FGW to convert First Class carriages

[willc789]

First Great Western have confirmed this morning that they plan to convert one first class coach into standard class with an additional refresh/refurb for the remaining first class. Thoughts and comments?

Link: http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/...s-seats-and-refreshed-first-class-environment

More standard class seats and a refreshed first class environment
Friday 14th March 2014

First Great Western has secured agreement with the Department for Transport to increase standard class capacity on all First Great Western’s High Speed Trains, by converting some of its first class carriages.

The deal will create almost 3,000 more standard class seats a day for customers across the network and deliver nearly 16% more standard class accommodation on high speed services into London in the busy morning peak.

This is on top of an increase in peak-time seats delivered by the company in the summer of 2012, through the rebuilding and upgrading of disused buffet cars to create additional seats.

First Great Western Managing Director Mark Hopwood said: "We know that, ultimately, the only long-term solution to busy services is more trains. New Intercity Express trains are on their way, however, it is still some time before they will be ready for service. The conversion of these carriages to create more standard class seating is crucial in the interim period."

In addition to the standard class re-seating, work will be undertaken to refresh the remaining first class accommodation, 1½ carriages per train, recognising the importance of this to commuter, business and leisure customers. This activity will include realignment of single seats, installation of privacy screens, more comfortable headrests, re-covered seats, new carpets and other changes designed to improve the experience for first class customers.

The first completed carriages are expected to be running in June 2014, with the entire fleet completed by late summer 2015.The programme to provide additional standard class seats is being funded by the Department for Transport, while the changes to first class accommodation are being funded by First Great Western.

 

[jopsuk]

this is interesting! Presumably based upon low patronage of first class?

Do they still have 7-car sets? And it's unclear if this for the "long distance" or "high capacity" configurations

 

[transmanche]

... increase standard class capacity on all First Great Western’s High Speed Trains...

And it's unclear if this for the "long distance" or "high capacity" configurations

Both, by the look of it.

 

[Buttsy]

this is interesting! Presumably based upon low patronage of first class?

Do they still have 7-car sets? And it's unclear if this for the "long distance" or "high capacity" configurations

As far as I know there are no 'official' 7 car sets, though one will turn up very occassionally due to a coach with a major fault being taken out at some point so the train still can be used.

 

[willc789]

I've only traveled 1st class on FGW at weekends and Friday evenings on cheap advance tickets. I can only assume with a reduction in 1st class capacity, the lowest tier(s) of advance tickets will be withdrawn to somewhat lower demand?

 

[GodAtum]

That's a shame I wouldnt say 1st class is empty during rush hour.

 

[YorkshireBear]

How packed are FGW first class? is this going to cause issues? I presume not but thought i best ask...

 

[DarloRich]

Finally, a TOC giving up some first class capacity to help us in cattle have a bit more room.

I know the FC free loaders we often see on this site will be sad but it helps more of us than you

 

[Greenback]

I assume that a business decision has been taken based on the bottom line - ie a train with one more standard class carriage and one less first class carriage will generate more revenue overall.

In which case, they are quite entitled to do what they think is best for the business.

I do suspect, however, that this will be linked to an overhaul of Advance fares in first class, and possibly standard.

 

[swt_passenger]

They seem to spin this as their idea:

First Great Western has secured agreement with the Department for Transport to increase standard class capacity

...but as was discussed a while ago in a previous thread on the subject, it was stated by DfT as going to happen when the direct award franchise was announced last October. Crept under the radar at the time, but it was always expected - seems odd to me that they've waited so long to make this new announcement.

The Department for Transport will continue to work with FGW on a number of other proposals to improve services over the next two years, including:

increasing the capacity of the existing high speed train fleet, with the addition of new seating in advance of the arrival of the new intercity express trains...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/franchising-deal-to-boost-services-on-great-western-main-line?

 

[IanXC]

I do suspect, however, that this will be linked to an overhaul of Advance fares in first class, and possibly standard.

Possibly also the end of eastbound first class season tickets too.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Have the converted Buffet cars been put into service yet or is that still to come?

 

[Buttsy]

Have the converted Buffet cars been put into service yet or is that still to come?

That was finished about a year or so ago, all 2+7 HSTs are now 2+8. Some are high density (with mirco buffet & 2 1st class coaches) or long distance (full buffet and 2.5 1st class coaches)

 

[YorkshireBear]

That was finished about a year or so ago, all 2+7 HSTs are now 2+8. Some are high density (with mirco buffet & 2 1st class coaches) or long distance (full buffet and 2.5 1st class coaches)

Cheers, i lost track of that project at some point not sure when. 1 First Class coach does not seem like a lot....

 

[Sleepy]

Quite surprised at this - seem to be pandering to Reading commuters at the expense of long distance travellers, think Leisure travellers used to 1st class due to reduced capacity will get a shock if forced to use standard given the minimal leg room etc. The business traveller will also be less than pleased if they are to be crammed in !! Will the longer term effect 1st class catering trolley as well if a reduction in 1st class travel occurs ?

 

[Greenback]

Cheers, i lost track of that project at some point not sure when. 1 First Class coach does not seem like a lot....

One first class coach isn't a lot. Perhaps the number of people travelling on full first class tickets has dropped, and FGW feel that they can make more from a more cramped standard class coach than by offering very cheap Advance fares in first class.

Quite surprised at this - seem to be pandering to Reading commuters at the expense of long distance travellers, think Leisure travellers used to 1st class due to reduced capacity will get a shock if forced to use standard given the minimal leg room etc. The business traveller will also be less than pleased if they are to be crammed in !! Will the longer term effect 1st class catering trolley as well if a reduction in 1st class travel occurs ?

FGW has been increasingly focused on short and medium flows over time. when I started with them in 1998, the training was focused on the quality of the product, with the company seeing itself as an Inter City business for long distance travellers.

These days it looks as though it would prefer to just run London to Bristol and Oxford, to serve the propserous Thames Valley. Anything beyond doesn't matter!

 

[DarloRich]

These days it looks as though it would prefer to just run London to Bristol and Oxford, to serve the propserous Thames Valley. Anything beyond doesn't matter!

AKA - where the money lives and where any profit will come from

 

[Greenback]

AKA - where the money lives and where any profit will come from

Quite. Transfer trains from and to South Wales to Arriva!

 

[broadgage]

I suspect that this a largely a politicly influenced decision now that MPs can not use first at public expense.
During the recent weather related disruption I recall a number of MPs stating that "first class should be opened up" at times of disruption.

IMHO, MPs should be allowed first class travel, not because they deserve it, but to stop this sort of thing !

I do not consider that one and a half first class coaches will be enough at busy times.
The new trains have only limited first class accomadation, and a cynic might suggest that old HSTs need to be downgraded before the new trains come in.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ooh you cynic broadgage. Why would the Government want to make the HST worse before bringing in the Insanely Expensive Project train?

It's always a shame to see first class get downgraded, you can't exactly say that first class was grossly over-proportioned on FGW. Compared to Virgin and EastCoast they don't have as much to start with.

Am I right in thinking that the long-distance and high-density sets operate in a common pool these days?

 

[TEW]

Have the converted Buffet cars been put into service yet or is that still to come?

The original buffet conversion was complete a while ago but there are 4 or 5 vehicles being converted now. 42517 was delivered to Laira recently.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Am I right in thinking that the long-distance and high-density sets operate in a common pool these days?

No, they are still diagrammed separately. There are 3 types of FGW HST diagram; full buffet, low-density; full buffet, high-density and micro buffet, high-density. The difference between low and high-density sets seems to be constantly overstated on here though, low density sets only have 2 more tables per coach.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Ooh you cynic broadgage. Why would the Government want to make the HST worse before bringing in the Insanely Expensive Project train?

It's always a shame to see first class get downgraded, you can't exactly say that first class was grossly over-proportioned on FGW. Compared to Virgin and EastCoast they don't have as much to start with.

Am I right in thinking that the long-distance and high-density sets operate in a common pool these days?

Hadn't thought of that!

 

[No Fault Found]

I'd say it's much more important that somebody that pays for a standard class ticket gets a seat rather than a first class ticket holder having extra elbow space on a leather seat.

Now what would happen if a first class ticket holder couldn't get a seat on a service as all the first class seats were taken?

 

[lincolnshire]

It seems that First Great Western has the right idea in getting rid if a first class coach in there trains, so those who want to pay the money can still travel first class and instead of trying to fill up seats by reduceing price and making offers of advance tickets to help fill up the underused first class.

Its a bit like British Airways a few years ago when all they wanted on there planes to carry first class and business class passengers as they were the high fare payers and just a few poor fare payers at the back end of the plane, just to fill up space. Then what happened hard times arrived and companies that paid for staff to travel first and business class downgraded there staff to travel with the rest of us at the back of the plane, so profits fell and the back was subsidiseing the front first and business classes.

Its the same on trains people paying full fare subsidiseing the first class passengers who are travelling on advance fares etc. You can,t afford to run a train with just first class passengers and no standard class passengers.

Some will object I know and disagree but think about it.

 

[starrymarkb]

Quite surprised at this - seem to be pandering to Reading commuters at the expense of long distance travellers, think Leisure travellers used to 1st class due to reduced capacity will get a shock if forced to use standard given the minimal leg room etc. The business traveller will also be less than pleased if they are to be crammed in !! Will the longer term effect 1st class catering trolley as well if a reduction in 1st class travel occurs ?

FGW have the best legroom in Standard of all the IC fleets.

I think one issue is since FGW and FGW Link were merged they can't have a cheaper "Turbo only" season ticket, so Reading commuters are choosing the HSTs over the slower Turbos. Mind you haven't FGW been reprimanded for the number of services that are passengers in excess of capacity in the Thames Valley in recent years?

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect that this a largely a politicly influenced decision now that MPs can not use first at public expense.
During the recent weather related disruption I recall a number of MPs stating that "first class should be opened up" at times of disruption.

IMHO, MPs should be allowed first class travel, not because they deserve it, but to stop this sort of thing !

Hmm decent point, but others would say they should only get free standard class transport, so they're more likely to improve that class
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is it really only one and a half 1st carriages left ? That seems too few for an InterCity service.

I remember getting trains to Lancaster in the late 90's and having to pass about four (empty) first class carriages at Euston to get to standard. Surely this is more a case for reduction.

Perhaps they should have slightly slower HST's through Cornwall, but have the full nine carriages.

 

[TEW]

FGW have the best legroom in Standard of all the IC fleets.

I think one issue is since FGW and FGW Link were merged they can't have a cheaper "Turbo only" season ticket, so Reading commuters are choosing the HSTs over the slower Turbos. Mind you haven't FGW been reprimanded for the number of services that are passengers in excess of capacity in the Thames Valley in recent years?

A Turbo only season ticket would make no sense. The Turbos in the peak are far more over capacity than the HSTs. As I'm sure Flamingo will confirm, there is space on most the HST services, it's just that passengers often won't walk down the train.

 

[Goldfish62]

Quite surprised at this - seem to be pandering to Reading commuters at the expense of long distance travellers, think Leisure travellers used to 1st class due to reduced capacity will get a shock if forced to use standard given the minimal leg room etc. The business traveller will also be less than pleased if they are to be crammed in !! Will the longer term effect 1st class catering trolley as well if a reduction in 1st class travel occurs ?

I think you're quite right - pandering to the Reading commuters who only have 25 min to stand.

FGW advance 1st Class fares are already on a par with VT and EC, yet without the freebies. This will undoubtedly remove the lowest tier of 1st advance fares to discourage 1st Class travel. It'll work with me - car all the time to Cornwall from now on!

 

[Hophead]

Possibly also the end of eastbound first class season tickets too.

They'll just have to buy westbound ones instead.

 

[Parallel]

Personally I'm not too bothered about the cut in first class seats on the FGW HSTs. I can understand why people who frequently travel in first class think it's a shame though. Whenever I see a HST during peak time, first class is adequately loaded but it's the out of peak times on weekdays I think, where I've seen very minimal passengers in first class frequently, sometimes even zero. Compared to other TOCs, FGW seems to have a large amount of first class seats and I'm sure converting some won't do much damage, particularly now more than ever people are hunting for 'value for money' - and if it is unworkable, they can always convert it back again!