Excessive time to buy a ticket after a journey?.

[route:oxford]

What about those without cards or have a big purchase needed to be made by card later in the day? How would they pay?

I'm guessing you're not very good with money.

Generally speaking only the eccentric or bankrupt don't have cards, they are hardly worth worrying about and can still stand in a queue at the arrival station and buy a ticket with cash.

The answer is to help the majority at the lowest cost - there is already background systems available to run the transactions.

 

[beeza1]

Generally speaking only the eccentric or bankrupt don't have cards, they are hardly worth worrying about and can still stand in a queue at the arrival station and buy a ticket with cash.

What an arrogant statement to make, I know lots of people who are neither bankrupt nor eccentric who don't have any form of card, preferring to pay in cash. If you are happy to have everything you spend, what on and where you spend it recorded, that's up to you, all I ask is you show a little respect for those who demand a little more privacy.

 

[talltim]

Can the time spent queueing at the end of a journey count towards a delay-repay claim? Eg your train is 20 mins late then you end up spending 10 minutes buying a ticket. Now admittedly ticket buying time is not normally factored in, but neither is extra time at the end of the train trip.

 

[island]

What an arrogant statement to make, I know lots of people who are neither bankrupt nor eccentric who don't have any form of card, preferring to pay in cash. If you are happy to have everything you spend, what on and where you spend it recorded, that's up to you, all I ask is you show a little respect for those who demand a little more privacy.

I have to say I agree with route:via oxford that it is quite eccentric in this day and age not to use banks. Even bankrupts can have a basic account.

 

[beeza1]

I have to say I agree with route:via oxford that it is quite eccentric in this day and age not to use banks. Even bankrupts can have a basic account.

Where did I state they didn't use banks? all I said was they don't have a card, and prefer to use cash.

 

[transmanche]

What an arrogant statement to make, I know lots of people who are neither bankrupt nor eccentric who don't have any form of card

That's fine. But there's no reason to not to introduce a "means to buy on-line an instant e-ticket for journey that's in-course" which will benefit the majority. Those who do not wish to partake can queue up, as at present - and benefit from shorter queues.

 

[island]

Where did I state they didn't use banks? all I said was they don't have a card, and prefer to use cash.

Same difference. It is also quite eccentric for a person not to possess a bank card.

 

[bnm]

Even bankrupts can have a basic account.

At just two High Street Banks. Any problems in the past with either of those and you'll be out of luck.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...FZ2ZiZ2KQ&sig2=BOJXHOgYLZSCvps9eOsoRQ&cad=rja

 

[34D]

What happens if you can't contact a member of staff on board?
I was on a Northern service last week, which was very busy, the guard never came round, the guards "cabin" was seperated from the passenger compartment by a small corridor with a locked door, it took me almost an hour to get his attention so I could buy a ticket, I knew time would be tight at my interchange, as the train was running late, I did manage to buy a ticket and caught my connection with not much time to spare, if I had to purchase a ticket at the interchange I would have missed my connection and been delayed by over an hour.
Why should I have to be delayed through no fault of my own?

Assuming this is a class 150, I didn't think that that door at the back was supposed to be locked? The one at the cab itself yes, and both before the drivers cab, but not that one at the back?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What an arrogant statement to make, I know lots of people who are neither bankrupt nor eccentric who don't have any form of card, preferring to pay in cash. If you are happy to have everything you spend, what on and where you spend it recorded, that's up to you, all I ask is you show a little respect for those who demand a little more privacy.

I agree fully with this, and suspect others do too.

 

[bnm]

Same difference. It is also quite eccentric for a person not to possess a bank card.

Really? I know many people, neither eccentric nor bankrupt, who don't have access to a debit card. Even some with a Basic Bank Account may not have one. Santander and HSBC only offer an ATM card with their basic bank accounts.

I had only a savings account with paying in book and a Post Office Card Account for benefits until fairly recently. I had great difficulty in getting just a basic account and required the help of support workers from my local authority.

The truth is the banking industry would rather not have these customers at all. It was only under pressure from the government a few years ago that they began to offer basic accounts. Even now many hurdles are put in the way of those applying for such an account.

Also, nearly all of the accounts are NOT available to undischarged bankrupts.

Perhaps the rail industry would rather not have these customers as well. Only catering for those who have full banking facilities.

 

[beeza1]

Assuming this is a class 150, I didn't think that that door at the back was supposed to be locked? The one at the cab itself yes, and both before the drivers cab, but not that one at the back?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't know what class it was, but I am certain the guard used his !square key! to open the door.

I agree fully with this, and suspect others do too.

Thanks for that, we seem to be in the minority on this one though!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Spare guards at Bristol often get asked to go over and "queuebust".

I have seen that a few times, but I have also seen quite a lot of circumstances where there has been no one at all selling tickets "platform side" or the gates. They are missing a trick there, as all the gate attendance can do is let someone through the gates and hope they actually do go to the ticket office (rather than walk straight out).

Also, I'm not sure if you can confirm this or not, but I get the impression this is an area where Bristol has issues. I seem to always get a look of surprise when I try to buy a ticket there while I am changing trains (I travel from Oldfield Park which has no ticket buying facilities outside of the morning peak, and quite often the guard does not come around). That look of surprise suggests to me anyway, that a lof of people simply don't bother buying a ticket there while changing trains, and just jump on their connection assuming they won't get picked up on it.

 

[MikeWh]

Generally speaking only the eccentric or bankrupt don't have cards, they are hardly worth worrying about and can still stand in a queue at the arrival station and buy a ticket with cash.

What an arrogant statement to make, I know lots of people who are neither bankrupt nor eccentric who don't have any form of card, preferring to pay in cash. If you are happy to have everything you spend, what on and where you spend it recorded, that's up to you, all I ask is you show a little respect for those who demand a little more privacy.

I have to say I agree with route:via oxford that it is quite eccentric in this day and age not to use banks. Even bankrupts can have a basic account.

Thanks for that, we seem to be in the minority on this one though!

I wholeheartedly agree with beeza1 as well. My 16 year old son would like to know why he should suffer when he's neither eccentric, bankrupt or able to have cards due to his age!

 

[transmanche]

My 16 year old son would like to know why he should suffer

Not being able to access an additional payment system ("a means to buy on-line an instant e-ticket for journey that's in-course") is not being made to suffer...

 

[MikeWh]

Not being able to access an additional payment system ("a means to buy on-line an instant e-ticket for journey that's in-course") is not being made to suffer...

I disagree when the alternative is

they are hardly worth worrying about and can still stand in a queue at the arrival station and buy a ticket with cash.

And personally I'm not that happy that these people are not worth worrying about. An apology from route:oxford wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

So route: oxford is prepared to discriminate against under 18s, those who are unable to have a bank account, some pensioners who have very basic mobile telephones or those who would rather purchase things in cash as it helps them budget by making them wait in queues whilst cardholders get to just zoom through. So what if Mr Jones, a pensioner who has a basic Nokia 3310 with no other technology, wants to board at say Berny Arms and head to Liverpool Street. Guard unable to sell tickets. Should he be forced to wait at a gateline whilst Mrs Smith, a 24 year old banker with a Iphone can just get a eticket on her phone to do the same journey. Next thing suggested by route: oxford is probably going to be MG11ing Mr Jones for not having the appropriate phone/having notes instead of a card.

 

[transmanche]

So what if Mr Jones, a pensioner who has a basic Nokia 3310 with no other technology, wants to board at say Berny Arms and head to Liverpool Street. Guard unable to sell tickets. Should he be forced to wait at a gateline whilst Mrs Smith, a 24 year old banker with a Iphone can just get a eticket on her phone to do the same journey.

What about Mr Brown who bought his ticket in advance? Or Ms Green who purchased it from a card-only TVM? Or Mrs Baker who has a season ticket. Should they all be forced to wait at the gateline with Mr Jones so that he isn't "discriminated" against?

Seriously, that is just ridiculous.

Mr Jones is no worse off than at present. Mrs Smith is simply making use of an alternative method of paying for her ticket (as is Mr Brown, Ms Green and Mrs Baker).

 

[tony_mac]

I wholeheartedly agree with beeza1 as well. My 16 year old son would like to know why he should suffer when he's neither eccentric, bankrupt or able to have cards due to his age!

If he goes to Santander (amongst others) they will happily try and push a Visa debit card....

It's a stupidly long time to wait, but Temple Meads often seems to have trouble selling tickets. and What can you do about ot?

 

[Tomonthetrain]

What about Mr Brown who bought his ticket in advance? Or Ms Green who purchased it from a card-only TVM? Or Mrs Baker who has a season ticket. Should they all be forced to wait at the gateline with Mr Jones so that he isn't "discriminated" against?

Seriously, that is just ridiculous.

Mr Jones is no worse off than at present. Mrs Smith is simply making use of an alternative method of paying for her ticket (as is Mr Brown, Ms Green and Mrs Baker).

They'd all have a hard time getting those combinations of tickets from Berney Arms anyway.[/pendantmode]

 

[island]

I wholeheartedly agree with beeza1 as well. My 16 year old son would like to know why he should suffer when he's neither eccentric, bankrupt or able to have cards due to his age!

I am aware of debit cards being available to children aged 11 and up. I believe in any case that adulthood was at least implicit in the comments above.

 

[Jeni]

Generally speaking only the eccentric or bankrupt don't have cards, they are hardly worth worrying about and can still stand in a queue at the arrival station and buy a ticket with cash.

I have a card but rarely use it (or have money in the account to use it). Obviously I deserve to be inconvenienced.

I worry about our world when there are people out there with opinions like that!

 

[transmanche]

Obviously I deserve to be inconvenienced.

Exactly how are you being 'inconvenienced'?

 

[radamfi]

If you have a cashback credit card, which most people should be able to obtain, you are missing out on cashback whenever you use cash instead of the card.

I personally try to avoid joining trains at stations without ticket machines, although I hardly ever use such stations these days anyway as most of my travel is in the SE.

 

[beeza1]

If you have a cashback credit card, which most people should be able to obtain, you are missing out on cashback whenever you use cash instead of the card..

More and more places are now offering "cash" discounts, I have had anything up to 5% discount at hotels, restaurants, garages, etc, plus a lot of places now add a "card surcharge" of, again up to 5%, don't think "cashback" is anywhere near that figure.
I'm not against all this new technology, e-tickets, etc, but what happens when, not if it breaks down? the whole of the O2 network was "down" a few weeks ago don't forget, I can imagine an RPI's reaction when given the excuse, "I don't have a ticket because I can't get a signal on my mobile". he then checks said phone and surprise, surprise, the signal has come back, will he believe you, just read some of the posts on this forum and draw your own conclusion.

 

[bb21]

More and more places are now offering "cash" discounts, I have had anything up to 5% discount at hotels, restaurants, garages, etc, plus a lot of places now add a "card surcharge" of, again up to 5%, don't think "cashback" is anywhere near that figure.

Cash is expensive to handle for any retailer, so there are also retailers that are willing to offer small discounts for card payments. I don't think it is particularly helpful to go down this avenue as such discount-by-payment-method is unlikely to happen with the purchase of railway tickets imo.

I agree that it is insensitive to claim that certain groups of the population are hardly worth worrying about, however I cannot agree with the notion that it is discriminatory if an additional payment mechanism does not cater for everyone's needs. Are Northern card-only machines discriminatory against people who only have cash with them? Are onboard machines, should they be developed one day, cater for people wishing to pay by RTVs? People with certain valid payment methods have always received differing treatment, such as RTVs and cheques not being accepted at TVMs. If the introduction of these new payment methods do not result in worsening treatment of passengers whose preferred payment method is not catered for by these machines, then I cannot see how this is discriminatory.

In addition, there will be other factors to be considered with the introduction of these machines, such as the security of these machines if they contained cash. I fear that in current conditions, onboard cash ticket machines are nothing but a pipe dream.

I think we are sidetracking the real issue here, which is the inadequate staffing by FGW along the Severn Beach line and at Temple Meads station.

 

[route:oxford]

I wholeheartedly agree with beeza1 as well. My 16 year old son would like to know why he should suffer when he's neither eccentric, bankrupt or able to have cards due to his age!

Surely that's your choice not to allow him to have a debit card?

A Visa Debit card is available from the age of 11/12 with most banks.

A Pre-paid debit card for 8 year olds has been launched by www.pktmny.com in recent weeks.

Maybe you've got some explaining to do...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm curious what level of "suffering" the "victims" will be subject to if the techically and financially able can purchase an instant-ticket on-board a train?

It's not any different to buying an advance-purchase e-ticket at the moment, just different pricing and timing.

Perhaps I should sugar-coat the statement by using the term people who have made a "lifestyle choice" rather than more accurate eccentric and bankrupt.

He's a "Rail Entusiast"
He's a "Trainspotter"
He's "Eccentric"

The gateline and on-train staff will still be there to service the needy (and catch the crooked).

 

[MikeWh]

Surely that's your choice not to allow him to have a debit card?

A Visa Debit card is available from the age of 11/12 with most banks.

A Pre-paid debit card for 8 year olds has been launched by www.pktmny.com in recent weeks.

Maybe you've got some explaining to do...

OK. I didn't know that some banks give out debit cards to under 16s. I'm pretty sure Nationwide don't, which is where most of our accounts are. I do know that he could now have a card with a limited flexaccount, but as he's still at school, keeping the smart savings account with cash card seemed better value. If he was working it might be a different matter. I don't think I'd have trusted any of my kids with any sort of debit card at 8, but I realise some probably are trustworthy enough.

I'll accept the rest of your post as an apology and go and do some more research into kids accounts.

 

[beeza1]

If you are happy to have your, and your families spending habits monitered by the banks and probably sold on to third parties, fair enough use your cards all the time, I, and I suspect many others are not, so we will continue to use cash.
I notice there have been no replies to my question, "what happens when the technology breaks down?", because it no doubt will at some stage.

 

[cuccir]

I'm not sure that people should be changing to banks, rather than a Building Society, just to get the get the debit cards. Perhaps that they give out these cards to kids tells us something about banks.

I wonder how many people who moan about 'The Bankers' have their money in the Co-Op Bank, a Building Society or a Credit Union?

Getting back on topic:
Rather than ticket machines on trains, perhaps two/three ticket machines which are set up to sell tickets to a station, rather than from, would be helpful? Surely it would be a good idea at those stations - such as Temple Meads, Manchester Victoria, London Bridge - that seem to have a lot of busy arriving trains from stations without facilities?

 

[island]

I think such machines would see a lot of sales from Lawrence Hill, Salford Crescent, and New Cross respectively!

However, I have seen similar machines (called "exitfare") in the Washington DC metro system.