Eurostar brand to remain post-merger and to be complete in three years

[Roast Veg]

- Merging the websites will save €1m per month

They would save even more money with a pan-european ticketing system. Alas.

- Pan-network loyalty scheme to be launched

I hope that this is aimed at leisure travellers, but I fear it will be a "business" product.

- UK remains the biggest market, but 'Eurostar henceforth is a European company... continental extensions will be simpler from Brussels'

Integrated ticketing with other operators would be a boon to long distance travel, but that's not news.

- The four capitals are key, but 'we will have to return to the towns where we have already been' - objective for May 2022.

Great news for the people of Ashford and Ebbsfleet. Looking forward to their return.

- London-Paris competition - 'It's up to Renfe to prove that there is room for two operators... We're just asking that the rules apply...'
- Highlights rail vs flight disadvantage btwn London & Amsterdam. '60% of charges are for infrastructure at E*... can't match flights without selling at a loss. Single passage through Chunnel is €16, 'we need fair competition... rail infra should be reimbursed over a century not a few decades.

These points are, I think, not unrelated. E* feel quite hard done by and want a better deal, and they certainly don't want Renfe to manage to shirk the costs. It would be interesting to see how much the channel tunnel debt package is, and plot some timescales for different access charges per passenger.

 

[superalbs]

I think "Thalys by Eurostar" would be a good plan to differentiate in that way - they have already said they are keeping the red.

Maybe they'll go for something like 'Eurostar Ruby' for Thalys, and something else for traditional Eurostar as it is now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That just makes them sound indecisive, or that they're in a never ending transitional phase. "Brand X by Brand Y" names always grate for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

OK, the "by" slogan perhaps not, but what's wrong with sub-brands e.g. "InterCity" as a sub-brand of "British Rail", possibly two of the strongest brands the UK has ever seen?

The Eurostar name would work fine for all services. SNCF and their various subsidiaries seem to have "branding Tourette's" with all their various bits competing with themselves (OuiGo, InOui, Izy, etc.) and I don't think they need any encouragement to come up with another.

There is something in the French psyche about making up silly brand names for things, e.g. the way Orange (before the EE merger) used to name their mobile phone tariffs after animals instead of a name that in some way associated them with the type of user they might appeal to. It has long been thus, certainly with SNCF.

Maybe they'll go for something like 'Eurostar Ruby' for Thalys, and something else for traditional Eurostar as it is now.

"Eurostar Ruby" and "Eurostar Blue"? "Blue" and "black" seem to have premium connotations in business terms.

It's funny how Eurostar manages to use the exact same colour scheme as Ryanair and Ikea*, both definitely operations that appeal to those wanting lower prices (though both also capable of pricing up when it makes sense), and yet retaining the feel of a premium brand.

* Yes, I know it's the colours of the EU flag (and, regarding Ikea, the Swedish flag) and quite intentionally, but I suspect more people will associate blue and yellow with those two than with the EU itself.

 

[SHD]

Now that's interesting... it's the first time anyone, anywhere, has confirmed what teh charge per passenger through the tunnel is for Eurostar isn't it?

...and it's rather less than the figures everyone has spent years speculating about.

I do not know who has been speculating, but it was really useless speculation, because the charge per passenger is a public piece of information - it is found in the Fixed Link network statement:

https://www.getlinkgroup.com/content/uploads/2021/02/DRR_NS_2022_EN_Final2.pdf
page 44

and for previous years:

https://www.getlinkgroup.com/content/uploads/2019/09/Eurotunnel-network-statement-2019.pdf

https://www.getlinkgroup.com/content/uploads/2019/09/2018-Eurotunnel-Network-Statement.pdf

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I do not know who has been speculating, but it was really useless speculation, because the charge per passenger is a public piece of information - it is found in the Fixed Link network statement:

Quite a lot of people over the years - and trying to get the figure out of Eurostar was pretty much in the same category as "blood out of a stone!"

I see also that I've missed a typo as well, which I only spotted in your quote! I thought I'd sorted them all out... *sigh*

 

[BRX]

It's funny how Eurostar manages to use the exact same colour scheme as Ryanair and Ikea*, both definitely operations that appeal to those wanting lower prices (though both also capable of pricing up when it makes sense), and yet retaining the feel of a premium brand.

Eurostar go for a darker blue and more lemony yellow. But there are lots of brands that use a blue and yellow colour scheme, so I don't think Ryanair or Ikea would necessarily be the first association. You could say that Wagons Lits used a similar scheme for example.

This reminds me, I've always wondered, was it just coincidence that South West Trains had such a similar livery to the American air carrier Southwest?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have wondered, but given that SWT is just Stagecoach colours I suspect it probably is a genuine coincidence. The original Stagecoach liveries that introduced those colours were nothing like the planes.

 

[ExRes]

I have wondered, but given that SWT is just Stagecoach colours I suspect it probably is a genuine coincidence. The original Stagecoach liveries that introduced those colours were nothing like the planes.

Just out of interest do you have any idea when the SWT blue livery was introduced? Southwest Airlines used 'Desert Gold' until 2001 then 'Canyon Blue' to 2014 when the current 'Heart' was introduced

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just out of interest do you have any idea when the SWT blue livery was introduced? Southwest Airlines used 'Desert Gold' until 2001 then 'Canyon Blue' to 2014 when the current 'Heart' was introduced

The blue was first used when the 450s were introduced, before that (e.g. Junipers) it was the white livery more like the beachball bus one. According to Wiki they started service in 2003, but would have been specified and first built a year or two before that. That says coincidence to me.

 

[ExRes]

The blue was first used when the 450s were introduced, before that (e.g. Junipers) it was the white livery more like the beachball bus one. According to Wiki they started service in 2003, but would have been specified and first built a year or two before that. That says coincidence to me.

Yes, unless there was common ownership of the companies it was always likely to be coincidence

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, unless there was common ownership of the companies it was always likely to be coincidence

Indeed. It's also beachball livery with the colours swapped round, nothing completely new, and that was in use for a number of years beforehand.

 

[Grumbler]

These points are, I think, not unrelated. E* feel quite hard done by and want a better deal, and they certainly don't want Renfe to manage to shirk the costs. It would be interesting to see how much the channel tunnel debt package is, and plot some timescales for different access charges per passenger.

Isn't one of the reasons for the high fees charged by Eurotunnel the speed differential between Eurostar and the shuttles? I would thave thought that the impact on Eurostar's schedules by going a bit slower in the tunnel would be fairly minimal.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Isn't one of the reasons for the high fees charged by Eurotunnel the speed differential between Eurostar and the shuttles? I would have thought that the impact on Eurostar's schedules by going a bit slower in the tunnel would be fairly minimal.

The Eurostars do slow down for the tunnel passage - they match the speed profile of the Euroshuttles when in the tunnel.

I think the hauled freight is slower, though, by about 25%.

 

[Peterthegreat]

The Eurostars do slow down for the tunnel passage - they match the speed profile of the Euroshuttles when in the tunnel.

I think the hauled freight is slower, though, by about 25%.

Whilst Eurostars slow down it is to 160 km/h the normal speed for the shuttles is 140 km/h. Hauled freights run at between 100 and 120 km/h.

 

[Wolfie]

Glad to hear that, it's a strong brand that works for the entire operation. Far better then 'GreenSpeed'!

Shame that there is long established railway use of the brand elsewhere in Europe - Eurostar Italia... Perhaps they can pay FS off.....

 

[jopsuk]

The Thalys PBA sets (which are tri-current TGV Réseau, but red) are 25 years old, the quad current PBKA are only a couple of years younger. I guess that decisions about livery of future fleet- and what that might be, more importantly- are still a pretty long way off given SNCF seem to reckon on about 35-40 years service (based on the Sud Est sets) for TGV stock.

 

[33Hz]

still a pretty long way off given SNCF seem to reckon on about 35-40 years service (based on the Sud Est sets) for TGV stock.

But they are scrapping other generations already now - for example there are Reseau units turning up in scrapyards already.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's funny how Eurostar manages to use the exact same colour scheme as Ryanair and Ikea*, both definitely operations that appeal to those wanting lower prices (though both also capable of pricing up when it makes sense), and yet retaining the feel of a premium brand.

* Yes, I know it's the colours of the EU flag (and, regarding Ikea, the Swedish flag) and quite intentionally, but I suspect more people will associate blue and yellow with those two than with the EU itself.

Or perhaps colours don't have a specific meaning applied to them regardless of context, to most people at least. In certain contexts red means danger, but that never made people afraid of shopping at Dixons. I think you may be over-analysing a bit here...

 

[jon0844]

Oh I don't know, I always had a fear inside Dixons of being harassed for extended warranties, finance or to buy an HDMI cable costing £100....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Shame that there is long established railway use of the brand elsewhere in Europe - Eurostar Italia... Perhaps they can pay FS off.....

Trenitalia now concentrates its marketing on the Freccia... brand names ("Le Frecce") and Eurostar Italia was discontinued as a brand in 2012.

So looking at the Eurotunnel documents (p40 et seq), the one-way toll for Eurostar railway passengers in 2022 is effectively €18 (€17.93 at 2020 prices).
This does not seem very different to the charge when Eurostar started, and the "RPI - 1.2%" annual ratchet will have made its mark.
This compares with the RPI + 1% formula typical for domestic rail fares.

 

[Wolfie]

Trenitalia now concentrates its marketing on the Freccia... brand names ("Le Frecce") and Eurostar Italia was discontinued as a brand in 2012.

So looking at the Eurotunnel documents (p40 et seq), the one-way toll for Eurostar railway passengers in 2022 is effectively €18 (€17.93 at 2020 prices).

Interesting, that l didn't know as Eurostar Italia still shows hits online. TY. Guess that shows how long it's been since l last went to Italy....

 

[AlbertBeale]

Oh I don't know, I always had a fear inside Dixons of being harassed for extended warranties, finance or to buy an HDMI cable costing £100....

You mean Dixons has staff who'd know what an HDMI cable is??

 

[jon0844]

You mean Dixons has staff who'd know what an HDMI cable is??

I think at one time Dixons staff were only taught how to sell extended warranties, finance or selling profitable items to make up for otherwise low-margin goods.

Way back when Comet was still around, I felt like I was being followed by a chugger on the street when they were going on and on and on about me taking a 5 year warranty on a £9.99 kettle*. I kept saying I'd just buy another if it broke (not least because I'd hardly wait for a replacement or repair on a kettle over just going out and getting another) but they wouldn't give up until I said I'd leave the store instead.

* Amazon is now doing this, offering warranties on items costing £4 or £5.

 

[TheGrew]

This merger has now had approval to go ahead: https://www.euronews.com/travel/202...-train-travel-between-five-european-countries

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

From Railway Gazette:

Under plans announced in October 2021, Eurostar and Thalys are to be transferred to a single holding company in which SNCF will have a 55·75% share and its passenger business SNCF Voyageurs will have exclusive management control, with SNCB having a 18·5% stake and Patina Rail 25·75%. The company will be based in Brussels and will use the Eurostar name for all services, with the Thalys brand to be phased out.

The British interest is part of the Patina Rail (CDPQ/Hermes Infrastructure) shareholding, and won't be more than 10%.

 

[jon0844]

From Railway Gazette:


The British interest is part of the Patina Rail (CDPQ/Hermes Infrastructure) shareholding, and won't be more than 10%.

Unfortunate name Hermes, as that conjures up an image of a train getting totally lost and turning up at the wrong station two days later...

 

[LLivery]

The merge is complete https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/eurostar-thalys-merger-completed/

Eurostar - Thalys merger completed​

THE merger of international high-speed operators Eurostar and Thalys has been completed with the creation of a new holding company, Eurostar Group, based in Brussels.

Eurostar Group is 55.75% owned by SNCF Voyageurs, the long-distance passenger business of the French national operator, with 19.31% held by Canadian pension fund Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ), 18.5% by Belgian state operator SNCB and 6.44% by funds managed by Federated Hermes Infrastructure.

The new holding company owns 100% of railway operating companies Eurostar International and THI Factory (Thalys), whose head offices remain in London and Brussels respectively.

The shareholders have appointed Mr Jacques Damas as CEO of Eurostar Group. He is currently CEO of Eurostar International.

The merger of Eurostar, which operates from London to Paris, Brussels and Amsterdam, and Thalys which operates from Paris to Brussels, Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Cologne, began in September 2019 under the Green Speed project.

Postponed due to the Covid-19 pandemic, the project was relaunched in autumn 2021 and received approval from the European Commission at the end of March 2022.

The shareholders in Eurostar and Thalys say they are more convinced than ever that this new alliance will enable them to meet the growing demand for sustainable travel in Europe by developing rail.

They aim to grown passenger traffic to 30 million passengers a year over the next 10 years, from a base of 18 million passengers in 2019, under a sole Eurostar brand.

The merger should also provide a powerful means of accelerating recovery from the pandemic at both Eurostar and Thalys.

In 2019 Eurostar International carried 11.1 million passengers and recorded a turnover of £1.02bn. It currently employs 1460 staff from 34 countries.

Thalys carried a total of 7.85 million passengers in 2019 when turnover was €549.5m. The company employs 614 staff from 11 countries.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @JaJaWa to provide an update.

 

[JaJaWa]

Trains are now having their branding updated to Thalys: Member of the Eurostar Group
Video: https://twitter.com/NewsroomThalys/status/1584850828749602819

The website logo has been updated to Thalys: Eurostar Group and a new statement has been released

Thalys becomes Eurostar | Thalys - Eurostar

Thalys and Eurostar are joining forces under the Eurostar name. A single brand, a single website and a single app. Learn more about the coming changes.

www.thalys.com

A unique travel experience
In recent weeks we have joined forces with Eurostar to offer you a unique international travel experience across five countries.
Together, we share the same raison d'être: connecting Europeans across borders. Today, no train in the world crosses so many borders every day!
In 2023, we will both evolve towards a single brand: Eurostar. So, for a few days now, Thalys has been proudly displaying the words "Member of the Eurostar Group".

Choosing the Eurostar Group also means
• a responsible journey, generating less CO2 than plane or car
• an even better seamless experience and comfortable travel, from city centre to city centre
• new destinations with Eurostar taking you to London, the buzzing capital of the United Kingdom
So where would you like to go first?

New offers and services
For now, there are no changes to the way you book and travel with Eurostar and Thalys. But in a few months, we will be ready to offer you new services.
We think the coming together of the two companies calls for a celebration.
Make sure you check the Eurostar and Thalys websites on 08 November to discover the first of many surprises...
Stay tuned and see you soon on board one of our trains!

 

[JaJaWa]

New branding for the combined operation revealed

Source: https://twitter.com/newsroomthalys/