Struner
Member
Move to Ireland!
No-one apart from some extreme right wing nutter elements. Even relatively right wing 'ruling' parties in Italy, Hungary, Poland etc have rowed back from many of their anti-EU positions. Its just a Brexiteer wet dream that the whole EUs about to fall apart, part of their echo chamber bullcr@p that they meme to each other constantly.
This sort of thing isn't helpul.Move to Ireland!
I think you misunderstood meThis sort of thing isn't helpul.
People telling others to just move is too simplistic and very often not an option in the short term.
In the old days it had it's complications. Although you were unlikely to be asked for your passport to being the milk in, shops and restaurants that straddled the border had (a) parts of the shops where stuff was sold under one tax regime, and where there were laws regarding opening/closing time you could only have a beer on one side of the room. people straddling the border could decide which country they paid tax to by altering the position of their front door - ie if it were cheaper to be in Belgium then you built your front door on the Belgian side of the line.
Wish we had something similar here after Brexit where your own house could be either inside or outside the EU!
Has she? I thought she was still very anti EU?Marine Le Pen has also realised that leaving the EU isn't going to work.
Nah, it'll be full of Tory MP's and Leave EU members running away from the mess they've created. Don't want to share a country with them again.Move to Ireland!
Has she? I thought she was still very anti EU?
Of course which is the main reason why he (and May before him) will never do such a thing despite it probably being something which could command a majority in the House of Commons, would respect the Referendum result and even be something which I suspect a large number of those who voted remain would be able to live with (I certainly would be happy if we were EEA/Customs Union).
But it would very likely push the ERG group of Tory MPs over the edge and probably tear the party apart. It would also probably cause the Tory membership to loose their collective minds as well. It would also probably push the crazies that Johnson is trying to court into the arms of the Brexit Party fracturing the Tory vote as well as the party itself.
So despite it probably being a very good course of action for the country as a whole (short of revoking A50 and forgetting about the whole thing) it unacceptable as long as the Tories continue to put party before country.
Whether you are a Remain or Depart, the EU were never going to make it easy, a few other sitting in the wings to see how it goes, before jumping ship
I'm actually rather disappointed in parliament for not having used the time they gained back from the Supreme Court's judgement on prorogation to pass something directing Johnson to negotiate a brexit deal which involves us remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union.
Also I think that at the very start, May probably could've sold this to even the ardent Brexiteers - perhaps on the basis that even if a hard brexit were the best outcome, the least risky and disruptive way of getting there would be a series of relatively small changes (an argument that still applies IMO)
Does staying in the single market and customs union not take away the whole point of leaving the EU?
Yes, but without the democratic and veto advantages of being a member. What would happen was that IF (THIS IS VERY UNLIKELY) an 'undesirable' state wanted to join, or if the EU wanted to change cornerstone EU principles, Britain wouldn't even be heard.
Yes, but without the democratic and veto advantages of being a member. What would happen was that IF (THIS IS VERY UNLIKELY) an 'undesirable' state wanted to join, or if the EU wanted to change cornerstone EU principles, Britain wouldn't even be heard.
Exactly no point in staying in both the above and having no say in nothing we would be bound by , either leave both or stay in the EU
There is of course no reason we couldn't stay now and leave later, based on changing evidence.
To be fare the Tories hard core leavers are hard right. I don't think everyone who voted leave is hard right.I'm always amused when those who voted Remain constantly refer to those who voted to Leave the EU as "right wing" thus ignoring the sentiments of prominent Labour Party members like Tony Benn and Peter Shore (and wasn't the current Labour leader an ardent anti -EU supporter up until recently ? )
The sad fact is that Cameron had no plan in place if Leave won and promptly ran away thus ensuring that the Tory Party went into panic and elected May in the vain hope she would be Thatch Mk II and we all know where that has led, had there been Leave people in charge of the negotiations I suspect that things would probably have been handled much better
Pigs ear is what it is
Davis, Raab and Barclay have been the three Secretaries of State for Exiting the European Union, and are all Leavers. Davis was also the chief negotiator before Olly Robbins....had there been Leave people in charge of the negotiations I suspect that things would probably have been handled much better
Pigs ear is what it is
As EU members, we elect a parliament,
...we can veto contentious issues
... and we benefit from EU subsidies.
We have a commissioner as well. That's what they are supposed to do. And also the European Parliament and the Council review proposals by the Commission and propose amendments. If the Council and the Parliament cannot agree upon amendments, a second reading takes place.Which, being unable to promote or modify legislation is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
From Wikipedia:Can we? Most vetoes were knocked on the head with the expansion of qualified majority voting, courtesy of the Lisbon Treaty.
Certain policy fields remain subject to unanimity in whole or in part, such as:
- membership of the Union (opening of accession negotiations, association, serious violations of the Union's values, etc.);
- change the status of an overseas country or territory (OCT) to an outermost region (OMR) or vice versa.[29]
- taxation;
- the finances of the Union (own resources, the multiannual financial framework);
- harmonisation in the field of social security and social protection;
- certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.);
- the flexibility clause (352 TFEU) allowing the Union to act to achieve one of its objectives in the absence of a specific legal basis in the treaties;
- the common foreign and security policy, with the exception of certain clearly defined cases;
- the common security and defence policy, with the exception of the establishment of permanent structured cooperation;
- citizenship (the granting of new rights to European citizens, anti-discrimination measures);
- certain institutional issues (the electoral system and composition of the Parliament, certain appointments, the composition of the Committee of the Regions and the European Economic and Social Committee, the seats of the institutions, the language regime, the revision of the treaties, including the bridging clauses, etc.).
The budget contribution is not made just to get some of it back.What, like getting back around half of the cash we pay in (provided we spend it as directed).
What is the point of leaving the EU? In six months following this topic I've yet to see one that's even vaguely convincing.Does staying in the single market and customs union not take away the whole point of leaving the EU?
Both Tony Benn and Peter Shore have been dead for several years so it's not known what side they might have taken in the current debate. Although there are some leavers in the Labour party, its membership is overwhelmingly pro-remain and the Tory membership is overwhelmingly pro-leave.I'm always amused when those who voted Remain constantly refer to those who voted to Leave the EU as "right wing" thus ignoring the sentiments of prominent Labour Party members like Tony Benn and Peter Shore (and wasn't the current Labour leader an ardent anti -EU supporter up until recently ? )
Most of the time the British Parliament is equally unable to do so, because the governing party has a majority and in normal circumstances can pretty much get its way on everything. The European parliament just vetoed Macron's choice for commissioner, whereas the British parliament has no power to veto the equivalent appointment (cabinet minister).Which, being unable to promote or modify legislation is as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
We still have a veto, for example, over new countries joining. Contrary to the lie told by the Leave campaign that we couldn't stop Turkey joining. Can we? Most vetoes were knocked on the head with the expansion of qualified majority voting, courtesy of the Lisbon Treaty.
I'm always amused when those who voted Remain constantly refer to those who voted to Leave the EU as "right wing" thus ignoring the sentiments of prominent Labour Party members like Tony Benn and Peter Shore (and wasn't the current Labour leader an ardent anti -EU supporter up until recently ? )
The sad fact is that Cameron had no plan in place if Leave won and promptly ran away thus ensuring that the Tory Party went into panic and elected May in the vain hope she would be Thatch Mk II and we all know where that has led, had there been Leave people in charge of the negotiations I suspect that things would probably have been handled much better
Pigs ear is what it is
What is the point of leaving the EU? In six months following this topic I've yet to see one that's even vaguely convincing.
Both Tony Benn and Peter Shore have been dead for several years so it's not known what side they might have taken in the current debate. Although there are some leavers in the Labour party, its membership is overwhelmingly pro-remain and the Tory membership is overwhelmingly pro-leave.
Most of the time the British Parliament is equally unable to do so, because the governing party has a majority and in normal circumstances can pretty much get its way on everything. The European parliament just vetoed Macron's choice for commissioner, whereas the British parliament has no power to veto the equivalent appointment (cabinet minister).
We still have a veto, for example, over new countries joining. Contrary to the lie told by the Leave campaign that we couldn't stop Turkey joining.
We still have a veto, for example, over new countries joining. Contrary to the lie told by the Leave campaign that we couldn't stop Turkey joining.
The budget contribution is not made just to get some of it back.
Ahh yes, but they are not the paymastersI've asked the following question on several different non-political forums (one overwhelmingly frequented by ardent @no-deal' leavers) and as yet, have yet to have one reply:
"What laws and/or rules that we currently have to comply with under EU rules would you change the day after a "'no-deal' Brexit?"
Ahh yes, but they are not the paymasters
You ask the likes of Mogg in private what laws he would want repealed and there is probably a long list, although nothing that either doesn't affect the man on the street negatively or doesn't both make him shed loads of cash and allows him to hide ot for tax purposes.
The only Mogg I want having a say at No. 10 is Larry!
"What laws and/or rules that we currently have to comply with under EU rules would you change the day after a "'no-deal' Brexit?"