nations dropping trade barriers between them, negotiating with those outside the group from a position of strength, maybe some kind of political union?

Sounds like a plan to me. Anyone up for it?

 

[AM9]

King of Norway?!!

What's coming ut of the USA - no trade or deals unless they come out of it the better - is a very worrying sign. India have put all sorts of visa issues in the way of trade between them and us, Nissan have blackmailed the UK to continue on their terms, so what now if the EU and USA turn round to us and say "trade - but only on their terms"? Meaning FoM presumably regarding the EU.

If I were the government of a smallish but not insignificant island nation I'd be looking to a larger group of countries withing the same region, maybe even continent, in order to club together for strength to take on the likes of the USA, China and so on. No idea if it's ever been tried, several nations dropping trade barriers between them, negotiating with those outside the group from a position of strength, maybe some kind of political union?

Sounds like a plan to me. Anyone up for it?

There will be plenty ready for that in a few months when some of the leavers wake up to the real cost of their ambitions.

 

[Senex]

King of Norway?!!

What's coming ut of the USA - no trade or deals unless they come out of it the better - is a very worrying sign. India have put all sorts of visa issues in the way of trade between them and us, Nissan have blackmailed the UK to continue on their terms, so what now if the EU and USA turn round to us and say "trade - but only on their terms"? Meaning FoM presumably regarding the EU.

If I were the government of a smallish but not insignificant island nation I'd be looking to a larger group of countries withing the same region, maybe even continent, in order to club together for strength to take on the likes of the USA, China and so on. No idea if it's ever been tried, several nations dropping trade barriers between them, negotiating with those outside the group from a position of strength, maybe some kind of political union?

Sounds like a plan to me. Anyone up for it?

Sounds like a brilliant idea -- though not for one of the Big Four, of course.

 

[EM2]

Some key points from the Chancellor's Autumn Statement:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38075649

Borrowing is forecast to be £122bn higher in the period until 2021 than forecast in March's Budget
Debt will rise from 84.2% of GDP last year to 87.3% this year, peaking at 90.2% in 2017-18
Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) forecasts borrowing of £68.2bn this year, then £59bn in 2017-18, £46.5bn in 2018-19, £21.9bn in 2019-20 and £20.7bn in 2020-21
Public spending this year to be 40% of GDP - down from 45% in 2010

As ITV's Robert Peston puts it:

Wow. OBR forecasts £220bn increase in national debt by end of parliament to staggering £1.945 trillion. Huge Brexit impact

 

[dgl]

We need to put brexit on hold now until we at least have the money to be able to take the economic hit and then put the idea back out to referendum again.

A country that goes bankrupt gives no benefit to anyone and ends up being ruled by the people/countries have bailed them out.

If the people of Britain want brexit then fine, just don't bring the country down with you.

 

[NSEFAN]

We need to put brexit on hold now until we at least have the money to be able to take the economic hit and then put the idea back out to referendum again.

A country that goes bankrupt gives no benefit to anyone and ends up being ruled by the people/countries have bailed them out.

If the people of Britain want brexit then fine, just don't bring the country down with you.

That would be some lovely irony. People vote to leave the EU to take back control, only then having to be bailed out (and in effect controlled) by another country because the economy tanked.

And anyway, in a democracy, the people are the country. If the people vote to shoot themselves in the foot then we should only expect to have our wishes granted.

 

[dgl]

That would be some lovely irony. People vote to leave the EU to take back control, only then having to be bailed out (and in effect controlled) by another country because the economy tanked.

And anyway, in a democracy, the people are the country. If the people vote to shoot themselves in the foot then we should only expect to have our wishes granted.

Let's hope then there are enough doctors that can do foot surgery, may even need to employ a few foreign ones

 

[LateThanNever]

We need to put brexit on hold now until we at least have the money to be able to take the economic hit and then put the idea back out to referendum again.

A country that goes bankrupt gives no benefit to anyone and ends up being ruled by the people/countries have bailed them out.

If the people of Britain want brexit then fine, just don't bring the country down with you.

Oh dear! A country with a sovereign currency - such as UK Sterling - can never go bankrupt - it prints its own money! Greece, with which Osborne was dishonest enough to compare us, can, because the European Cantral Bank did not feel inclined to support them.

That has however nothing to do with being part - or not - of the EU!

 

[AM9]

Oh dear! A country with a sovereign currency - such as UK Sterling - can never go bankrupt - it prints its own money! ...

That's correct, just like Zimbabwe!

 

[dgl]

That's correct, just like Zimbabwe!

Yay! We can all become trillionaires. Well I am already! I am right in thinking that my 100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar note is worth a lot of oounds aren't I

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It really is time to be worried about the ensuing post-Brexit scenario when any sort of comparison of Britain to Zimbabwe is being mentioned upon this thread...:roll:

 

[EM2]

Yay! We can all become trillionaires. Well I am already! I am right in thinking that my 100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar note is worth a lot of oounds aren't I

About £40. There's a notes & stamp dealer just off Charing Cross Road that sells them

 

[dgl]

About £40. There's a notes & stamp dealer just off Charing Cross Road that sells them

I've already made about £32 then , win win!

 

[Howardh]

It really is time to be worried about the ensuing post-Brexit scenario when any sort of comparison of Britain to Zimbabwe is being mentioned upon this thread...:roll:

...and that's just the cricket team

Trying to find out how many potatoes I can grow in the garden and can I grow enough to last a year...

 

[miami]

It really is time to be worried about the ensuing post-Brexit scenario when any sort of comparison of Britain to Zimbabwe is being mentioned upon this thread...:roll:

I thought the time to be worried about the post-brexit scenario was when the country was entering into a reasoned factual debate about the likelihood of outcomes before the referendum.

 

[LateThanNever]

That's correct, just like Zimbabwe!

Not a bit like Zimbabwe actually - it stupidly abolished its sovereign currency long ago!