EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[BananaRepublic]

.... if there's no deal at all - likely - then that means .......my consumer and worker's rights stolen from me in one go.......

Don't get too carried away. Existing consumer and worker's rights will continue in law after we leave, deal or no deal.
The European Communities (Withdrawal ) Act 2018 transfers existing EU legislation applicable to the UK, pre-Brexit, into UK law from the date of leaving.

Not all our UK laws and rights emanate from the EU either.
There are a few areas in which current UK domestic legislation currently give better workplace and consumer protection to UK residents, than current EU laws provide.
On the other hand, in some other EU member states, they have stronger employment rights than both the EU and UK regulations allow for.

The real concern in this particular area, is if the current or any future governments decide to weaken or do away with any of the current laws and regulations. Divergence.
The fear mongers will prophesies a "bonfire of workers rights", but I don't think any future government could ever get away with that.

 

[radamfi]

Don't get too carried away. Existing consumer and worker's rights will continue in law after we leave, deal or no deal.
The European Communities (Withdrawal ) Act 2018 transfers existing EU legislation applicable to the UK, pre-Brexit, into UK law from the date of leaving.

I note you didn't mention FoM and EHIC, which are absolutely critical.

 

[Howardh]

I note you didn't mention FoM and EHIC, which are absolutely critical.

Especially the EHIC which allows me my next two breaks as my insurance only partly covers me due to a suspected heart condition. If I collapse, maybe a blackout, I should be entitled to emergency treatment similar to the NHS. Once that's gone I'm stuffed until diagnosis, and even then insurance could be very expensive or partial.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I note you didn't mention FoM and EHIC, which are absolutely critical.

No I didn't, because I wasn't answering to those points.
The loss of the EHIC, without any replacement reciprocal arrangements is indeed a big negative.
The loss of FoM is a big red herring as far as the majority of the UK's population will be concerned.

 

[najaB]

Don't get too carried away. Existing consumer and worker's rights will continue in law after we leave, deal or no deal.

But for how long? The champions of Brexit have made no bones of the fact that they despise EU "meddling" and will waste no time rewarding their paymasters.

 

[Howardh]

No I didn't, because I wasn't answering to those points.
The loss of the EHIC, without any replacement reciprocal arrangements is indeed a big negative.
The loss of FoM is a big red herring as far as the majority of the UK's population will be concerned.

Have you asked them all?

 

[BananaRepublic]

But for how long? The champions of Brexit have made no bones of the fact that they despise EU "meddling" and will waste no time rewarding their paymasters.

So, if any changes are so onerous, they get booted out of power.
The next lot change it back again.
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, at least there is a greater opportunity to amend or change the law at a more local level, whereas it would be nigh on impossible to do so under a monolithic structure and with qualified majority voting.

I’m sure you’re right that there’ll some pressure to amend or remove some of the carried over legislation. There will need to be resistance where it matters most, but not all of it will be making consumer or employment rights worst off.

 

[EM2]

Except of course that this whole mess started because of the failure of Cameron and the EU to make the sort of meaningful changes that would have avoided any need for a referendum in the first place.

I must have missed the bit where the EU forced Cameron to call a referendum.

 

[433N]

Don't get too carried away. Existing consumer and worker's rights will continue in law after we leave, deal or no deal.
The European Communities (Withdrawal ) Act 2018 transfers existing EU legislation applicable to the UK, pre-Brexit, into UK law from the date of leaving.

Not all our UK laws and rights emanate from the EU either.
There are a few areas in which current UK domestic legislation currently give better workplace and consumer protection to UK residents, than current EU laws provide.
On the other hand, in some other EU member states, they have stronger employment rights than both the EU and UK regulations allow for.

The real concern in this particular area, is if the current or any future governments decide to weaken or do away with any of the current laws and regulations. Divergence.
The fear mongers will prophesies a "bonfire of workers rights", but I don't think any future government could ever get away with that.

It is amazing that people post this kind of thing without a hint of irony.

Do you know how much the Tory party opposed the implementation of the Working Time Directive and how it still wrankles with right wing nutters like Raab ?

Of course those workers rights will be chipped away at by the right wing lot who have been giving the freedom to do what they like, apparently.

"Don't get too carried away " .... Jeez ... are you the publicity officer for this government ?

 

[Bantamzen]

Don't get too carried away. Existing consumer and worker's rights will continue in law after we leave, deal or no deal.
The European Communities (Withdrawal ) Act 2018 transfers existing EU legislation applicable to the UK, pre-Brexit, into UK law from the date of leaving.

Not all our UK laws and rights emanate from the EU either.
There are a few areas in which current UK domestic legislation currently give better workplace and consumer protection to UK residents, than current EU laws provide.
On the other hand, in some other EU member states, they have stronger employment rights than both the EU and UK regulations allow for.

The real concern in this particular area, is if the current or any future governments decide to weaken or do away with any of the current laws and regulations. Divergence.
The fear mongers will prophesies a "bonfire of workers rights", but I don't think any future government could ever get away with that.

I don't necessarily agree, if a no deal scenario goes through and either a BoJoBot led government or Parliamentary alliance forms, given all the issues that may well arise, and given the current administration's blind determination to drive through headline grabbing policies, I would bet a fair bit on them going after a lot of the kind of legislation that has formed from, or been inspired by the EU Working Time Regs.

I can see it now, the Daily Wail proclaiming "Boris ditches EU working time restrictions to let workers earn more", with the qualifier way down the article and way past the concentration span of many DM readers, "By allowing employers to force staff to work longer hours without overtime". Watch this space....

 

[najaB]

o, if any changes are so onerous, they get booted out of power.

It will be death by a thousand cuts. As @Bantamzen says, it will be little changes presented with lots of spin - plus bundle changes to things like the working time directive in with headline grabbers like "Straight bananas legal again" (or was it bent ones that the EU banned?) and few will notice until it's too late.

 

[edwin_m]

So, if any changes are so onerous, they get booted out of power.
The next lot change it back again.

Unfortunately we could end up with a choice between an extreme Boris government committed to dismantling protections (or just do a U-turn after being elected, as this government has done on no deal), and a Corbyn government that many will consider as unpalatable. Under our electoral system the result would be fairly much a throw of the dice. Like the system in the USA, ours encourages a populist to appeal to their base rather than a party that needs to appeal to a wide range of voters or work with other parties to get enough support to be in power.

 

[nidave]

What's undemocratic is to claim that we have to leave with no deal because the government has failed to agree a settlement with the EU, despite everyone proposing that we leave telling us there was no chance of any of the no deal issues becoming reality.

How about we allow someone to cut thier nose off with a blunt knife to remove a spot.

The idea that we should encourage the government to destroy the country and cause food shortages, price rises and a drop in the standard of living is a strange one. Just because its the only way to allow a tiny majority to leave the EU. You don't allow people to hurt themselves just because they "wanted it" why allow a county to do the same.

 

[nidave]

I’m not sure it would go that way. I’d say it’s more likely people would pull together and blame the EU, which would no doubt be the official narrative anyway. British people do generally pull together in a crisis. That’s if the prophecies of doom actually come to fruition - we’re already hearing language like “horrific”, which to me is a trifle emotive.

You mean leavers. I'm not blaming the EU. This is totally the fault of those who voted leave and the uk government. They are fully and totally to blame fof this mess.

 

[Killingworth]

For all the talk of a supposed majority voting to remain if there were a second referendum, has anyone identified a truly credible alternative government to lead Britain positively forward within the EU?

Maybe that's why we face the alternatives of heading over a cliff, or into the sand dunes of a cobbled together last minute deal.

 

[nidave]

Yea

No I didn't, because I wasn't answering to those points.
The loss of the EHIC, without any replacement reciprocal arrangements is indeed a big negative.
The loss of FoM is a big red herring as far as the majority of the UK's population will be concerned.

just because your insular and don't care about fom doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way.

 

[krus_aragon]

For all the talk of a supposed majority voting to remain if there were a second referendum, has anyone identified a truly credible alternative government to lead Britain positively forward within the EU?

Within the current Parliament, or after a general election? Current polling suggests that there are at least four political parties in play throughout England (more in Wales/Soctland), and the route to a single party majority seems implausible at best: after their change of leader the Conservatives are polling highest, at around 30% nationwide, but they were polling around 45% in the run-up to the 2017 election (and didn't get a majority then).

I wouldn't expect to see a "government to lead Britain positively forward within the EU" after a general election without a change of leader in the Labour party.

 

[Struner]

Negotiating on the backstop...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ron-backs-month-of-talks-to-agree-brexit-deal
A charlatan without any manners

 

[edwin_m]

If that chair didn't have a backstop, Boris would fall off it.

 

[nlogax]

If that chair didn't have a backstop, Boris would fall off it.

There are surely technological alternatives to a backstop for that chair..a pile of cushions or maybe some fence posts and barbed wire?

 

[Cowley]

Deleted

 

[Cowley]

A charlatan without any manners

Which one?
Honestly though, those ties he wears look absolutely ridiculous. Are they getting longer every time he goes out?

 

[najaB]

Which one?
Honestly though, those ties he wears look absolutely ridiculous. Are they getting longer every time he goes out?

You know who else is a buffoon known for wearing stupidly long ties?

 

[Struner]

Guard: Do you put your feet on the bench at home as well?
Passenger: How do you mean, I don’t have a train at home.

 

[Cowley]

You know who else is a buffoon known for wearing stupidly long ties?

Are there any Psychoanalysts on the forum?

 

[Struner]

Common sense will do...

 

[Howardh]

On Nov 1st, if we leave at all without a deal, what is the status for UK Eurostar drivers and associated staff on the train - will they be legally entitled to enter France and work the rest of the route, or will they need permits/visas??

 

[najaB]

On Nov 1st, if we leave at all without a deal, what is the status for UK Eurostar drivers and associated staff on the train - will they be legally entitled to enter France and work the rest of the route, or will they need permits/visas??

I imagine that as long as they are based in the country of residence it will be fine. The issue will be any Brits based in France or vice versa.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

You mean leavers. I'm not blaming the EU. This is totally the fault of those who voted leave and the uk government. They are fully and totally to blame fof this mess.

No they're not. They were offered a choice given by the government. It is the government's fault for not preparing for the outcome of their choice, and for calling it anyway on the assumption the vote would go their way.

 

[AM9]

No they're not. They were offered a choice given by the government. It is the government's fault for not preparing for the outcome of their choice, and for calling it anyway on the assumption the vote would go their way.

So how would the government be able to get in such a mess without marginally over half those voting to go for the undefined option?