EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[nlogax]

Part of the trouble is May has made zero effort to “sell” her deal to the populace. Apart from the backstop, does anyone really know anything about her desk and how good or bad it is? That’s a massive failing for a start.

She can't. She doesn't possess the charisma required to sell anything, and for -whatever goddamned reason- she is determined to stick to red lines that neither side would vote for nor would benefit from. The massive question that no-one seems to have asked Theresa May is 'what do you know that the rest of Parliament and the country doesn't?'. From our collective (admittedly not lofty) position she appears to have the square root of bugger all with which to bargain, and no clue where to go next.

Let's not let the shenanigans of last night drown out Corbyn's am-dram demo, bearded child that he's again proven to be. Does the country really deserve this wet sulky weekend of an opposition?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let's not let the shenanigans of last night drown out Corbyn's am-dram demo, bearded child that he's again proven to be. Does the country really deserve this wet sulky weekend of an opposition?

I certainly have less time for him now than I did.

What this situation needed is a "Government of national unity" to deal with the most important and in practice irreversible thing that UK politics has had to deal with for many year. Then feel free to go back to the usual bickering afterwards.

 

[EM2]

I have never done a piece of work that I have believed in as deeply as Theresa believes in her deal.

 

[edwin_m]

So you think that the European Union conspired with May, that no one could have done worse but that anyone else would have done worse? How does that work?

In the cold light of day, perhaps by saying her short extension would need agreement of the deal which has twice been voted down by a huge majority, Tusk was trying to say "no" without actually being seen to do so. But May interpreted that yet another signal to push her deal through. In between that and effectively saying "compromise means you all have to change your mind and agree with my viewpoint" any residual confidence I had in her has totally evaporated.

What I said wasn't "anyone else", it was "any of the likely alternatives" (or words to that effect - it's no longer on the screen so I can't check). I'm talking about the selection of dismal right-wingers who have a chance of getting the Tory leadership when May is forced out, but probably Corbyn as well.

I have never done a piece of work that I have believed in as deeply as Theresa believes in her deal.

Does she even believe in it? I suspect what she believes in above all is keeping the Tory party together at whatever cost to the country.

 

[nidave]

So the vote to take back control from the EU ends up with the EU blackmailing Parliament to vote for something almost nobody wants and has previously been voted down in the biggest government defeat in history. All because May has failed to pay any attention to any opinion other than the swivel-eyed lunatics of the ERG - and Corbyn isn't much better than a mirror image.

And there it is... Blame the eu for the uks mess. I thought they needed us more than we needed them and we need all the cards.
JRM was praising Marconi for wanting to block an extension and farage was making an appeal to the eu to get them to ignore the uks request for an extension yet its all the fault of the eu.
Take some responsibility for this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does she even believe in it? I suspect what she believes in above all is keeping the Tory party together at whatever cost to the country.

That is my impression too - and Corbyn is little better.

 

[DarloRich]

Let's not let the shenanigans of last night drown out Corbyn's am-dram demo, bearded child that he's again proven to be. Does the country really deserve this wet sulky weekend of an opposition?

Corbyn will sit with terrorists and murderers to " further debate" or some-such nonsense. He wont talk to other MP's and he and his army of deluded supporters are more interested in job titles than sorting out a plan to deal with the mess that is Brexit. The man is a joke and unfit for the position he holds.

And don't get me started on May and her will of the people v democracy lunacy last night.

 

[Senex]

I have never done a piece of work that I have believed in as deeply as Theresa believes in her deal.

Me too—but then I'd guess neither of us has ever felt that The Truth has been revealed to us alone to act upon, but rather that you set up a hypothesis, test it, and then modify it if it can't stand up to the tests. I think the tragedy of May is that she is almost a latter-day religious extremist who thinks that the Revelation of the way forward has come to her and her alone and must now be pursued pure and undefiled at all costs. That revelation is twofold: that her "deal" is the perfect deal and therefore not susceptible to modification; and that it is her mission to save the Tory party. Like so many religious extremists in history, she is totally blinkered in pursuit of her beliefs.

Does she even believe in it? I suspect what she believes in above all is keeping the Tory party together at whatever cost to the country.

Yes, I'm sure she does believe in it, both as a deal to solve the Brexit issue and as a way of keeping the Tory party together. What this whole business has shewn up is a major problem with our system: when you get an extremist enthusiast like May in power, and using what are in effect the old royal powers, there are no checks and balances to control her. Parliament itself has shewn itself incapable of acting, and where is the Oliver Cromwell to tell the useless mob they are no longer needed?

 

[SHD]

Me too—but then I'd guess neither of us has ever felt that The Truth has been revealed to us alone to act upon, but rather that you set up a hypothesis, test it, and then modify it if it can't stand up to the tests. I think the tragedy of May is that she is almost a latter-day religious extremist who thinks that the Revelation of the way forward has come to her and her alone and must now be pursued pure and undefiled at all costs. That revelation is twofold: that her "deal" is the perfect deal and therefore not susceptible to modification; and that it is her mission to save the Tory party. Like so many religious extremists in history, she is totally blinkered in pursuit of her beliefs.
Yes, I'm sure she does believe in it, both as a deal to solve the Brexit issue and as a way of keeping the Tory party together. What this whole business has shewn up is a major problem with our system: when you get an extremist enthusiast like May in power, and using what are in effect the old royal powers, there are no checks and balances to control her. Parliament itself has shewn itself incapable of acting, and where is the Oliver Cromwell to tell the useless mob they are no longer needed?

Well I disagree with your characterisation of Theresa May. I do not think that she is acting on messianic grounds.

Like edwin-m, I think that her tragedy (and incidentally the United Kingdom's) is to have based her Brexit strategy on légerdemain, by pulling together almost mutually incompatible red lines in order to serve (or at least pay lip service to) the wishes of the various Tories and of the DUP, and probably expecting that the EU would sway its position.

She most certainly knows exactly how awkward and unsatisfactory the Political declaration is, and she knows exactly why it has been rejected twice, and why the EU will not amend it.

 

[Dave1987]

That is my impression too - and Corbyn is little better.

Corbyn’s reported actions yesterday when he walked out of a meeting because
Chuka Umunna was present has immediately lost Labour my vote why Corbyn is leader. I simply cannot vote for a party who’s leader is that petty.

 

[Dave1987]

May chastising Parliament for holding her Government to account and laying siege to the principles of democracy itself. Corbyn playing silly games because several MPs quit his party. The PM and the leader of the opposition! What a joke this country is right now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Corbyn’s reported actions yesterday when he walked out of a meeting because
Chuka Umunna was present has immediately lost Labour my vote why Corbyn is leader. I simply cannot vote for a party who’s leader is that petty.

It's indeed very petty and he has gone right down in my estimation. This all demonstrates that it's not country first, it's party first.

If he will negotiate with terrorists, but not simply a breakaway faction of his own party, he is not fit for office.

 

[Bletchleyite]

May chastising Parliament for holding her Government to account and laying siege to the principles of democracy itself. Corbyn playing silly games because several MPs quit his party. The PM and the leader of the opposition! What a joke this country is right now.

Quite.

If we weren't all so British, sitting there watching it, giggling, tutting and drinking tea (as we tend to), and if this was in another country that was more minded to that kind of thing, this would be revolution/coup material.

(Note to MI6: my plan is the tea one, not the coup one, so no need to knock on my door )

 

[DarloRich]

Like edwin-m, I think that her tragedy (and incidentally the United Kingdom's) is to have based her Brexit strategy on légerdemain, by pulling together almost mutually incompatible red lines in order to serve (or at least pay lip service to) the wishes of the various Tories and of the DUP, and probably expecting that the EU would sway its position.

She most certainly knows exactly how awkward and unsatisfactory the Political declaration is, and she knows exactly why it has been rejected twice, and why the EU will not amend it.

Agreed.

It's indeed very petty and he has gone right down in my estimation. This all demonstrates that it's not country first, it's party first.

If he will negotiate with terrorists, but not simply a breakaway faction of his own party, he is not fit for office.

Petty in the extreme but typical of the kind of 6th form politics debating society he represents.

He could easily have made a statement afterwards indicating he was unhappy to see Mr Umunna as he is not a party leader and for him to attend such a gathering offers him a credibility and status he does not deserve. However at this time of national crisis i felt it my duty to set aside such small minded issues to work with my parliamentary colleagues to reach a consensus that served the national interest.

He didnt. he stropped off.

 

[Dave1987]

Petty in the extreme but typical of the kind of 6th form politics debating society he represents.

He could easily have made a statement afterwards indicating he was unhappy to see Mr Umunna as he is not a party leader and for him to attend such a gathering offers him a credibility and status he does not deserve. However at this time of national crisis i felt it my duty to set aside such small minded issues to work with my parliamentary colleagues to reach a consensus that served the national interest.

He didnt. he stropped off.

Corbyn has shown his true side now.

May is in the highest public office role in our democracy, yet has shown her disdain for Parliament which is the very symbol of democracy. Just because she couldn't get her way. She hasn't a single shred of humanity in her. More worried about keeping the extreme right wing of her party together than uniting the country. I sincerely hope to centre ground of Parliament rise up against the two extremes on the Government and opposition benches.

 

[edwin_m]

Quite.

If we weren't all so British, sitting there watching it, giggling, tutting and drinking tea (as we tend to), and if this was in another country that was more minded to that kind of thing, this would be revolution/coup material.

(Note to MI6: my plan is the tea one, not the coup one, so no need to knock on my door )

Failing that, the BBC is reporting that a petition for revocation of A50 has crashed the petitions website after collecting 700,000-odd signatures. It now seems to be back and I would urge anyone who feels similarly to add to it.

Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

 

[DarloRich]

apparently so popular is the article 50 revocation petition that it has crashed the website! It was up around 780000 signatures last i looked

 

[jellybaby]

Failing that, the BBC is reporting that a petition for revocation of A50 has crashed the petitions website after collecting 700,000-odd signatures. It now seems to be back and I would urge anyone who feels similarly to add to it.

Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

Mostly being signed by people who live in areas that mostly voted remain - see diagram/map at https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/?241584

Doesn't seem very likely to do influence much. Although I signed it anyway.

 

[d9009alycidon]

Down again!

 

[LM93]

Unless it gets more signatures than the leave vote, its useless

 

[radamfi]

If there isn't an extension to A50, then withdrawing it is the only option as no deal is unacceptable.

 

[Jonny]

Corbyn has shown his true side now.

May is in the highest public office role in our democracy, yet has shown her disdain for Parliament which is the very symbol of democracy. Just because she couldn't get her way. She hasn't a single shred of humanity in her. More worried about keeping the extreme right wing of her party together than uniting the country. I sincerely hope to centre ground of Parliament rise up against the two extremes on the Government and opposition benches.

Careful about your choice of words "extreme right wing"... They're nothing like that. Hard right, maybe, but on the basis that it applies equally to everyone.

 

[Ianno87]

apparently so popular is the article 50 revocation petition that it has crashed the website! It was up around 780000 signatures last i looked

Estimated to be going at a rate of 2,000-2,500 per minute (120,000-180,000 per hour).

 

[DarloRich]

C.850k now - I notice the government haven't responded as yet!

 

[Howardh]

If there isn't an extension to A50, then withdrawing it is the only option as no deal is unacceptable.

At this rate, on B-day and at 5 minutes to 11pm May will revoke Article 50 and resign and blame it on MP's, remainers, the European Elite - (whoever they are), anyone and anything except herself and her stupid red lines.

 

[Esker-pades]

C.850k now - I notice the government haven't responded as yet!

To be fair, this petition has taken off very quickly so that government hasn't had much time to respond.

 

[Howardh]

To be fair, this petition has taken off very quickly so that government hasn't had much time to respond.

Yes they have, Leadsom said something like "when it hits 17.4m we'll take action on it" in parliament. In other words, game on!
*Yes, it's meaningless but we can't just sit here and do nothing - and everyone in the UK who has replied to the petition has a vote in a general election. 16m people don't just suddenly disappear off the electoral register.

 

[Esker-pades]

Yes they have, Leadsom said something like "when it hits 17.4m we'll take action on it" in parliament. In other words, game on!
*Yes, it's meaningless but we can't just sit here and do nothing - and everyone in the UK who has replied to the petition has a vote in a general election. 16m people don't just suddenly disappear off the electoral register.

What a pathetic comment.

EDIT: Leadsom's not @Howardh 's.

 

[MidlandsChap]

C.850k now - I notice the government haven't responded as yet!

Perhaps not directly, but no doubt the PM will be aware of it.
She made a statement a little earlier today from Brussels repeating a couple of times that she intends to deliver brexit as per the 2016 public vote.
Not sure how more clearer she can be that she doesnt intend to revoke.
Its a case of detonating a financial bomb via a no deal, or a political/democratic bomb via revoking the whole gubbins.

 

[Howardh]

What a pathetic comment.

EDIT: Leadsom's not @Howardh 's.

Thanks for the edit!!!!!!!!