Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by och aye, 21 Nov 2014.

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  1. gsnedders

    gsnedders Established Member

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    I thought there was structures work needed there?
     
  2. alangla

    alangla Member

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    A canal aqueduct! If that’s low hanging fruit then it’s pretty rotten. For me, Muirhouse to Busby jct should be the first priority, then onwards to either or both of EK or Killie. Once at Kilmarnock, extend to Barassie.

    Alternatively, extend from Ayr to Girvan and finally build Ayr South Parkway station next to the bypass.
     
  3. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    As I understand it there's not much benefit to doing it, because the Anniesland shuttles are worked by West Highland diesel stock as an infill turn. You'd wind up running diesels under the wires or using stock inefficiently.
     
  4. d9009alycidon

    d9009alycidon Member

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    If the station was slightly further south then it could serve the otherwise remote Ayr Hospital, with a short link road to the bypass to car parking
     
  5. Red Onion

    Red Onion Member

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    It was completely pie in the sky. There’s no easy route to the airport with all the development, it could have possibly been achieved before the construction of the business park and the car hire centre but all that has eaten up any useful route.

    As for the exhibition centre, it’s not a far walk from the line at Stoneywood. A simple station there, even if only open for events, would surely work better.

    There’s better rail options that money can go towards in the city including local stations at Bucksburn, Kittybrewster and Cove.

    The city council don’t seem the greatest when it comes to public transport, all three park and ride sites are failures along with the general bus network not doing well.
     
  6. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Being as both the Class 156s and 158s will need to be replaced at some point in the near future (the low numbered ones date from 1987 and 1989 respectively), there could be some prep work done in small stages to get the line ready for wires. This would obviously also include Maryhill Park Junction - Westerton (also useful for diversion of Milngavie trains to Queen Street High Level when Sunday engineering works closes the route through Partick) and it would also be useful to have a short 3 mile tram wire extension from Craigendoran Junction to Helensburgh Upper being as the train switches to and from the Radio Electronic Token Block signalling system. This would enable a new fleet of bimodes to be used for the West Highlands.
     
  7. gingertom

    gingertom Member

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    pretty straightforward and quick to dangle the wires but if there's a new feeder station needed (near the wind farm near Bowshank tunnel?) that will take some time. Improved journey times would be at the mercy of the passing loops and further infrastructure work to increase the double track sections could be essential to ensure a robust timetable. Both are a considerable cost.
     
  8. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    But wouldn't all this low hanging fruit infringe the new standards on clearances?
     
  9. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Funny how Norway can construct tunnels in much deeper water though....
     
  10. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It's not the absolute depth that matters, it's the slope down to that depth.

    The North Channel is both narrow and deep, which isn't a good combination.
     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2019
  11. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Yes. And?
     
  12. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    It means an excessively long (read "expensive") tunnel.
     
  13. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    I know. I am not proposing one. All I am saying is that depth isn't an issue. It will never happen in the UK but other countries have done this already.
     
  14. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    Nope, just another fantasy dream scheme.

    A bus link connecting Dyce, Dyce Railway Station, TECA, Aberdeen Airport & Kirkhill Industrial Estate would be far more viable and work better. FirstBus Aberdeen are away to launch a new route in two weeks time which will run on a 15 minute frequency providing most of those links. This covers the bulk of the market that a rail link would, albeit there's no early morning, evening or Sunday service.
     
  15. RLBH

    RLBH Member

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    Technically, building the tunnel would be the easy part. The problem would be the length.

    To get under Beaufort's Dyke and back up to sea level (somewhere in the region of 325 metres of descent/climb) with a reasonable gradient of 1:100, you'd need a tunnel perhaps 65km long, 30% longer than the Channel Tunnel. So figure on construction costs being about £23 billion, with any connecting works at either end being extra.

    The Norwegian fjord tunnels are all road tunnels. You can easily get a road vehicle up a hill that a train couldn't even think about. Unfortunately, a 21km undersea road tunnel would also suffocate all the drivers - the Rogaland Fixed Link will be this kind of length (and 380 metres deep!) but there's a convenient island half way along where ventilation can be provided.
     
  16. d9009alycidon

    d9009alycidon Member

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    Not only do you have the issue of the depth of the water, but the coastline in the vicinity of Portpatrick is high cliffs with the ground sloping higher as you go inland. The original station was at the back of the town and had a steeply sloping branch down to the harbour, which didn't last long before everyone agreed that Stranraer was the best option for the port. Even the branch to the town had a fierce climb up to Colfin, I have walked the old line and it was an impressive piece of civil engineering. If anyone was serious about a tunnel they would need to start boring at Stranraer.
    All this at the moment is frankly moot, there are discussions on other forums about the viability of the line to Stranrear and it is generally though that if any route in Scotland was under threat it would be this one (beyond Girvan). The harbour station no longer has any ferry connections and is badly placed for the people of Stranraer, patronage is poor as the buses offer a competitive service, the fastest bus is about twenty minutes longer than the train but from Ayr to Stranraer but goes from town centre to town centre
     
  17. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    EK and Killie at once . Possible with new stock . D
     
  18. clc

    clc Established Member

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    How many trains would call at Gateway in this scenario? I had my first visit to Gateway today and it was eerily quiet with not a single person in the large ticket hall.
     
  19. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    I'd expect there to be an additional 4tph at Edinburgh Gateway if all trains from Linlithgow direction went on Almond Chord. 2tph from Stirling and 2tph from Glasgow.

    If the Stirling trains continues to run via Edinburgh Park then perhaps only an extra 2tph calling at Edinburgh Gateway.
     
  20. takno

    takno Established Member

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    The airport isn't all that busy on Sundays, and Gogarburn and the Edinburgh park area are virtually deserted. You wouldn't expect a new railway station that serves them via a not-particularly regular service to be that busy would you?
     
  21. JLUK144

    JLUK144 Member

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    There’s also the more regular tram service.
     
  22. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    Indeed, outside of events at Murrayfield and the weekday peak, Edinburgh Gateway is currently a fairly quiet station. But if you are there at 8am on a weekday it does a reasonable trade.
     
  23. railjock

    railjock Member

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    Lots of development planned around it as well now that the old runway has been closed.
     
  24. route:oxford

    route:oxford On Moderation

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    You're having a laugh. It's mobbed on Sundays. I'm in the departure lounge on a Sunday at least 20-25 times a year, and it's usually absolutely rammed.
     
  25. clc

    clc Established Member

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    A decent increase in frequency then. And central Glasgow would have a reliable sub 60 minute journey time to Edinburgh Airport and its growing global connections.
     
  26. Tormod

    Tormod Member

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    Yeah, for all that oil they've nothing to show. Dundee otoh with a shiny new station and a good selection of stations to Arbroath seem to be doing reasonably well.
     
  27. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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  28. alangla

    alangla Member

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  29. snookertam

    snookertam Member

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    I think there are already multiple signal sections on the bridge, not sure you could fit any more in without having an effect on line speed, which is already restricted.

    Some day (not necessarily soon) the nettle may need to be grasped regarding a new link across the water. It will be very expensive though.
     
  30. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Earlier proposals for the Queensferry Crossing were for a multi-modal bridge or tunnel. A missed opportunity
     
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