Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

[reddragon]

Wow, realism from the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47947775

government is mulling a plan to commit to net zero by 2050[/URL].

Consider the changes that would be needed to get to net zero in just six years.

Gas boilers across the UK would have to be replaced with electricity, and you'd need to massively ramp up renewable energy, on a scale not yet seen, to meet this extra demand.

Researchers at Zero Carbon Britain suggested that if the UK wanted to get to net zero by 2030, Britain would need about 130,000 extra wind turbines mostly off shore. This would take up an area twice the size of Wales.

There would also have to be significant dietary changes, with people cutting back on meat and dairy.

 

[broadgage]

Ha, 4 tube lines down due to signal failures! No glue needed except maybe for the signalling system!

Are we satisfied that these are "natural" failures ? I can think of several ways in which such failures could be caused deliberately.

 

[duncanp]

Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.

One of the issues I have with these protesters is that they say the "..government must act now..."

But with climate change, surely it is up to each individual to do their bit.

For example, and to link up with another thread on this forum, how many people would be prepared to swap a two week holiday on the Spanish Costas or Greek Islands for a fortnight in Great Yarmouth. (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-do-you-think-of-great-yarmouth.181070/page-2#post-3964327) Not many, I suspect. You could tax airline fuel to discourage people from flying, but that would lead to complaints that rich people would still be able to fly, whereas poorer people are excluded.

It is also very easy to tell other people how to cut their carbon footprint when doing so would have no effect on your own life, ie:-

• If you don't have any children, it is easy to say "..you should use reusable nappies instead of disposable ones.."
• If you live in a city with adequate public transport, it is easy to say ".. you should use a car less, as they are a major cause of greenhouse gas emissions...". But what if you live in an area with little or no public transport?
• If you are a vegan or vegetarian, it is easy to say "...the production of meat is harmful to the planet...". But what causes more pollution, the transportation of fruit and vegetables from the other side of the world, in order that you can have strawberries in January, or meat that is produced locally using organic farming methods?

I would like all these protesters to list all the sacrifices that they have made, or will make in the future, to reduce their carbon footprint. But I fear that it is more likely that Notre Dame cathedral will be fully rebuilt before we get all the answers.

 

[reddragon]

One of the issues I have with these protesters is that they say the "..government must act now..."

But with climate change, surely it is up to each individual to do their bit.

For example, and to link up with another thread on this forum, how many people would be prepared to swap a two week holiday on the Spanish Costas or Greek Islands for a fortnight in Great Yarmouth. (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-do-you-think-of-great-yarmouth.181070/page-2#post-3964327) Not many, I suspect. You could tax airline fuel to discourage people from flying, but that would lead to complaints that rich people would still be able to fly, whereas poorer people are excluded.

It is also very easy to tell other people how to cut their carbon footprint when doing so would have no effect on your own life, ie:-

• If you don't have any children, it is easy to say "..you should use reusable nappies instead of disposable ones.."
• If you live in a city with adequate public transport, it is easy to say ".. you should use a car less, as they are a major cause of greenhouse gas emissions...". But what if you live in an area with little or no public transport?
• If you are a vegan or vegetarian, it is easy to say "...the production of meat is harmful to the planet...". But what causes more pollution, the transportation of fruit and vegetables from the other side of the world, in order that you can have strawberries in January, or meat that is produced locally using organic farming methods?

I would like all these protesters to list all the sacrifices that they have made, or will make in the future, to reduce their carbon footprint. But I fear that it is more likely that Notre Dame cathedral will be fully rebuilt before we get all the answers.

Very well said!

 

[dgl]

We'd probably need a new fleet of nuclear reactors as well to cope for the times when there is no sun or wind (or as in some cases last year to much sun), but a lot of climate campaigners have some idea that solar and wind are the only options (despite turbines being bird blenders and ugly, and solar requiring (like wind) a huge amount of land to get anywhere near the same output as a normal power station) and that nuclear is simply not safe when there has only been 4 major nuclear disasters and all of them have been fout to be due to either or a combination of design flaws and lack of training.

 

[nuts & bolts]

They’re not anti-public transport. Reading their statements on their website they compare it to shouting “fire” at the occupants of a burning house; a disruptive act designed to raise awareness of an imminent catastrophe.

This was quoted by the invited Greta Thunberg at the European Unions climate committee yesterday.

Please view her speech, for a 16 year old girl it’s a moving commentary.

Don’t forget, we’ll have the Anti Capitalists May Day demos shortly!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I was expecting, well hoping maybe to read some balanced debate this morning!

Your house is on fire, it is burning. If you continue to do nothing or it will burn down.

The last 10 years were the hottest ever, as were the last 3. Last year was the hottest on record and this year is hotter. The effects are catastrophic for all of us and are soon to become irreversible.

Extreme weather events that used to happen every so often now occur regularly and will get far worse. They cost significantly more than some protesting. Lines such as Conwy Valley will be lost forever.

Sea levels are rising, no longer by fractions of a millimetre per year, but by millimetres and soon to be centimetres per year. Ice is melting at 10 times the predicted level from above and underneath. The railway trough Dawlish has a finite life before it is lost in not centuries but decades.

School children are striking on Fridays to tell you, Extinction Rebellion have successfully got everyone talking. They are backed by Scientists, Climate experts, Academics and Engineers. These people are very well informed and very well-funded. They will not stop until you listen and act.

Government and fossil businesses are not telling the truth. They are lying to you, in cahoots with some of the press. Do not be fooled. Large Investors are pulling out of fossil fuel investments as fast as they can, and they know to well the cost if they do not switch their funds!

The UK Government pay 1000’s of times as much subsidy into fossil fuels than renewables, have banned on shore wind, cut grants and support. The Oil industry spends £100’s of millions per year trying to stop electrification and renewables by buying up & stopping ideas and spreading fake information to you all. Get real! They are not acting; they are dragging their feet and blocking progress a lot by pushing for a date well after almost every other country on planet earth. UK says no fossil transport from 2040. The rest of the world has 2025-2030 as a date.

I have switched to renewable energy for heat & power and an electric car. It has not come at a cost to me, it has saved me money as it is cheaper in so many ways.

You can all switch to save the planet and to save money, if not the planet maybe some railway line you hold dear.

Instead of challenging me or these protesters, challenge yourselves to do something and sooner than later!

Jeez, what a load of hysterical nonsense! Perhaps you'd feel more at home posting on the David Icke forum rather than this one?

The way I see it, the earth has been around for billions of years yet climate records only date back to 1880, just over a hundred years. So to conclude that manmade climate change is real based on data covering about 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the planet's existence is about as logical as guessing the result of a football match by watching half a second of the action! Yes, it's possible that the earth may be warming up and that mankind might be responsible but you'd need many more years of data before you could state that with absolute certainty.

But to get back on topic, I suspect the eco-nutters protesting are the same rent-a-mob who did that silly Occupy stunt a few years back that also achieved bugger all. If they really want to reduce people's carbon emissions, why not close down the motorways rather than disrupt public transport?

 

[reddragon]

(despite turbines being bird blenders and ugly, .

Wind turbines don't make the list of top causes of bird deaths! Cats; Vehicles; hunting; pesticides; habitat loss; farming; forestry; tall buildings; communication towers; normal windows of houses cover 99.99% of deaths

 

[LOL The Irony]

Disappointing reaction from this forum … "idiots" .."great unwashed" … "Luddites" … "extremists" … "absurd" ….

Doesn't anyone else read the facts and worry about what to do about this issue? I have complete sympathy with what they are trying to achieve, even if this doesn't seem to be the right way to go about it.

We're not disagreeing with the cause, we're disagreeing with their actions.

 

[reddragon]

We're not disagreeing with the cause, we're disagreeing with their actions.

I do not agree with these actions either, just the cause. The M25 would have been a better target or airports

 

[jon0844]

The M25 doesn't need help to bring London to a halt!

 

[PHILIPE]

Do they have no thought or consideration for the inconvenience that are causing to their fellow citizens. Just a selfish lot.

 

[edwin_m]

They seem to have missed the fact that with our electoral and political system the opinion of the general public has very little influence over the actions of government. While I have considerable sympathy with the cause and the relative lack of action on climate change worldwide, I agree with most postings here that disrupting public transport is counter-productive. It just inconveniences the majority who have no power to change anything, and allows the minority with the power to carry on driving around London.

 

[John Griffiths]

Blocking motorways would disrupt supplies of food and other goods and quite possibly impact on more people than disrupting city centre public transport would.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Jeez, what a load of hysterical nonsense! Perhaps you'd feel more at home posting on the David Icke forum rather than this one?

The way I see it, the earth has been around for billions of years yet climate records only date back to 1880, just over a hundred years. So to conclude that manmade climate change is real based on data covering about 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the planet's existence is about as logical as guessing the result of a football match by watching half a second of the action! Yes, it's possible that the earth may be warming up and that mankind might be responsible but you'd need many more years of data before you could state that with absolute certainty.

I kinda agree that reddragon's post was not realistic, but it's also pretty clear from what you've written that you don't understand the science. While it's true that day-to-day detailed climate records only go back to the 19th century, there is a huge amount of indirect evidence about climate dating back a lot longer -which has allowed scientists to figure out a lot about the climate going back a lot further. Maybe a read of some of the stuff put out by genuine scientific organisations - the kind of groups who do actually no what they are talking about - would convince you that it is virtually certain that mankind - and in particular fossil fuel burning - is responsible for what is turning out to be the quickest and most severe sudden change in climate that the Earth has experienced for millions of years. Man-made climate change is real and very severe: There's no might about it.

These links might be a good start (and note that they are all articles by scientific, not political, groups).
Royal Society
NASA
National Geographic

Oh, and if you think that going back to 1880 amounts to, "0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the planet's existence" then you really need to get a decent education in basic maths. 130ish years is a small proportion of the Earths' history, but not that small.

 

[theironroad]

I'm going to need to order some more popcorn soon as the 'stamp down on them brigade' froth away at the mouth on here.

Unfortunately direct action is often a way of getting change, though with something as long term as climate change I do wonder how effective these protests will be as I can't see this government standing up to big business and using policy to effect change.

While I don't subscribe to the theory that the world will implode in 12 years or whatever if we don't act today, it is clear climate change is a real issue that is going to effect people globally in different ways and to deny it is really sticking your head in the sand.

Compared to many countries, people in the UK don't protest and take action vociferously enough and just tut and moan about stuff but don't try to change it.

What I don't want to see is anyone get hurt or killed because they took a stupid risk on rail or tubes lines.

 

[Carlisle]

Doesn't anyone else read the facts and worry about what to do about this issue? I have complete sympathy with what they are trying to achieve, even if this doesn't seem to be the right way to go about it.

And what’s next after they’ve won, abolished virtually all livestock, ordered everyone to go vegan? voluntary euthanasia to combat excessive pollution caused by overpopulation?

 

[gavin]

Climate change protesters are on top of a DLR train at Canary Wharf

 

[Kite159]

If they want to protest about saving the environment, maybe they should travel (by sailing ship, after-all they can't fly) to China or other countries who produce a lot more CO2 than the UK.

If the UK was to suddenly disappear from the world, there will be a small drop in CO2, however within a couple years the levels will be back up due to all those new coal burning stations in China.

 

[reddragon]

If the UK was to suddenly disappear from the world, there will be a small drop in CO2, however within a couple years the levels will be back up due to all those new coal burning stations in China.

Work has stopped as investors have pulled out in most cases. Solar PV is booming though and 450,000 electric buses help too!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Picture of them on top of the train from sky
https://news.sky.com/story/extincti...usinesses-12m-as-more-action-planned-11696014

 

[reddragon]

Climate change protesters are on top of a DLR train at Canary Wharf

TfL update is quite funny!

Docklands Light Railway: Minor delays between Bank and Lewisham due to a customer incident at Canary Wharf. GOOD SERVICE on other DLR routes.

 

[Peter C]

Picture of them on top of the train from sky
https://news.sky.com/story/extincti...usinesses-12m-as-more-action-planned-11696014

Good lord. Woods cannot describe how stupid that is.

Have they told TfL that they will be standing on top of a computer-controlled train? If TfL or a member of DLR staff don't do anything quick enough*, that train will be heading off, probably into some tunnel somewhere. Or worse, they'd fall off.

*assuming that they are still there.

Also, the DLR, Tube, Overground, and Trams are... yes, you guessed it... electric! What pollution do they make? None.

-Peter

 

[LOL The Irony]

Good lord. Woods cannot describe how stupid that is.

Have they told TfL that they will be standing on top of a computer-controlled train? If TfL or a member of DLR staff don't do anything quick enough*, that train will be heading off, probably into some tunnel somewhere. Or worse, they'd fall off.

If it was at some small station with no staff, they would've been seriously injured or killed.

 

[Peter C]

If it was at some small station with no staff, they would've been seriously injured or killed.

Yes. And, knowing today's world, it would be TfL's fault, not theirs.

-Peter


EDIT: It happened at Canary Wharf, so it's a fairly large station.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

How did they even get on the roof?

 

[Kite159]

If it was at some small station with no staff, they would've been seriously injured or killed.

You would hope the onboard member of staff would have noticed some idiots climbing on the roof before they closed the doors.

 

[reddragon]

BBC states that "The group targeted the DLR after it changed its mind about disrupting the Tube network on Wednesday."

Perhaps they listened?

 

[Peter C]

How did they even get on the roof?

Fair point. The DLR trains don't have places where you could put your feet. Unless they climbed up on to the roof by first climbing in between the units.

-Peter

 

[Peter C]

You would hope the onboard member of staff would have noticed some idiots climbing on the roof before they closed the doors.

I think I saw a member of the BTP there in one photo, so hopefully they can help.

-Peter