Eurostar not serving Kent.

[yorksrob]

Personally I dont think Eurostar will ever serve the Kent stations again. Eurostar have let their market share slip away and it wont be easy to regain. Given the extortionate Kent fares its just uncompetitive much easier to drive via Le shuttle to anywhere but Gare de Nord. Brussels is 170 miles from Ashford, Lille 120.
Its rumoured that KLM will be restarting its shuttle service from Manston to Schipol in2025 much easier than the cross London Faff to Heathrow.

A bit rubbish if you want to go from Kent to the Continent.

Why is it even Eurostar's decision ? Surely stops in Kent should be part of their licensing agreement.

 

[Trainbike46]

A bit rubbish if you want to go from Kent to the Continent.

Why is it even Eurostar's decision ? Surely stops in Kent should be part of their licensing agreement.

Eurostar is effectively an open-access operator, isn't it?

 

[yorksrob]

Eurostar is effectively an open-access operator, isn't it?

Open access operators still have to meet conditions for running.

Make the Ashford stops a condition.

 

[duesselmartin]

Not sure if you have to pay the OAO if you impose such operational restrictions on them. Otherwise Eurostar can always pass the cost on by either high fares or less services.

As to KLM, what happened to flight shaming?
My friends in Brussels dont even consider a flight for London journeys anymore. Rail is the natural thing. Amsterdam is a bit further but even a three hour and a half journey is comfortable. The current 4 hours plus can surely be reduced?

 

[Trainbike46]

Not sure if you have to pay the OAO if you impose such operational restrictions on them. Otherwise Eurostar can always pass the cost on by either high fares or less services.

As to KLM, what happened to flight shaming?
My friends in Brussels dont even consider a flight for London journeys anymore. Rail is the natural thing. Amsterdam is a bit further but even a three hour and a half journey is comfortable. The current 4 hours plus can surely be reduced?

I believe there are plans to reduce the time taken for the Amsterdam service, primarily by reducing the length of the Brussels stop

 

[Welby]

I saw an advert on a Stagecoach bus last week that DFDS run a bus from London to Dunkerque, which calls at least at Bluewater, Canterbury and Dover Priory, it is £25 single, £30 day return.

 

[miklcct]

Given the extortionate Kent fares its just uncompetitive much easier to drive via Le shuttle to anywhere but Gare de Nord. Brussels is 170 miles from Ashford, Lille 120.

What's the normal way for non-drivers from Kent to go to France?

 

[ashkeba]

I saw an advert on a Stagecoach bus last week that DFDS run a bus from London to Dunkerque, which calls at least at Bluewater, Canterbury and Dover Priory, it is £25 single, £30 day return.

I can see that day return and the Dunkerque stop is a hypermarket. I did not see the singles.

 

[station_road]

In 1998 Connex ran a coach from Ashford to Calais through the tunnel, with through rail tickets available - I used it once, were only a handful of other passengers and it didn't last long so I doubt there would be much of a market for that again. In Calais it stopped outside the Ville station, and possibly one of the hypermarkets as well.

(found a photo of one of the coaches here - credit to Michael Wadman for the picture - https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/6290880558)

 

[johnnychips]

Its rumoured that KLM will be restarting its shuttle service from Manston to Schipol in2025 much easier than the cross London Faff to Heathrow.

Manston airport closed in 2014.

 

[Trainbike46]

Manston airport closed in 2014.

Maybe KLM hasn't realised that yet? They do usually give the impression of living at least 15 years in the past...

 

[Benjwri]

Manston airport closed in 2014.

Manston Airport has just received Government consent to reopen as a cargo hub with some passenger flights, and airlines such as KLM have expressed interest in running flights from there.

The UK government has given formal approval for development work on the new Manston Airport to reopen, more than eight years after it ceased operations.
[...]
The airport will operate as a dedicated air freight facility along with some passenger services.

https://simpleflying.com/manston-airport-development-government-approval/

 

[johnnychips]

@Benjwri Thanks for this helpful update.

 

[alex397]

If Manston does reopen, and passenger flights return, I will certainly consider getting a flight from there. It will likely be far more convenient than going up to Eurostar in London or a London airport.
So much for reducing the amount of flying I do, but this country is not making it easy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2022 ==

I saw an advert on a Stagecoach bus last week that DFDS run a bus from London to Dunkerque, which calls at least at Bluewater, Canterbury and Dover Priory, it is £25 single, £30 day return.

Interesting, I have not heard of this at all. Certainly something I would consider. Although the delays at the dock border crossing could be off putting.

Hopefully they advertise it better than Eurostar advertised travel from Ebbsfleet/Ashford

 

[32475]

It’ll be interesting to see how much longer Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and Stratford International remain so called.

 

[yorksrob]

Will platforms 3and 4 once again be integrated into the domestic service ?

 

[zwk500]

Will platforms 3and 4 once again be integrated into the domestic service ?

Not while the international service is still mothballed rather than outright cancelled. It would require system changes and reconfiguration of the station footbridges to allow it, and I think (in a terrible irony) the platform height and profile was modified to allow class 374s to stop there which would be too high a step for domestic gauge trains.

 

[yorksrob]

Not while the international service is still mothballed rather than outright cancelled. It would require system changes and reconfiguration of the station footbridges to allow it, and I think (in a terrible irony) the platform height and profile was modified to allow class 374s to stop there which would be too high a step for domestic gauge trains.

The tracks looked a bit rusty when I was there last week !

 

[32475]

If Manston does reopen, and passenger flights return, I will certainly consider getting a flight from there. It will likely be far more convenient than going up to Eurostar in London or a London airport.
So much for reducing the amount of flying I do, but this country is not making it easy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2022 ==


Interesting, I have not heard of this at all. Certainly something I would consider. Although the delays at the dock border crossing could be off putting.

Hopefully they advertise it better than Eurostar advertised travel from Ebbsfleet/Ashford

The new Thanet Parkway station which is due to open soon is only a mile or two from the Manston passenger terminal (such that it is). You’d like to think that there will be a coordinated shuttle bus running between the two or is that just a whimsical thought of the purist optimism?

 

[bspahh]

I saw an advert on a Stagecoach bus last week that DFDS run a bus from London to Dunkerque, which calls at least at Bluewater, Canterbury and Dover Priory, it is £25 single, £30 day return.

It looks like this is the London Dunkerque coach service:

London to Dunkirk with DFDS: Duty-Free Shopping Day Trip - Anderson Tours

Duty-Free Shopping: London to Dunkirk with DFDS BOOK NOW Dunkirk Duty Free Shop Full-day DFDS host on board Coach transport from Greenwich, Bromley, Bexleyheath & Dover DFDS ferry transport + meals included COVID-19 Update as of 14 February 2022 Kindly … Read More

andersontours.co.uk

However, when I click the link to make a booking, there is an error, and its not listed on the front page https://andersontours.co.uk

There are Christmas market trips to Bruges for £109 https://andersontours.co.uk/tour/bruges-christmas-market/

 

[Joe Paxton]

It’ll be interesting to see how much longer Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and Stratford International remain so called.

Stratford International has carried the misleading suffix since it opened in 2009, despite never having had international services call there.

 

[Chester1]

Not sure if you have to pay the OAO if you impose such operational restrictions on them. Otherwise Eurostar can always pass the cost on by either high fares or less services.

As to KLM, what happened to flight shaming?
My friends in Brussels dont even consider a flight for London journeys anymore. Rail is the natural thing. Amsterdam is a bit further but even a three hour and a half journey is comfortable. The current 4 hours plus can surely be reduced?

Flight shaming has never been UK government policy. Eurostar has most of the London to Paris and Brussels markets and has taken a minority of the Amsterdam market. Most of the remaining air passengers are changing planes. To ban sale of point to point plane tickets Eurostar would need to be state run by the four governments as a franchise, which would be a political nightmare or would need a competitor to prevent abuse of monopoly. Copying France on limiting internal flights would be much easier to manage and would have a larger environmental benefit.

Our government does not get involved in Eurostar e.g. forcing shareholders to bail it out. The trade offs of stopping at Ebbsfleet and Ashford are extended journey times for London passengers and additional running costs. Eurostar will go for the most cost effective option but this is likely to be the option that attracts the most passengers. It seems to be relatively finely balanced between a simpler faster London service and stopping.

 

[Benjwri]

It’ll be interesting to see how much longer Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International and Stratford International remain so called.

Considering I believe it was recently declined, on the basis of cost, to rename Colchester Town to reflect it becoming a city, I highly doubt they will rename any of those stations, as doing so would be to admit a huge particular failure.

HS1 has long claimed Stratford retains its name because it has the capacity for international services, I expect they will claim the same for the others.

 

[32475]

Stratford International has carried the misleading suffix since it opened in 2009, despite never having had international services call there.

That’s a good point. If there isn’t one already, perhaps there should be a separate thread on misnomer stations.

 

[martin2345uk]

Is it true they’re also abandoning the direct Disneyland route?

 

[leytongabriel]

So do Ebbsfleet and Ashford have passport control and security facilities which have just sat unused/mothballed for the last two years?

Yep. And how much public money went into building them and Stratford 'International' ? I'm not sure that Eurostar should have been allowed the 'commercial' choice not to stop any more, especially with the whole Thanet revival project. Looks like they get away with murder.

 

[ShadowKnight]

Getlink did seem to plan on inducing competition by planning on buying their own trainsets to lease out to competitors.

I have not seen anything yet but my money would be on some sort of Renfe operation

 

[Joe Paxton]

Manston Airport has just received Government consent to reopen as a cargo hub with some passenger flights, and airlines such as KLM have expressed interest in running flights from there.

https://simpleflying.com/manston-airport-development-government-approval/

I'd not put money on that happening (the passenger flights specifically), given the history.

 

[Class172]

Is it true they’re also abandoning the direct Disneyland route?

It would appear so: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eurostar-disney-direct-services-2023.236286/

 

[zwk500]

Yep. And how much public money went into building them and Stratford 'International' ? I'm not sure that Eurostar should have been allowed the 'commercial' choice not to stop any more, especially with the whole Thanet revival project. Looks like they get away with murder.

The consideration is not just eurostar's but also the Border Force of both counties, given the need for juxtaposed controls.