Eurostar e320 / Class 374 "Velaro"

[Peter Sarf]

I do apologise for having a strong opinion that is also held by a good few other people.

That aside, how many are in service? And I'm assuming its just Paris services they are booked on for now. Where else are they planned to run to (aside from the Netherlands services because the class 373's cannot run there)

See here for my latest upthread. In a nutshell all but 374013 & 374014 are in service. Having said that I have no proof that 374001+374002 & 374003+274004 are in service either.

 

[southern442]

See here for my latest upthread. In a nutshell all but 374013 & 374014 are in service. Having said that I have no proof that 374001+374002 & 374003+274004 are in service either.

Thanks. Are they still only booked for Paris workings?

 

[trainmania100]

I went to Ashford on Saturday and only ever saw one 373 and that was the one with the blue power car
The rest on the fast line were 374s most of the day

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks. Are they still only booked for Paris workings?

At St Pancras I have only ever seen the 374s on services to/from Paris. Very roughly 50% of the Paris services. Last time I was there was 09/03/2016 however but I get the impression the 374s are meant for the Paris services.

Bear in mind that ten pairs of 374s is a small proportion of the whole fleet which has/had 31 pairs of 373s (11 British, 4 Belgian and 16 French and ignoring the 4 North of London pairs). So almost 25% assuming no 373s withdrawn, but possibly more like 33%.

Some of the services I have seen 374s at St Pancras are
Departures to Paris :-

12:24
15:31
18:01
20:01 quite often​

Arrivals from Paris :-

15:30
17:39
18:32 quite often
21:39 quite often
22:39 quite often​

Its not an exhaustive list and I have mainly visited in the afternoon and/or evening. I think it is possible that they are not using much more than half the 374s on any given day although I am not there long enough to judge accurately.

Remember though I have not been paying attention for the last month. But I suspect that only 374013+374014 has not visited StPancras yet.

 

[AlexNL]

You won't see 374's working commercial services into Brussels yet, as the sets have not yet been authorised to work in that country.

 

[Mordac]

Anyone know if the first 10 sets are all in service by now?

 

[BananaRepublic]

.....Bear in mind that ten pairs of 374s is a small proportion of the whole fleet which has/had 31 pairs of 373s (11 British, 4 Belgian and 16 French and ignoring the 4 North of London pairs). So almost 25% assuming no 373s withdrawn, but possibly more like 33%.
......

A number of 373's have been withdrawn over the last couple of years.
These are known to include the 3x "Three Capitals" sets, previously operated by SNCF on domestic services and the 7x former NoL sets.
Details are patchy at best, but it's also thought one 373 set went to a French engineering and research centre, but there's scant information about that.

Strictly speaking, all of the remaining 373's now belong to Eurostar International, ownership having been transferred to them when that company was established in 2010.
There is no longer the same sort of British, Belgian and French ownership as in the past.

 

[507021]

I went to Paris on one of the Class 374 sets back in April, and I have to say I was extremely impressed by it. The interior was bright and spacious, with very comfortable seats and the legroom was more than sufficient. Without any shadow of a doubt, it was the best train I've ever been on. I'm hoping to go on one again later in the year, but I'll have to wait and see!

I did like the 373 unit on the return journey, but I don't think they're as good as the 374s.

 

[class387]

I went to Paris on one of the Class 374 sets back in April, and I have to say I was extremely impressed by it. The interior was bright and spacious, with very comfortable seats and the legroom was more than sufficient. Without any shadow of a doubt, it was the best train I've ever been on. I'm hoping to go on one again later in the year, but I'll have to wait and see!

I did like the 373 unit on the return journey, but I don't think they're as good as the 374s.

Yay! Someone who agrees with me!

 

[AlexNL]

At the end of April, unit 4013/4014 came to the Netherlands for trial runs. I've pictured it just after it crossed the border at Nispen (Roosendaal):


Eurostar e320, Nispen by Alex van Herwijnen, on Flickr


I'm looking forward to taking a trip on them

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Can the 374s in theory run on any route that the DB ICEs run on?

 

[33Hz]

A number of 373's have been withdrawn over the last couple of years.
These are known to include the 3x "Three Capitals" sets, previously operated by SNCF on domestic services and the 7x former NoL sets.
Details are patchy at best, but it's also thought one 373 set went to a French engineering and research centre, but there's scant information about that.

I'm currently travelling on a set which has the remnants of the French second class markings on the door of one of the coaches, so some part of those three capitals sets survives.

 

[47513 Severn]

I'm currently travelling on a set which has the remnants of the French second class markings on the door of one of the coaches, so some part of those three capitals sets survives.

Almost certainly just a door swapped from another set. There has been a sorry looking set parked up at Temple Mills seemingly forever with nearly all its doors missing and covered over. I guess a lot of swapping takes place.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I'm currently travelling on a set which has the remnants of the French second class markings on the door of one of the coaches, so some part of those three capitals sets survives.

Almost certainly just a door swapped from another set. There has been a sorry looking set parked up at Temple Mills seemingly forever with nearly all its doors missing and covered over. I guess a lot of swapping takes place.

Very likely to be spare parts cannibalised from withdrawn vehicles.



Here is one of the SNCF sets (3227) lying in a scrap line....

There are photos of another one at a different location, on this German web site (scroll down the page)......

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?30,7457724,page=all



Here is what remains of 3225 ......

...and withdrawn vehicles without doors....

mm

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting that TGV power cars appear to be coupled on using drawhook and buffers. Old habits die hard...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How many years have the 373s got before they reach their design lifespan?

 

[Harbornite]

How many years have the 373s got before they reach their design lifespan?

Either 2026 or 2036, depending on whether their intended lifespan was 30 or 40 years.

 

[BananaRepublic]

How many years have the 373s got before they reach their design lifespan?

Either 2026 or 2036, depending on whether their intended lifespan was 30 or 40 years.

The expected or design lifespan of HS trains appears to be a lot less than older "classic" stock.
25 - 30 years seems to be typical of trains already retired from HS duty across the world.
Some Japanese HS trains have been replace at a much younger age.

The 373's are now more than 20 years old and the mid-life update being carried out on most of the remaining fleet, is intended to allow service to continue beyond 2020.
That suggests they were originally good for 25 years service (with expected overhauls and mods along the way).
The update may allow them to be kept in service until the mid to late 2020's (another 10 + years from now), meaning some will have a total lifespan of 30 to 35 years.

If passenger traffic growth is sufficiently strong, I suspect they may be replaced much earlier by (possibly) Duplex stock.
That's just speculation on my part.





mm

 

[Harbornite]

The expected or design lifespan of HS trains appears to be a lot less than older "classic" stock.
25 - 30 years seems to be typical of trains already retired from HS duty across the world.
Some Japanese HS trains have been replace at a much younger age.

The 373's are now more than 20 years old and the mid-life update being carried out on most of the remaining fleet, is intended to allow service to continue beyond 2020.
That suggests they were originally good for 25 years service (with expected overhauls and mods along the way).
The update may allow them to be kept in service until the mid to late 2020's (another 10 + years from now), meaning some will have a total lifespan of 30 to 35 years.

If passenger traffic growth is sufficiently strong, I suspect they may be replaced much earlier by (possibly) Duplex stock.
That's just speculation on my part.





mm

Yes, and I should add that some 373 sets have already been scrapped in France.

 

[33Hz]

There are photos of another one at a different location, on this German web site (scroll down the page)......

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?30,7457724,page=all

I passed that site earlier in the year and didn't see any 373s there, just a couple of TGV PSEs waiting for the chop. I guess it's already history.


Frankly I find it amazing that a company making only £50m operating profit can blow a billion on new trains when the ones they have still have life in them.

Or that the French are arbitrarily scrapping the only true HS sets that are UK classic compatible.

 

[hwl]

I passed that site earlier in the year and didn't see any 373s there, just a couple of TGV PSEs waiting for the chop. I guess it's already history.


Frankly I find it amazing that a company making only £50m operating profit can blow a billion on new trains when the ones they have still have life in them.

Or that the French are arbitrarily scrapping the only true HS sets that are UK classic compatible.

The operating cost (are there big maintenance issues on 373s?) of the new units may be substantially lower and the ability to get another 100+ pax per service on the busy ones will also help

 

[BananaRepublic]

I passed that site earlier in the year and didn't see any 373s there, just a couple of TGV PSEs waiting for the chop. I guess it's already history.....

Those photos were posted on that forum in June 2015, so unless that retired set is now parked up somewhere else, it may well be history.

....Frankly I find it amazing that a company making only £50m operating profit can blow a billion on new trains when the ones they have still have life in them....

If the 373's only had a few more years left in them, without the update, then that wasn't much remaining life at all.
A few things to consider....

Firstly, Eurostar needed extra trains to allow them to expand their range of services and routes.

Secondly, the age of the older stock and the cost of keeping it running.
Increasing age often means increasing maintenance requirements, which equals increased costs/overheads and probably reduced availability.
Do you pour more money into the update and refurb, when the economics of buying new, more up to date and probably cheaper to maintain trains, makes more sense.

Thirdly, asset value.
When a train no longer has any asset value, it can have an adverse effect on the balance sheet.

The 373's are now more than halfway through their useful life, but they will still be around for another 10 years or so.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would a lot of the traction package of the 373 now be out-of-date/obsolete?

 

[TRAX]

Not more out of date than that of a Class 90.

 

[Mikey C]

The expected or design lifespan of HS trains appears to be a lot less than older "classic" stock.
25 - 30 years seems to be typical of trains already retired from HS duty across the world.
Some Japanese HS trains have been replace at a much younger age.

The 373's are now more than 20 years old and the mid-life update being carried out on most of the remaining fleet, is intended to allow service to continue beyond 2020.
That suggests they were originally good for 25 years service (with expected overhauls and mods along the way).
The update may allow them to be kept in service until the mid to late 2020's (another 10 + years from now), meaning some will have a total lifespan of 30 to 35 years.

If passenger traffic growth is sufficiently strong, I suspect they may be replaced much earlier by (possibly) Duplex stock.
That's just speculation on my part.





mm

Is passenger growth that strong? Ultimately Eurostar is still operating the same basic routes to Paris and Brussels at the moment, and I can't imagine travel to those cities has changed much in the period since HS1 was completed

 

[RobShipway]

Is passenger growth that strong? Ultimately Eurostar is still operating the same basic routes to Paris and Brussels at the moment, and I can't imagine travel to those cities has changed much in the period since HS1 was completed

Certainly for Brussels there has been completion I believe in more recent years of it's own HS1 route, rather than using existing tracks as was done before into Brussels.

 

[Harbornite]

Not more out of date than that of a Class 90.

Class 90's are a few years older and partly based off the 87's, and rather less complex than 373's.

 

[Phil.]

The expected or design lifespan of HS trains appears to be a lot less than older "classic" stock.
25 - 30 years seems to be typical of trains already retired from HS duty across the world.
Some Japanese HS trains have been replace at a much younger age.

The 373's are now more than 20 years old and the mid-life update being carried out on most of the remaining fleet, is intended to allow service to continue beyond 2020.
That suggests they were originally good for 25 years service (with expected overhauls and mods along the way).
The update may allow them to be kept in service until the mid to late 2020's (another 10 + years from now), meaning some will have a total lifespan of 30 to 35 years.

If passenger traffic growth is sufficiently strong, I suspect they may be replaced much earlier by (possibly) Duplex stock.
That's just speculation on my part.





mm

Passenger growth on Eurostar is not strong. There is a steady % increase year on year but "strong" is not an adjective I would use. Slow and steady perhaps. I don't think that they'll be filling those shiny new trains mid-week just yet.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Passenger growth on Eurostar is not strong. There is a steady % increase year on year but "strong" is not an adjective I would use. Slow and steady perhaps. I don't think that they'll be filling those shiny new trains mid-week just yet.

I didn't say it was strong.
I merely speculated that if passenger growth was to be sufficiently strong (over the coming years), it might be a possible reason for earlier replacement with higher capacity units.
The example I gave was Duplex stock, but it could easily be more 374's.

 

[Phil.]

I didn't say it was strong.
I merely speculated that if passenger growth was to be sufficiently strong (over the coming years), it might be a possible reason for earlier replacement with higher capacity units.
The example I gave was Duplex stock, but it could easily be more 374's.

Hey I wasn't arguing with you or questioning your judgement. I was just strengthening your assertion and stating why it would be unlikely for a need for high capacity trains.