Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[Chris Hamilton]

There was a time, in living memory for most, when Motherwell was served by almost all ex-Glasgow, London services, in addition to every CrossCountry service. The West Coast upgrade back in the 00’s killed it stone dead. ICWC services started running fast to Lockerbie or Carlisle in order to shave a precious 4-5 minutes from the schedule. XC services were curtailed at Edinburgh and the TPE services that replaced the XC Manchester runs omitted Motherwell for most of the day.

When ICEC was curtailed to Edinburgh, we gained the XC route back, but there is still no regular direct service south on the WCML (other than a couple of cursory morning and afternoon VWC runs, and a token TPE in the evening peak). Ironically, for what was a principle WCML station, it’s now easier to get to EC destinations than WC ones (every 2hrs all day with XC).

I’ve long argued, including with local politicians, that Motherwell should have at least an hourly IC service, alternating between EC and WC destinations. Doesn’t even need to be London bound trains, just a regular, fast, southbound service. I have no objection to changing at Preston. If this was combined with vastly improved parking at Motherwell (only 5 mins from the M74, even in peak traffic), we could have a winner.

I have sent letters off to NLC, SPT, TS and the DfT, and each one blames the other.

 

[Chris Hamilton]

Also, the Holytown Line would need major work to accommodate IC services. It has a relatively low line speed, a 30mph restriction over the Calder Viaduct at Ravenscraig, and would add new conflicting moves through 6 junctions.

 

[InOban]

Your local knowledge infinitely greater than mine. I was only judging from the alignment on a map, and that the existing route has speed limits in the area of Law junction.

 

[route101]

There was a time, in living memory for most, when Motherwell was served by almost all ex-Glasgow, London services, in addition to every CrossCountry service. The West Coast upgrade back in the 00’s killed it stone dead. ICWC services started running fast to Lockerbie or Carlisle in order to shave a precious 4-5 minutes from the schedule. XC services were curtailed at Edinburgh and the TPE services that replaced the XC Manchester runs omitted Motherwell for most of the day.

When ICEC was curtailed to Edinburgh, we gained the XC route back, but there is still no regular direct service south on the WCML (other than a couple of cursory morning and afternoon VWC runs, and a token TPE in the evening peak). Ironically, for what was a principle WCML station, it’s now easier to get to EC destinations than WC ones (every 2hrs all day with XC).

I’ve long argued, including with local politicians, that Motherwell should have at least an hourly IC service, alternating between EC and WC destinations. Doesn’t even need to be London bound trains, just a regular, fast, southbound service. I have no objection to changing at Preston. If this was combined with vastly improved parking at Motherwell (only 5 mins from the M74, even in peak traffic), we could have a winner.

I have sent letters off to NLC, SPT, TS and the DfT, and each one blames the other.

I always thought the TPE trains should stop at Motherwell ,its a more of a stopper anyway .

 

[backontrack]

Dalcross, Robroyston, Kintore, Winchburgh all looking like December 2019 at the earliest.

Auchenback is expected in 2021

East Linton and Reston are somewhere in the 2021 to 2023 range.

Nothing beyond those seven has funding yet. Most likely candidates are probably Cameron Bridge, Levenmouth, Dundee West, Bannockburn, Ravenscraig, Bonnybridge and Oudenard (Bridge of Earn).

Anything beyond those 14 seems unlikely to happen in CP6.

Common factor in virtually all of them is unlocking potential for new housing development.

Newburgh? Abronhill? And also, wouldn't there be stations at both Leven and Methil rather than just one Levenmouth statioon?

Also, I wouldn't put Evanton/Halkirk out of the question, especially if we can get the Lentran Loop and Georgemas Chord into CP6.

 

[gsnedders]

It's a Transport Scotland and Network Rail idea, so it's a cut above a crayonista fantasy.

The Scotland Route Study costing of the alternative Inverkeithing to Glenrothes line (not pursued) assumed a maximum of 4% gradients, which would make it the steepest sustained mainline in the UK (the Lickey Incline is a "mere" 2.65%, though the Mersey Railway Tunnel gets up to 3.7%); by way of comparison, the Köln–Frankfurt high-speed line also has a maximum gradient of 4%. It's not implausible an Inverkeithing to Halbeath would be comparably steep, but with electrification likely coming not that long after its construction even such a gradient wouldn't necessarily stop it.

 

[Altnabreac]

Newburgh? And also, wouldn't there be stations at both Leven and Methil rather than just one Levenmouth statioon?

Also, I wouldn't put Evanton/Halkirk out of the question, especially if we can get the Lentran Loop and Georgemas Chord into CP6.

There’s lots of other maybes but none have any funding. The ones I’ve listed either have Scottish Stations Fund money assigned, council funding committed, Developer funding proposed, City Deal money or an indication from the Scottish Government that they will fund it ( Levenmouth).

Every feasibility I’ve ever seen for Levenmouth has shown a maximum of 2 stations, 1 at Cameron Bridge and 1 by the bus station. Whether the centre of town one will be called Methil, Leven or Levenmouth is uncertain.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Scotland Route Study costing of the alternative Inverkeithing to Glenrothes line (not pursued) assumed a maximum of 4% gradients, which would make it the steepest sustained mainline in the UK (the Lickey Incline is a "mere" 2.65%, though the Mersey Railway Tunnel gets up to 3.7%); by way of comparison, the Köln–Frankfurt high-speed line also has a maximum gradient of 4%. It's not implausible an Inverkeithing to Halbeath would be comparably steep, but with electrification likely coming not that long after its construction even such a gradient wouldn't necessarily stop it.

It's hard to know how steep the line would be without a proper route plan being drawn up. It seems highly plausible that a massive cutting or even a tunnel would be involved to smooth out the gradient over the length of the new route. There would be more flexibility if the Cowdenbeath line is made part of the scheme, since the level difference could continue even if the two lines ran adjacent to one another. While the existing route through Cowdenbeath is on an embankment, the old route was in cutting, so being lower down won't hurt.

Looking back on the Scotland Route Study Appendix, the Dunfermline bypass is pencilled in for 2029-34. That's the time when ScotRail would have replaced its HSTs with bi-modes, the 156s and 158s would be gone and there would be thoughts of replacing the 170s. It seems highly plausible by then that all of the trains which would be using the bypass line would have 25kV AC capability. Wiring up the new line before opening it would ensure it could be as useful as possible, since there's little point in building it if diesel trains would be failing to reach the top. Freight, charters and other arbitrary lower-performance trains would always be routed via Dunfermline or the coast.

 

[och aye]

From a quick NLS Maps survey it seems that a large part of the original route is built on, so would I be correct in assuming that any link would be mostly new-build?

Here's an article and map link with the proposed lines:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2014/07/railway-reintroduction-one-step-closer/

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=55.88959687590192,-3.157088749999957&z=12

The red line is the one being recommended by the council.

Here's a link to the full analysis:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2016/04/full-analysis-penicuik-railway-studies/

 

[najaB]

The red line is the one being recommended by the council.

That's an adaptation of the old route, probably to avoid the built-on areas.

 

[railjock]

Here's an article and map link with the proposed lines:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2014/07/railway-reintroduction-one-step-closer/

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1tlcGeEZjPdtnA0i4OnSh-ZmYjWo&ll=55.88959687590192,-3.157088749999957&z=12

The red line is the one being recommended by the council.

Here's a link to the full analysis:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2016/04/full-analysis-penicuik-railway-studies/

Hard to see any heavy rail route being viable now given geography and development over the original two routes. The ‘preferred’ red route terminates at Pomathorn which doesn’t seem much use either.

 

[DuncanS]

As someone who lives in Linlithgow, that’s pretty disappointing that we’re going to lose direct trains to Stirling and have them replaced by a fairly pointless service. Will this be the case for Edinburgh Park too?

Also, if the Winchburgh station was to be built between the Almond Chord and Winchburgh Jn, then it wouldn’t really be worth building at all. That’s a fair bit out of Winchburgh, especially the new town centre.

You're telling me, Camelon is my local station and the prospect of changing to get to Polmont or Linlithgow seems odd.

I suspect we'll go to 1tph from Stirling and then to cover that they'll put in one Edinburgh tph via Cumbernauld when all of this is completed.

 

[DuncanS]

Anyway in other news,

cost for Aberdeen to Ellon, £270 million to £380 millon

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...lion-for-rail-service-from-ellon-to-aberdeen/

 

[clc]

Anyway in other news,

cost for Aberdeen to Ellon, £270 million to £380 millon

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...lion-for-rail-service-from-ellon-to-aberdeen/

From the article: “However, given the infrastructure investment required, there would be significant concerns over the value for money and affordability of each option, with capital costs likely to outweigh the benefits derived, and operating subsidies required from opening year.”

Doesn’t sound like a great business case.

 

[route:oxford]

Doesn’t sound like a great business case.

It's not about it being a business case.

It's about buying votes - don't forget there'll be an independence announcement on St Andrew's day this year.

 

[Starmill]

other than a couple of cursory morning and afternoon VWC runs, and a token TPE in the evening peak

It is still thin I agree but TransPennine have added an additional service recently which calls at Motherwell - the 1858 departure from Manchester Airport sets down at Motherwell at 2214. Of course, VT also removed a Motherwell call on a Northbound train in the early afternoon.

The 0801 from Motherwell, which does pick up there (in addition to Lockerbie and Carstairs) is also a TransPennine service and has been running for many years.

A small improvement might be for the 0906 or 1110 from Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport to call at Motherwell, possibly as a pick up only, providing a Southbound that is not at the crack of dawn.

 

[47271]

Anyway in other news,

cost for Aberdeen to Ellon, £270 million to £380 millon

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp...lion-for-rail-service-from-ellon-to-aberdeen/

There's quite a bit on this from early November on this thread already - half a dozen or so posts starting from #951. The main feature at the time was an unfavourable, and I thought unfair, cost comparison with relatively minor improvements to the A90. At the time it looked to me like their minds were made up that the railway isn't going to happen.

 

[47271]

It's not about it being a business case.

It's about buying votes - don't forget there'll be an independence announcement on St Andrew's day this year.

Possibly a misreading of the current politics of NE Scotland - that'll be an awful lot of born again Tories with big fat cars and no interest in public transport that they'll be looking to buy off with the scheme. If it's votes they're looking for they'll dual the A90 to Peterhead and Fraserburgh.

 

[railjock]

Here's an article and map link with the proposed lines:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2014/07/railway-reintroduction-one-step-closer/

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1tlcGeEZjPdtnA0i4OnSh-ZmYjWo&ll=55.88959687590192,-3.157088749999957&z=12

The red line is the one being recommended by the council.

Here's a link to the full analysis:

http://www.penicuikcuckoo.co.uk/2016/04/full-analysis-penicuik-railway-studies/

Interesting simulation of one of the proposed routes.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Why isn't it being built as an electric railway? Also just a parkway station out in a field vaguely near the town? Pretty uninspiring stuff, lovely as it would be to re-connect Penicuik to the network.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Why isn't it being built as an electric railway? Also just a parkway station out in a field vaguely near the town? Pretty uninspiring stuff, lovely as it would be to re-connect Penicuik to the network.

The Borders Railway wasn't built as an electric railway to save money. At 2tph, the case for electrification isn't particularly strong. Until Fife is wired up, there will be diesel trains suitable for the Borders service in and around Edinburgh, so it's not any great operational inconvenience.

This line, if built, might be the same. It just depends on whether electrification would make the scheme more viable than not electrifying it.

 

[backontrack]

Also: surely any Penicuik line should serve Loanhead?

 

[najaB]

It just depends on whether electrification would make the scheme more viable than not electrifying it.

I can't see how it would increase the viability if the Borders railway isn't electrified since, as you say, there will be diesel trains in the area.

 

[snowball]

Why isn't it being built as an electric railway?

Because nobody has volunteered to bay the tens of millions of pounds to electrify it.

Also just a parkway station out in a field vaguely near the town? Pretty uninspiring stuff, lovely as it would be to re-connect Penicuik to the network.

Because nobody has volunteered to have their houses knocked down.

 

[JohnR]

Also: surely any Penicuik line should serve Loanhead?

One of the routes the study looked at included going via Loanhead.

 

[Class 170101]

Why isn't it being built as an electric railway? Also just a parkway station out in a field vaguely near the town? Pretty uninspiring stuff, lovely as it would be to re-connect Penicuik to the network.

It also seemed to pass a rather large area of housing and ignore it. (Around 1:30)

 

[takno]

It also seemed to pass a rather large area of housing and ignore it. (Around 1:30)

I understand the value of park and rides, but this does seem to go to a lot of trouble of pass quite close to hundreds of houses and a significant university campus whilst going non-stop from car park to car park. I can't see why it has to *only* be a railhead.

 

[Altnabreac]

One of the routes the study looked at included going via Loanhead.

My view is that the last study put too much emphasis on Penicuik rather than finding the most viable routes that best serve Midlothian in general.

I think something like Shawfair, Sherifhall P&R, Gilmerton, Loanhead, Roslin Institute, Roslin, Gowkley Moss for Penicuik, Easter Bush could do excellent business. Lots or reverse commuting, serves the major Midlothian employers better but with Park and Rides and bus connections for Penicuik itself.

Getting to central Penicuik is impossible at a reasonable financial and political cost so think differently instead.

 

[railjock]

My view is that the last study put too much emphasis on Penicuik rather than finding the most viable routes that best serve Midlothian in general.

I think something like Shawfair, Sherifhall P&R, Gilmerton, Loanhead, Roslin Institute, Roslin, Gowkley Moss for Penicuik, Easter Bush could do excellent business. Lots or reverse commuting, serves the major Midlothian employers better but with Park and Rides and bus connections for Penicuik itself.

Getting to central Penicuik is impossible at a reasonable financial and political cost so think differently instead.

I think the original routes via gimerton/loanhead/roslin or bonnyrigg/rosewell are the only viable ones that would serve midlothian communities.

 

[385001]

Apologies if this is already somewhere else but I noticed that the Transport Minister was at a presentation at Holyrood today about possible re-opening of Beattock Station.

Is this a realistic re-opening?

https://twitter.com/beattockstation/status/958776658831593473

Re-open Beattock Station presentation today at Holyrood
The young people’s views on developing access via Beattock Station to major cities and proposed opportunities for education and vocations were presented to Hamza Yousaf MSP Transport Minister. They had researched intensify the issues that may affect their future opportunities should they not have access to effective transport network. They prepared a power point presentation for the meeting which was professionally presented and well received by the Minister and his colleagues The young people were encouraged to answer questions posed by the Minister and where needed any additional points where made by the action group members present - but the main points made were routed in the young people’s perceived needs through the excellent and professional presentation they made.