Not everybody is obsessed with sovereignty (many don't even know what it is). There are far more important things in most peoples' lives, like a job, somewhere to live, good health and its provision, adequate food and heating, etc., so much of the preoccupation with the phenominum is from comfortable citizens with an overdeveloped sense of self-entitlement that's been triggered by leave actgivists.
How many times does it have to be said? We could leave without any deal at all, two years after the Article 50 notification, and there is not a damn thing the EU could do about it.
Continuously stating the same thing does not make it true. The deal is caused by numerous things, including May's weak position, which she caused through calling an unnecessary election; however, we could walk away with no deal. OK that would cause a huge increase in inflation in the short term, but surely that's worth it if we regain sovereignty? Well Mogglodytes think so; of course, they're all so well off that they'll hardly notice it.
Does any of us really know what sovereignty really means in today's world where in all sorts of ways no country can be in sole control of its own destiny? Many of those who keep banging on about it in the Brexit context seem to see it simply as a matter of exchanging a supposed Brussels dictatorship for a very real Westminster dictatorship, but isn't that really something of a relic of a nineteenth-century nationalism that doesn't really work in any case in a state made up of several nations?
NATO, Interpol, the WTO, the World Bank, IMF, UNESCO, World Health Organisation, Red Cross, ISO, International Civil Aviation Organisation, etc. etc. etc.
Well it has worked for most rail staff since privatisation. I have a feeling that the times are changing though.
Why don't you think it isn't?
Again, you presume to know my motivations. And again you have got it completely wrong.
how does inflation lessen our debt? the first thing that happens when inflation starts to rise out of control is that interest rates go up... which means the interest on debt goes up meaning more spending on debt... leads to recession... lower tax take to treasury higher spending on benefits...more borrowing... more debt we've been down that road often enough to know where it leads
Nice context switch. Nobody mentioned inflation rising 'out of control' (besides you), but quietly slipping that idea into the discussion allows you to slay the straw bogey man.
eh? quite apart from the fact that I haven't got the slightest idea of what you're trying to accuse me of..... we've had years of interest rates steady at below 1%.... if interest rates were to rise due to disruption of the economy it would probably be a quick pronounced spike {remember the ERM fiasco when interest rates went up by about 10% in about 2 days?} even a rapid spike to 5% would probably tip the economy into recession
I voted remain to keep the peace in n. Ireland. How dare you destroy the GFA after what I and others have gone though growing up and voted to stop.
I voted leave, I would hope for altruistic reasons... but in truth I probably never thought past what I thought would be best for those beyond my own friends and family.... that's where, in general, the limit of a persons altruism lays... and I don't claim to be a superhero
So you are throwing millions of people under a bus because of pure ignorance. You might want to put a little more thought into life in future and try not to destroy other peoples lives. You have no idea how angry a lot of the people are over this. Particularly my generation.
And how, pray tell, do we have an open border with Ireland, Ireland have free movement of goods and people with the EU and the UK not have free movement of goods and people with the EU, all at the same time?
so that means coming from any other EU country to Ireland apart from the UK you have to show your passport? so if we were to have a customs union with limitations on free movement of people {ie control our own borders} why do we need a "backstop" The whole point of wanting to control our borders isn't to try and stop people from coming to visit... it's to control who settles in the UK considering we are such a crowded island with limited resources.
and of course you were a paragon of virtue and had ALL the facts to hand and took notice of ALL those facts did you? funny how STILL after ALL this time Remainers are still trying the "we're paragons of virtue, Brexiteers are ignorant and as thick as pig dirties"..... NOT!
Any EU citizen has the right to travel to Ireland for any reason, and to get in they just wave their passport or ID card. Only extremely dangerous individuals have the right to be prevented. Once in Ireland they are free to cross the open border into the UK unchallenged and unknown.
and that was what I was trying to allude to... with all due respect to @nidave I really don't remember anyone in the leave campaign mentioning these facts... and that the NI border would be hugely problematic.... when people are thinking of immigration they automatically think of Dover/Folkestone and major airports... simply because that is where media focusses on when talking about the subject. Perhaps if the Remain campaign had tried Project Fact rather than Project Fear then perhaps there might have been a different outcome..
The UK is neither particularly crowded (we're #53 out of 253 on Wikipedia's list of contries/territories by population density) nor do we have limited resources (we're #26 out of 183 on the list of per-capita GDP ).
