EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[northwichcat]

Harbonite:
Sounds like he did call them "thick" to me.

Ah OK I missed that bit.

 

[Gutfright]

No, but certain users on here always bang on about how the leave campaign stood up for salt of the earth, thick working class British people of Britain. Also, you should do some research because it was proven that on average, remain voters were more intelligent.

No it hasn't.

 

[EM2]

You're kind of making my point for me. The ordinary person is easily brainwashed, but you're not. The ordinary person is not that intelligent. But you are.

50% of the population is of below average intelligence.

 

[Gutfright]

50% of the population is of below average intelligence.

And that makes them all mindless, drooling, credulous simpletons?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

No, but certain users on here always bang on about how the leave campaign stood up for salt of the earth, thick working class British people of Britain. Also, you should do some research because it was proven that on average, remain voters were more intelligent.

Is it compulsory every Leave voter has to be described as "thick" by Remainers ?

I love the irony here.

If you want to claim (or imply) that the intelligence of people on your own side is being unfairly demeaned, it's probably not a good idea to make basic mathematical mistakes that suggest a lack of ability to think clearly (such as confusing 'average' with 'every') as you do it

(To be clear, I'm not aware of the research that Harbornite claims, so make no comment on whether it's true or not)
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50% of the population is of below average intelligence.

And that makes them all mindless, drooling, credulous simpletons?

No it doesn't.

But twisting the words of what other people have said, into something not remotely like what they actually said (such as twisting 'below average intelligence' into 'mindless, drooling, credulous simpletons'?) is certainly suggestive EITHER of failure to understand basic English OR of deliberate intent to smear your opponents

 

[Gutfright]

No it doesn't.

But twisting the words of what other people have said, into something not remotely like what they actually said (such as twisting 'below average intelligence' into 'mindless, drooling, credulous simpletons'?) is certainly suggestive EITHER of failure to understand basic English OR of deliberate intent to smear your opponents

I'm not trying to smear anyone. I'm making the point that the average person (and probably most below average people) is not a mindless simpleton.

 

[Antman]

I don't think so as I realised the £350m to the NHS a week claim was a lie before the referendum result as £350m is around triple what actually goes to the EU and ignores the fact many UK projects get funding back from the EU. However, it seems a number of Leave voters were outraged the day after the referendum when prominent Leave campaigners finally admitted the £350m figure was misleading.

Also it's ironic Leave were saying about more jobs for British people. Yet leaving the EU is going to result in a few hundred legal experts from abroad being employed using money from British tax payers, due to there not being suitably qualified British legal experts available to do the work.

OMG not the £350m again? How many times have we been over that on here?

Reading between the lines you seem to be saying that we will only be employing people from abroad that we actually need? Well how exactly is that a bad thing?
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You're kind of making my point for me. The ordinary person is easily brainwashed, but you're not. The ordinary person is not that intelligent. But you are.

Oh so anybody who doesn't agree with you two is unintelligent? :roll:

Face facts, you didn't get the outcome that you wanted and David Cameron has confirmed that there will not be another referendum and throwing insults at those who disagree with you isn't going to change that.

 

[TheKnightWho]

This thread needs killing now as all that is keeping it going is members of the Metropolitan Snowflake generation constantly regurgitating the same despair and woe.
Out in the normal world though the 48% are rejoicing, because they are finally a minority and everyone knows how the left absolutely love a minority.

How dare people say things that you don't like?

Do you always believe this rubbish, or are you just trolling?

 

[northwichcat]

OMG not the £350m again? How many times have we been over that on here?

Leave campaigners wanted to make a deal about all this extra money for the NHS before the referendum, yet complain when it's brought up after the referendum.

Reading between the lines you seem to be saying that we will only be employing people from abroad that we actually need? Well how exactly is that a bad thing?

I don't think we need to leave the EU and spend £40-50m employing these people over two years. A need is something we have to have, not something slightly over half of the population want to have.

It's funny that you're also arguing with Gutright who must be in the top two posters of the most pro-Leave comments on here, alongside yourself. It seems the pro-Leave voters can't get on with each other anymore than the pro-Leave politicians!

 

[Gutfright]

Oh so anybody who doesn't agree with you two is unintelligent? :roll:

Face facts, you didn't get the outcome that you wanted and David Cameron has confirmed that there will not be another referendum and throwing insults at those who disagree with you isn't going to change that.

Well...this is awkward!

What I posted is what jcollins thinks, not what I think.

I have been arguing on this thread that we should respect the decision the people made to leave the EU.

 

[Antman]

Leave campaigners wanted to make a deal about all this extra money for the NHS before the referendum, yet complain when it's brought up after the referendum.



I don't think we need to leave the EU and spend £40-50m employing these people over two years. A need is something we have to have, not something slightly over half of the population want to have.

It's funny that you're also arguing with Gutright who must be in the top two posters of the most pro-Leave comments on here, alongside yourself. It seems the pro-Leave voters can't get on with each other anymore than the pro-Leave politicians!

Maybe I've misunderstood Gutfrights point?
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Well...this is awkward!

What I posted is what jcollins thinks, not what I think.

I have been arguing on this thread that we should respect the decision the people made to leave the EU.

Obviously I did misunderstand you

 

[northwichcat]

I have been arguing on this thread that we should respect the decision the people made to leave the EU.

Although when you thought Remain was going to win, you said you'd excuse the working class if they burnt the country to the ground for being screwed over.

The aftermath of this remain victory will be interesting.

By taking the selfish I'm all right Jack decision to stay, the well-off have screwed over low-waged workers. Those living on the breadline are entitled to feel angry about that.

I wouldn't blame them if they choose to burn this country down to the ground.

 

[Harbornite]

This article goes on about the education of voters

www.newstatesman.com/politics/stagg...fferent-demographic-groups-vote-eu-referendum
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Is it compulsory every Leave voter has to be described as "thick" by Remainers ?

No it isn't. Not all brexiters can be described as thick, but I've encountered mkre thick brexiters than remainers, plus the data shpports the view that areas with lower levels of educational attainment voted out.
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Harbonite:
Sounds like he did call them "thick" to me.

Not that hard to understand is it? I'm saying that some brexiters were thick working class, not that all brexiters or working class people are thick.

 

[EM2]

And that makes them all mindless, drooling, credulous simpletons?

I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that.

 

[Harbornite]

I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that.

Don't worry, it's just hyperbole.
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How dare people say things that you don't like?

Do you always believe this rubbish, or are you just trolling?

Seems like he's been dipping into the stock phrases used by those who moan about political correctness. I have heard some crap from young millennials (sometimes referred to as generation snowflake, and rightly so) but there's no evidence in this thread of this. Ops doesn't seem to like democracy when people challenge his point of view, which is ironic.

 

[Gutfright]

Although when you thought Remain was going to win, you said you'd excuse the working class if they burnt the country to the ground for being screwed over.

I could understand there being a mass outpouring of anger among those living on the breadline. Mass immigration suppresses the wages of the lowest-paid. The only things the remain side have to say to people who are struggling to make ends meet is "Gee, that's too bad" or of course the tried-and-trusted "You're talking about immigration? Das raysist". Is it any wonder that many of the country's poorest people feel betrayed by remain voters and their sociopathic indifference to the plight of the low-paid?

 

[EM2]

Is it any wonder that many of the country's poorest people feel betrayed by remain voters and their sociopathic indifference to the plight of the low-paid?

Evidence?

 

[northwichcat]

I could understand there being a mass outpouring of anger among those living on the breadline. Mass immigration suppresses the wages of the lowest-paid. The only things the remain side have to say to people who are struggling to make ends meet is "Gee, that's too bad" or of course the tried-and-trusted "You're talking about immigration? Das raysist". Is it any wonder that many of the country's poorest people feel betrayed by remain voters and their sociopathic indifference to the plight of the low-paid?

Yet voting to leave has negative implications on the economy. Someone doing an unskilled role for an international business may find they lose their job over the next couple of years as the work moves to somewhere like Ireland or Germany. The low paid could find they can no longer afford even a weekend trip to France due to the pound losing value as a result of Brexit.

The Green Party are the political party who were pushing hardest to close the gap between the lowest and highest paid and they supported remaining in the EU, UKIP claim to represent ordinary people but seem to have an interesting definition of ordinary.

 

[Harbornite]

I'm not trying to smear anyone. I'm making the point that the average person (and probably most below average people) is not a mindless simpleton.

You were suggesting that this was being inferred by remain supporters when it wasn't.

 

[Gutfright]

I'm pretty sure that I didn't say that.

I was just trying to find out why some people on this forum believe that they are intelligent and rational enough to make a decision on the EU, but that the average man on the street isn't?

There is a narrative being pushed on this thread that people voted leave because they lack the capacity for critical thinking and were misled by claims they automatically and unquestioningly believed.

 

[Harbornite]

There is a narrative being pushed on this thread that people voted leave because they lack the capacity for critical thinking and were misled by claims they automatically and unquestioningly believed.

There is some truth in that with SOME (not all) brexiters.

 

[EM2]

...were misled by claims they automatically and unquestioningly believed.

Because plenty of people that have voted Leave have said exactly that?
As an example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...0971de-3a42-11e6-af02-1df55f0c77ff_story.html

“I was swayed by the rhetorics, but if I had thought this through, I would have voted to stay in. I would certainly do so now,” said Antony Kerin, 38, who was watching his daughter at a newly refurbished but empty playground.

And also:
http://www.consumerintelligence.com/articles/a-quarter-of-brexit-voters-feel-misled

A quarter of brexit voters feel misled however, the majority stand by their decision to vote leave in the EU Referendum, according to new research from Consumer Intelligence.

In a survey recently of 1,800 people performed by Consumer Intelligence, 36.5% of people who voted Leave in the EU referendum said that they felt politicians who had urged them to vote leave had lied to them.

Remain voters seem to be more confident in their decision than Leave voters overall, with 7.4% of Leave voters saying they regretted their decision, and another 5.8% saying they didn’t know if they would vote the same way again.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I could understand there being a mass outpouring of anger among those living on the breadline. Mass immigration suppresses the wages of the lowest-paid. The only things the remain side have to say to people who are struggling to make ends meet is "Gee, that's too bad" or of course the tried-and-trusted "You're talking about immigration? Das raysist". Is it any wonder that many of the country's poorest people feel betrayed by remain voters and their sociopathic indifference to the plight of the low-paid?

And you don't think the recent events post-Brexit have suppressed real wages? Artificially keeping wages high by stopping immigration makes our exports uneconomic, meaning those jobs become uneconomic.

In other words, you're buying a little time for more permanent hurt, whilst damaging plenty of international businesses in the country at the same time. Trying to help working class people doesn't mean that you will actually help them if you simply render their jobs redundant as business moves abroad.
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I was just trying to find out why some people on this forum believe that they are intelligent and rational enough to make a decision on the EU, but that the average man on the street isn't?

There is a narrative being pushed on this thread that people voted leave because they lack the capacity for critical thinking and were misled by claims they automatically and unquestioningly believed.

Do you feel educated enough to be the Secretary of State for Defence? No? Does that mean you're stupid and uneducated? No.

 

[Gutfright]

Evidence?

Just look at the talking points on the (mostly pro-remain) RailUK forums both before and after the referendum.

The plight of the low-paid seems to be an afterthought at best.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Just look at the talking points on the (mostly pro-remain) RailUK forums both before and after the referendum.

The plight of the low-paid seems to be an afterthought at best.

Disagreeing with you on how to retain good wages does not mean we think it's unimportant.

 

[Gutfright]

survey recently of 1,800 people performed by Consumer Intelligence, 36.5% of people who voted Leave in the EU referendum said that they felt politicians who had urged them to vote leave had lied to them.

How many of those people felt that way before the referendum?

Maybe they realised that politicians were lying to them, so they ignored the campaign rhetoric, concentrated on the facts and that's why they voted to leave?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The plight of the low-paid seems to be an afterthought at best.

I don't see that. Remember, people here tend to talk about things that are (a) controversial, and (b) actually have an open thread on the topic. There is currently no thread about the plight of the low paid - so it's hardly surprising that noone's posting much about that topic. If you wish to start a thread about that, you'll be welcome to. Then you may be better able to judge from how people respond to the thread how much or how little people care about that subject. (FWIW I think the problem of low pay is a very serious issue, but it is of only marginal relevance to this thread because its solution lies mainly in Government policy, not in the EU debate. Having said that, I think it'd be slightly easier to solve the problem of low pay within the EU rather than outside it).

 

[Gutfright]

Do you feel educated enough to be the Secretary of State for Defence? No? Does that mean you're stupid and uneducated? No.

It would have been nice if the people were given a referendum before Blair took us to war with Iraq.

 

[EM2]

How many of those people felt that way before the referendum?

Maybe they realised that politicians were lying to them, so they ignored the campaign rhetoric, concentrated on the facts and that's why they voted to leave?

'...politicians that had urged them to vote leave...' - it's there in the post that you quoted.
You're now suggesting that people said 'This person says we should Leave, but I think is lying, so I'll research it for myself. (.....) Now I have completed my research, I'm going to vote Leave'.
Now if you think someone telling you to do something is lying, and you research what they said, and come to the same conclusion, either you do not believe that person is lying, or you are lying to yourself.

 

[TheKnightWho]

It would have been nice if the people were given a referendum before Blair took us to war with Iraq.

That didn't answer the question. Do you feel qualified?