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Far-right protests

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WelshBluebird

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Not sure that the colour of the people is the issue - this is an issue of immigration - of numbers.
So why the assumption that the Southport murderer must have been a Muslim asylum seeker? Why the attacks on mosques? Why thr attacks on and abuse of non white people as part of these riots whilst white immigrants are ignored?
 
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SuspectUsual

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Unfortunately far right groups are often able to read the mood of any given area through their hooligan crew networks, so they know where and when to light the fires. But this will all be coming because people are increasingly concerned or angry.

It seems - unless I’m missing something - that none of these fires have been lit in constituencies with Reform MPs. Odd that
 

jon0844

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So why the assumption that the Southport murderer must have been a Muslim asylum seeker? Why the attacks on mosques? Why thr attacks on and abuse of non white people as part of these riots whilst white immigrants are ignored?

I don't remember the hatred against white Europeans from Poland, France, Germany, Scandinavia etc coming here and working. Funny how even then it was about the non-whites, and the reason Farage recreated the Nazi poster showing only brown people.
 

najaB

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I find some of the ways that people are trying to insert Nigel Farage as prime villain to be quite laughable really. I'm no fan of Farage or reform but the idea that they have caused these riots is a bit silly. I hope Farage and reform are taking notes of some of the tweets from the more well known people throwing accusations at them, and wouldn't be surprised to see some payouts following.
I don't think Farage bears any responsibility for triggering the riot, however he is the leader of Reform and many of their members are definitely involved. So he does bear some responsibility for not trying to settle things down once it all started kicking off.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I don't remember the hatred against white Europeans from Poland, France, Germany, Scandinavia etc coming here and working. Funny how even then it was about the non-whites, and the reason Farage recreated the Nazi poster showing only brown people.
Perhaps because they seem to integrate into society better? Possibly?
 

GRALISTAIR

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Can you back that up with some evidence or examples please?
I will try yes. But please note I did use words such as “perhaps “ “seem” and “possibly “ so I was not being dogmatic. Also, to save me going on a wild goose chase and doing loads of research for you, I am assume you will only accept citations from peer- reviewed academic journals ( which I do have access to via Springer as I am an editor for them? )
 

Bantamzen

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could you set out how?
By clicking their heels together three times and saying "there's no place like home" of course.....

I know people FEEL that way but i don't believe it or think it is an excuse for what has been going on. To further the discussion: what heritage do these people being done away with?
You don't think it's an excuse, they may feel differently for a whole spectrum of reasons. They might believe that immigrants get preferential treatment, or that they get better jobs and homes. Or they may believe that white people are getting blamed for the world's problems, that white people are being "erased", or that being English is something to be ashamed of. Social media is full of content that could make people any or all of these things, plus much more.

Socio-economically, places like Mansfield and Clacton are similar to Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Rotherham etc
And? There a plenty of other places where there hasn't been any unrest that don't have any Reform MPs.
 

DarloRich

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By clicking their heels together three times and saying "there's no place like home" of course.....
i don't understand

You don't think it's an excuse, they may feel differently for a whole spectrum of reasons. They might believe that immigrants get preferential treatment, or that they get better jobs and homes. Or they may believe that white people are getting blamed for the world's problems, that white people are being "erased", or that being English is something to be ashamed of. Social media is full of content that could make people any or all of these things, plus much more.
but none of that is true. That's why it isn't an excuse. Even if a tiny bit were true it would still not be an excuse to burn down a library !
 

ChrisC

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Socio-economically, places like Mansfield and Clacton are similar to Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Rotherham etc
Perhaps I’ve missed something but why mention Mansfield alongside Clacton. Mansfield doesn’t have a Reform MP. Mansfield was a Labour gain from the Conservatives. The conservatives still came second by quite a margin over third placed Reform.
 

najaB

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Which ones?
Okay, you're correct. I should have said "supporters" rather than "members".

As to members who are involved (by fanning the flames), see what Rupert Lowe (on of their MPs) has been saying since the riots started:

“Since 1997, millions of legal and illegal migrants have come into the country”, he said.

“People who come here need to respect the fact we are a Christian country with our own laws and history.

“I’m afraid a lot of them aren’t integrating into our society. They don’t like our society and what we stand for.

“If people are going to come here, they are going to need to integrate with us. Police have to deal with people fairly and equally, otherwise we are heading for a systemic problem and Keir Starmer won’t be in power for long if that happens.”
 

Tetchytyke

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but none of that is true. That's why it isn't an excuse
It is interesting comparing reactions between these riots and the riot in Leeds. The latter had lots of people talking about “third world mentality”, the former seems to be all about the “legitimate concerns” of thugs.

We see that very clearly from Reform UK Limited’s MPs. In Harehills we were importing thuggery but in Southport and Sunderland people have legitimate grievances. Apparently.

Nigel Farage on Harehills:
“The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds,” he wrote on X within hours: “Don’t say I didn’t warn you”.

Interesting to contrast that with the comments from Rupert Lowe, quoted above.
 

DarloRich

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It is interesting comparing reactions between these riots and the riot in Leeds. The latter had lots of people talking about “third world mentality”, the former seems to be all about the “legitimate concerns” of thugs.
same as anyone who fights with the police deserves to be kicked in the head vibes after the Manchester airport issues.

We see that very clearly from Reform UK Limited’s MPs. In Harehills we were importing thuggery but in Southport and Sunderland people have legitimate grievances. Apparently.
But apparently according to those above Farage has no culpability in these riots
 

GardenRail

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Edit: I've just checked Booking.com and find that the Holiday Inn, Rotherham, which has just been ransacked, is advertising rooms at £108 per night. (Who on Earth takes their holidays in Rotherham?)
This particular Holiday Inn Express has been shut to the public for nearly 2 years, as are a lot of hotels in the deprived towns of Yorkshire, particularly West and South Yorkshire, for the very same reason. It doesn't seem to be an issue in the tourism spots, and well to do towns though. York, Whitby, Beverley, Wetherby, Tadcaster, Hebden, Skipton.... you wouldn't know there was any mounting tension. Wakefield however, there's at least 4 hotels closed to the public. A friend of mine had his contract terminated as an employee because of closing to the public. Anyway...you've looked at the wrong hotel. Whilst the media keeps saying Rotherham, it's actually in Manvers. Quite a way out of Rotherham. Nowhere near the actual town of Rotherham. In the area of Thurnsco, Goldthhorpe, Bolton on Dearn etc.
Screenshot_20240804-205054.png
 
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JamesT

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I don't remember the hatred against white Europeans from Poland, France, Germany, Scandinavia etc coming here and working. Funny how even then it was about the non-whites, and the reason Farage recreated the Nazi poster showing only brown people.
Really? The expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe was one of the major factors for Brexit.
 

RT4038

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So why the assumption that the Southport murderer must have been a Muslim asylum seeker? Why the attacks on mosques? Why thr attacks on and abuse of non white people as part of these riots whilst white immigrants are ignored?
Perhaps because of being Muslims, and/or have come to the country without invitation? Is there evidence that white immigrants have been deliberately ignored? (except restricting them by voting Brexit, presumably?). But of course they have got to be painted as racists.

but none of that is true.
It don't think that can be reasonably said. It may or may not be true, depending on all sorts of factors and views of fairness ( for instance, does everybody born here get priority for employment, housing, health care etc over immigrants?).

Even if a tiny bit were true
which it probably is (at least on some measure)

it would still not be an excuse to burn down a library !
Correct.
 

jon0844

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Really? The expansion of the EU into Eastern Europe was one of the major factors for Brexit.

There were people upset that Poles came here and did electrical work, plumbing etc, for less - but there was never the same level of hatred. As someone has already suggested above, and is seeking to provide examples and evidence, it is apparently because some people don't want to integrate like others do/did.
 

SuspectUsual

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Perhaps I’ve missed something but why mention Mansfield alongside Clacton. Mansfield doesn’t have a Reform MP. Mansfield was a Labour gain from the Conservatives. The conservatives still came second by quite a margin over third placed Reform.

Because its a better-known town on the doorstep of Lee Anderson's constituency
 

renegademaster

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Okay, you're correct. I should have said "supporters" rather than "members".

As to members who are involved (by fanning the flames), see what Rupert Lowe (on of their MPs) has been saying since the riots started:


If that relatively mild criticism is to blame for the riots, Ed Milliband is responsible for putting promises to restrict migration in his manifesto.
 

DarloRich

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It don't think that can be reasonably said. It may or may not be true, depending on all sorts of factors and views of fairness ( for instance, does everybody born here get priority for employment, housing, health care etc over immigrants?).
I would say there is equality of opportunity. What there is not is equality of is exploitation of that opportunity. That failure, however, is not down to the colour of your skin or the deity you worship. It is down to the width of your parents wallet!

( removing the top public schools from this point obviously - they have much ore opportunity than anyone else)

EDIT - I will say again: Whether or not this is true the point remains that this does not excuse the outrageous criminal behaviour we have seen this weekend
 

King Lazy

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One thing I don’t think is helpful is the lack of an unequivocal early statement about the attacker NOT being a Muslim. I’m sure our police and security services will know everything about him by now.

So many of the social media stirrers seem to have jumped on the original false name and the accusation that he was a muslim. I myself have pointed out to people they were posting a false name and would look stupid. The judge has put that to bed now with the release of the name but I still feel a strong statement refuting the allegations regarding his faith is also needed.

Perhaps there has been one that I haven’t seen but I haven’t clearly read or seen a trusted source (PM, MP, Chief Constable of Merseyside, BBC, Sky TV, Guardian/Times etc) quoted with an clear statement which suggests even if made it has not been adequately circulated to remove the social media lies.

Logically he is not muslim, but I believe a clear statement. “the suspects name is......he is not of the muslim faith” could’ve helped.

Instead we merely had the implication that he is a Welshman.

Legally, technically and correctly he is, but surely our leaders must know that their wording will be seized on by those looking for an excuse to fight. These people will seize on anything and form a conspiracy around it.

Genuinely, if anyone can point me to a trusted source stating unequivocally that he is not a Muslim I’d like to see it because if I haven’t seen one neither will many others.

And I think our leaders could’ve calmed a lot of tension by telling the truth clearly. After all, that is what we expect of them.

All I’ve seen are statements such as ‘disorder escalated by claims the attacker is a muslim’.

How hard is it to unequivocally place the word false in there? Yet I haven’t seen it 100% stated by trusted sources.

And if it ever transpires he was a recent convert I fear things will escalate even more because of this.

(I’m not suggesting I believe this. I just worry that even if it is a tiny possibility, it doesn’t seem to be unequivocally ruled out and could potentially play into the hands of troublemakers).

Communication requires the recipient to clearly understand the message and I believe the govt’ and authorities could’ve been much, much stronger in stating any false rumours regarding the suspect’s background as false without prejudicing any future proceedings.
 

Tetchytyke

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It don't think that can be reasonably said. It may or may not be true, depending on all sorts of factors and views of fairness ( for instance, does everybody born here get priority for employment, housing, health care etc over immigrants?).
Asylum seekers are, by law, not allowed to work. They are also not given any choice as to where they are placed for housing.

As you will imagine, the Home Office- who are responsible for housing asylum seekers- will choose areas with have low rental prices. And, as you will also imagine, the cheapest rental prices are not in the most salubrious towns of the UK.

The truth is that asylum seekers aren’t given priority for anything. People who believe otherwise simply do not know what they are talking about. The problem is that those who do know that this isn’t true are more than happy to promote mistruths and half-truths for their own political agenda.

The housing of asylum seekers in hotels is horrible for everyone concerned. The Holiday Inn right in the centre of [popular large Northern city] houses them on the lower floors, and they have boarded off half the restaurant to accommodate them. They don’t have access to any of the facilities at that hotel, and were forced to use the back entrance. I stayed there once, paying a decent room rate, and have refused to go back because of how awful the situation was.

Of course the real beneficiaries of the situation are Serco, who are responsible for asylum seeker placements, but funnily enough the far-right don’t go and torch Rupert Soames’ house.

One thing I don’t think is helpful is the lack of an unequivocal early statement about the attacker NOT being a Muslim. I’m sure our police and security services will know everything about him by now.
Islam is practised by only about 2% of people in Rwanda. It’s highly unlikely this person is Muslim.

Until the judge named him, the government couldn’t say anything.
 

King Lazy

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In my post I clearly stated it is logical he is not. I agree it is as you say highly unlikely.

But we shouldn’t have to go off Rwandan demographic statistics.

It would not prejudice a trial to clearly state he is not of the Muslim faith. After all, people swear on various holy books in court. And some time has passed since the judge released the name.

If there is even a tiny chance he is then people will create conspiracies. They can be clearly nipped in the bud.

And if I were a Muslim fearing reprisal I’d want it clearly stated that such an attack is absolutely nothing to do with my faith.

I just want to see a clearly worded refute of the conspiracies by someone high up as I feel our leaders are not helping dispel fake news and misinformation.
 

OhNoAPacer

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In my post I clearly stated it is logical he is not. I agree it is as you say highly unlikely.

But we shouldn’t have to go off Rwandan demographic statistics.

It would not prejudice a trial to clearly state he is not of the Muslim faith. After all, people swear on various holy books in court. And some time has passed since the judge released the name.

If there is even a tiny chance he is then people will create conspiracies. They can be clearly nipped in the bud.

And if I were a Muslim fearing reprisal I’d want it clearly stated that such an attack is absolutely nothing to do with my faith.

I just want to see a clearly worded refute of the conspiracies by someone high up as I feel our leaders are not helping dispel fake news and misinformation.
So if it turns out he is, for example, Roman Catholic, we can expect these brave patriots to switch from attacking Mosques to attacking Roman Catholic churches.

Of course the correct answer is it doesn't matter what faith he has or doesn't have there is no justification for mob violence and racist islamophibic vile hatred.
 

yorkie

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Islam is practised by only about 2% of people in Rwanda. It’s highly unlikely this person is Muslim.
They are Christian; it has been widely reported. I will edit this post with a link and quote shortly.

In truth, Axel Rudakubana was described by neighbours as a “quiet choir boy” who comes from a family that regularly attends a Christian church.
 

Bantamzen

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i don't understand
I was being sarcastic, the judge should have been asked to reveal the suspect's identity sooner.

but none of that is true. That's why it isn't an excuse. Even if a tiny bit were true it would still not be an excuse to burn down a library !
But we are talking about people's perceptions, facts don't always come into consideration for them. And in many areas people actually believe what they see on social media, no matter how much of an echo chamber it is. In their minds, or at least some, the violence is justified because they don't feel as though they are heard. So when social media tells them the attacker was a Muslim kid fresh off a boat, they were away kicking down walls to use the bricks to throw.

It is this disconnect that needs addressing, the government can't just lock up the people who rioted and forget about it. They are going to have to try to engage with communities left disillusioned with the country as they see it. Otherwise this will just happen again and again.
 

jon0844

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Tommy Robinson is now calling foul of the Daily Mail for doxxing him, now his hotel in Cyprus has been found.

Now, I'm pretty sure staying in a hotel and being a high profile figure recognised by almost everyone means it wasn't some underhand investigating of where he was - someone almost certainly saw him there.

Funny how he wants the press to be regulated when it affects him. He's never had any issues before.
 
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