FCC Forum regarding 313s

[Aictos]

I didn't realise but it was the FCC Meet the Directors forum recently and came across this interesting question and answer which is in bold below (note the obvious spelling mistake was not my doing):

Question number 61

From **********
Q

Will the 'Hertford Loop' ever have 8 carriages? This line has been getting busier and busier over the last few years.
A

Hi **********,

There are no current plans to replace the exicsting fleet, as new trains arrive on other routes it will free up more trains for use on the Hertford and Welwyn lines and therefore increase capacity.

Regards

Now this raises a interesting question, I wonder what they could mean by that?

 

[34D]

I didn't realise but it was the FCC Meet the Directors forum recently and came across this interesting question and answer which is in bold below (note the obvious spelling mistake was not my doing):

Question number 61

From **********
Q

Will the 'Hertford Loop' ever have 8 carriages? This line has been getting busier and busier over the last few years.
A

Hi **********,

There are no current plans to replace the exicsting fleet, as new trains arrive on other routes it will free up more trains for use on the Hertford and Welwyn lines and therefore increase capacity.

Regards

Now this raises a interesting question, I wonder what they could mean by that?

Probably just that when 317s get replaced by the thameslink units that some 317s may operate some kind of inner suburban service to Kings Cross.

There would be a fair amount of work needed to allow for 8 car trains though. Example New Barnet can't take an 8 car train on p4 (down slow). Neither can many stations on the loop.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There would be a fair amount of work needed to allow for 8 car trains though. Example New Barnet can't take an 8 car train on p4 (down slow). Neither can many stations on the loop.

From what I can see only Hertford North on the Hertford Loop can take 8 cars; the rest can all take 6 minimum though. New Barnet looks fine for 8 cars on all platforms, places like Hadley Wood don't though.

NB - All info taken from most recent Quail, a lot could have changed since then though, and I think there have been some platform extensions up there over recent years.

 

[Class377/5]

I didn't realise but it was the FCC Meet the Directors forum recently and came across this interesting question and answer which is in bold below (note the obvious spelling mistake was not my doing):

Question number 61

From **********
Q

Will the 'Hertford Loop' ever have 8 carriages? This line has been getting busier and busier over the last few years.
A

Hi **********,

There are no current plans to replace the exicsting fleet, as new trains arrive on other routes it will free up more trains for use on the Hertford and Welwyn lines and therefore increase capacity.

Regards

Now this raises a interesting question, I wonder what they could mean by that?

It means that the new Thameslink stock will provide some services to Welywn, allowing more trains to Hertford Loop. Current thinking for the 313 fleet on December 2018 is

All day (mix of 3 & 6 cars)

2tph Moorgate - Hertford North
2tph Moorgate - Gordon Hill
2tph Moorgate - Letchworth via Hertford Loop
2tph Moorgate - Welywn Garden City

Additional peak trains

2-4tph Moorgate - Hertford North (6 car services)

Welywn would see 4tph to Thameslink using the new Thameslink fleet.

In 2020, the Thameslink franchise will be up for renewal and it's expected they will be looking for 313 replacement during that franchise.

 

[mtmikethom]

As said earlier New Barnet P4 cannot take 8 cars which is why the 1757 (M-F) Kings Cross to Welwyn service has ceased to stop there, It does though call at Hadley Wood which will take 8 cars.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I see New Barnet as all 4 platforms being 8 cars and Hadley Wood platforms 1-3 taking 6 and 4 taking 9, so that could take 8 cars with ease if the 8 car platforms defined couldn't.

 

[jon0844]

A train based on a 378 seems the most sensible option, with most in a fixed 6-car configuration and walk-through gangways. I say this despite having lots of reservations about quality control on Bombardier built stock.

The seating would need to be more like the S-Stock for longer journeys (as far as Letchworth) and with more room for standing, and tip-down seats for off-peak.

As I was told on good authority some time ago that a 378 did a test run into Moorgate one night/early morning, they should also fit.

However, I am not sure there's a real rush to do this as the current stock seems to be doing a perfectly good job. They'll probably be run as long as humanly possible, like the Pacers - except I don't mind being on a 313.

 

[DXMachina]

As I was told on good authority some time ago that a 378 did a test run into Moorgate one night/early morning, they should also fit.

That keeps being repeated, always unsourced. And only on here.

 

[jon0844]

I can't reveal the source as I was asked not to.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I can't reveal the source as I was asked not to.

I'm always rather sceptical about these kind of comments given that its hardly likely to threaten state security for the adventures of the Class 378 to be common knowledge.

 

[Clip]

However, I am not sure there's a real rush to do this as the current stock seems to be doing a perfectly good job. They'll probably be run as long as humanly possible, like the Pacers - except I don't mind being on a 313.

I remember a thread about LO services on the loop and I was saying how the stock was good enough for it for many many years as long as they kept up the maintenence programme properly instead of a costly replacement with 378's. Thikn it got peoples back up cos they wanted shiny new trains.

 

[jon0844]

I'm always rather sceptical about these kind of comments given that its hardly likely to threaten state security for the adventures of the Class 378 to be common knowledge.

That's no problem. It might not be true, but I still wouldn't say who said when I was asked not to.

I've said many times that 313s have plenty of years left in them, especially if refurbished to the standard as done by Southern.

I'also said a long tim ago that FCC, when Elaine Holt was in charge (and I was at Herford House in a room with her telling me directly), was working closely with TfL on co-funding an increased service for trains to Moorgate, with a 15 minute frequency to WGC and Hertford North (which in turn would increase the frequency from Alexandra Palace inwards). This was back in 2006, but even back then there have been lots of discussions on what could happen.

My prediction (based only on my own opinion although what I've heard plays a part) is that these routes will become part of London Overground one day. This will then lead to new rolling stock.

Long before then, we'll have already seen smartcards being accepted along the route, making it even easier to do - even if it begins with a simple take over, just as the 313s were 'branded' LO before the 378s arrived.

 

[Aictos]

From what I can see only Hertford North on the Hertford Loop can take 8 cars; the rest can all take 6 minimum though. New Barnet looks fine for 8 cars on all platforms, places like Hadley Wood don't though.

NB - All info taken from most recent Quail, a lot could have changed since then though, and I think there have been some platform extensions up there over recent years.

No station on the Hertford Loop can take any train longer then 6 carriages, there is the odd exception though as Hertford North Platforms 1 & 2 can take a 7 car train, also Palmers Green and Bowes Park have longer platforms then is currently in use so they could easily take a 8 car if Network Rail brought the disused ends of the platforms back into use.

There has been no platform extensions anywhere on the Hertford Loop, nor is there likely to unless the next franchisee decides to run more 8 car trains on the Inners which is doubtful.