First Class

[southern442]

This is my first thread so please let me know if there is anything wrong.

I set this up because I thought it would be an interesting discussion to find out if first class is really worth it on some trains. I'm not normally a frequent first class traveler but I think this is interesting to find out whether some particular classes of train are lacking in first class quality.

 

[SS4]

This has been done a few times before

Naturally it's only something you can decide but usually EC and VT come out on top and FCC/Southern are bottom

 

[HST Power]

Naturally it's only something you can decide but usually EC and VT come out on top and FCC/Southern are bottom

This

As a frequent First Class customer on several major routes the above is very true.

I recommend you grab a cheap Advance First and take a trip of the ECML/WCML.

 

[telstarbox]

It depends on whether you see FC as worth it just for a seat/extra space/room to do work on the train , or as a 'luxury' service with free food and drink, lounges and the rest.

 

[duncanp]

One good bargain is weekend first upgrades on several routes. South West Trains offer this for £5 each way, which is a good deal when travelling down to Bournemouth and Poole at this time of year.

First Advance for long journeys is also worth it, but I do think that walk up first class fares are way too expensive.

 

[southern442]

Thanks

I see First class as no more than an upgrade to standard class.
However I think that FCC has quite a good first class in terms of the class 319's, despite how crap they are.

One thing that people misunderstand is Southern. I have realized that on The majority of southern trains the first class seating is identical to standard. However, on the 377/3's, the tables are bigger, and on the 377/4's the seats are comfier, and there is partition. On east coast, the seats for first are also the same as standard (correct me if i'm wrong) but there is an upgrade to service (complimentary meals, drinks etc.) Southern have the same basic principal. For extra money you are guaranteed a seat, you have complimentary refreshments (when available) and you can have a plug to use your laptop, plus the extra in 377/3's and 4's. Southeastern have none of this.

 

[yorkie]

I thought it would be an interesting discussion to find out if first class is really worth it on some trains.

Which trains?

It will depend on the type of stock, the time & day of departure (the day of the week may make a difference), how busy the train is likely to be (which may also be subject to special or sporting events), the TOC, and the price difference.

On east coast, the seats for first are also the same as standard (correct me if i'm wrong)

You are wrong.

but there is an upgrade to service (complimentary meals, drinks etc.) Southern have the same basic principal.

I don't agree that the 1st Class offer on East Coast and Southern are in any way comparable.

For extra money you are guaranteed a seat, you have complimentary refreshments (when available) and you can have a plug to use your laptop, plus the extra in 377/3's and 4's. Southeastern have none of this.

No guarantee of a seat but I agree it's far more likely. On some Southern trains, there is no difference at all. The 442s (which operate on the Brighton Express & Gatwick Express routes) perhaps have the biggest difference. Even some of the Southern trains that have a better layout in 1st than most of the train, tend to have a similar higher standard area in Standard, if you know where to find it.

 

[Bob Ames]

VT currently have a 1st seat sale to London Euston - with prices not much more than standard, it would be rude not to.

 

[southern442]

You are wrong.

I don't agree that the 1st Class offer on East Coast and Southern are in any way comparable.

I had a look and I have concluded, that the seating in 1st on EC is not much different to 2nd. I agree when you say about comparison, the message I was trying to convey is that on these particular TOC'S it is more of a service upgrade, as opposed to a seating upgrade. Another point I want to mention is that in terms of classes of train, first class can be a lot different, even for 1 toc. For example, whilst first on GA is relatively good, on the class 321's the first class seating does not even have tables, which i think is highly inappropriate.

 

[142094]

I had a look and I have concluded, that the seating in 1st on EC is not much different to 2nd.

The actual seat is just about the same. However, there is increased leg room, and the seat reclines.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I had a look and I have concluded, that the seating in 1st on EC is not much different to 2nd.

Absolutely incorrect!

As a regular EC passenger i can assure you that the seats in First are wider, have adjustable backs, have more legroom and all have tables, reading lights and curtains; you could compare them with the First class seats on First Great Western, but not with the corresponding seats in Standard.

 

[southern442]

Absolutely incorrect!

As a regular EC passenger i can assure you that the seats in First are wider, have adjustable backs, have more legroom and all have tables, reading lights and curtains; you could compare them with the First class seats on First Great Western, but not with the corresponding seats in Standard.

Ah, I see.

 

[southern442]

I have done a bit more snooping around and found out that the 350's and 450's use the same first class seat as southern's 377 standard class seat! Similarly the 360 first class seat is the 444, 332, 185 and 350 standard class seat, with a few modifications. And obviously a first in a 375 and 465 is worse than standard on a 377 or 171 or nearly any other long distance unit for that matter.

 

[MP33]

The GA 321 seats may not have tables. But they do have greater leg room and are in a 2 by 2 configuration.

This week as I left through the connecting green door at Liverpool Street, I thought I saw a woman blubbing away in Standard class.

The extra is worth it not to put up with that rubbish.

 

[musicking1306]

I do like the First Class of First Great Western HST's as sometimes when you are on a long journey the more comfortable seat with at seat service (Weekday Only) is very nice. The Nice thing of not having to walk to the buffet and Que for your complimentary items. The Complimentary items consist of a few cups of Tea / Coffee and some biscuits. Nothing too special however the garenteed window and the 2+1 seating with a table is allways worth upgrading on a long distance journey.

 

[455driver]

458 1st uses the same seats as HST standard.

 

[1018509]

Advance purchase deals can be good for First Class tickets. I have one, bought on Friday 30 July, for the 6 August - New Milton to South Bromley via Clapham Junction - Standard Advance Single £17 - Advance First Class Single £19.

All right so Clapham Junction to Victoria isn't first class but the rest of the journey is. That's round about a £7 or so more than my Standard Class Priv Single would be - bargain.

 

[southern442]

Am I the only one who thinks that antimacassars on standard class seats (on transpennine and heathrow express) are pointless?

 

[tsr]

All right so Clapham Junction to Victoria isn't first class but the rest of the journey is. That's round about a £7 or so more than my Standard Class Priv Single would be - bargain.

Clapham Jn - Victoria could have First Class accommodation, depending on your choice of Southern train, though by the time you've found it and sat down, it'll almost be time to change trains again... as you no doubt realise!

Am I the only one who thinks that antimacassars on standard class seats (on transpennine and heathrow express) are pointless?

No - I agree. In fact, I don't much like them at all. It's far better to have a nice clean seat than a bit of paper or cloth flapping around, in my opinion, but I will on the other hand happily accept them as "better than nothing" if the train has to be used a high number of times between seat cleaning sessions.

They also exist in all accommodation on some FGW longer-distance services.

 

[southern442]

I've done more research, and a book is telling me that class 375's do actually have more legroom in first. Plus there is the 375/9's that have a different seat anyway in standard.

 

[southern442]

It seems that recently FCC has "converted" some first class into standard, but really all they have done is removed the antimacassars from the seats and taken the "1" logo on the end of the train! This means that some standard class passengers get to sit in the same conditions as first class.

 

[HST Power]

It seems that recently FCC has "converted" some first class into standard, but really all they have done is removed the antimacassars from the seats and taken the "1" logo on the end of the train! This means that some standard class passengers get to sit in the same conditions as first class.

That wouldn't surprise me. FCC and 'First Class' are incompatible terms.

 

[Lee_Again]

That wouldn't surprise me. FCC and 'First Class' are incompatible terms.

First Class is not always about free food, wi-fi and bigger seats.

I use First Class on FCC and in the mornings it means I always get a seat on the commute to London. On many services in Standard this is not possible.

If you don't like First Class (on FCC) that's fine. But there are other opinions other than yours. I lonve the space and the table to put my paper or tablet on.

I would, however, like Wi-Fi added at the next round of upgrades.

 

[HST Power]

First Class is not always about free food, wi-fi and bigger seats.

I use First Class on FCC and in the mornings it means I always get a seat on the commute to London. On many services in Standard this is not possible.

If you don't like First Class (on FCC) that's fine. But there are other opinions other than yours. I lonve the space and the table to put my paper or tablet on.

I would, however, like Wi-Fi added at the next round of upgrades.

I wasn't saying my opinion was absolute - on the contrary, I agree with you.

It's not a franchise designed for catering. I don't expect catering, and I know I will never get catering, not with FCC. Perhaps I should have worded my post a bit better. I'm still happy to pay for it, what I'm saying is that it is just a seat, nothing more.

What infuriates with me FCC is the lack of checks in the First Class compartment and the poor First Class accommodation offered on the 317, where you haven't even got a table to put a paper on!

 

[starrymarkb]

I've got my first paid for trip in first this weekend (I have been upgraded before due to faulty aircon on an ICE-T) from Exeter to London with SWT - not fussed about freebies but as it was only £5 more then standard for the return trip I thought I'd go for it. Might be wise as Standard will be busy with the £15 day trip promotion

 

[Muzer]

Comfort-wise, I actually prefer the seats in standard on SWT 158s/159s - but others disagree with me; seat comfort is a very subjective thing.

From last time I was in there (quite a while back!), I seem to remember it has 2+1 seating, every seat is a table seat, it has lights, and most importantly for me it has power sockets. I think there might be some complimentary stuff at certain times of day but I'm not sure about the weekend.

 

[khib70]

I travel from Scotland to Manchester several times a year and First is a bottom-line requirement. Literally bottom-line, because going in Standard on TPE's dreadful 185's is like sitting on a slightly furry plank for three hours listening to engine noises. Edinburgh buses have more comfortable seats and quieter engines.

First gets you a seat with at least some padding, plus tea and biccy type refreshments. Mind you the last half hour could be a bit cramped when they declassified First to accommodate the hordes of commuters picked up after Bolton. To be fair, I think they've stopped doing that now, and electrification will bring 350/4's with about ten more (hopefully padded) seats, and journeys via Wigan will cut out the commuter traffic a bit.

And to be fair to TPE again, their First advances are very good value.

 

[HST Power]

I travel from Scotland to Manchester several times a year and First is a bottom-line requirement. Literally bottom-line, because going in Standard on TPE's dreadful 185's is like sitting on a slightly furry plank for three hours listening to engine noises. Edinburgh buses have more comfortable seats and quieter engines.

Do TPE offer anything as part of their First Class product? I've never travelled with them.

 

[southern442]

I wasn't saying my opinion was absolute - on the contrary, I agree with you.

It's not a franchise designed for catering. I don't expect catering, and I know I will never get catering, not with FCC. Perhaps I should have worded my post a bit better. I'm still happy to pay for it, what I'm saying is that it is just a seat, nothing more.

What infuriates with me FCC is the lack of checks in the First Class compartment and the poor First Class accommodation offered on the 317, where you haven't even got a table to put a paper on!

I agree. I think that some FCC first class is good, Such as on the class 319's, which have a lot better first class than any other suburban unit of it's kind, however when you travel on their 317's and 377's first class, you feel like there is something missing, particularly with the former, as (like you said) they retain the pathetic tables that at the most you can put a drink (from the non existent trolley) on. But at least there is a 99% chance of you getting a seat in first (as opposed to the 0% chance in standard!) which I suppose is good enough.

 

[jon0844]

FCC 'declassified' one 377/5 compartment some time ago (perhaps a year or more?). I always thought it was the northern end but was on one recently where it was the other way around. Must confuse people.

They did this to reduce overcrowding and there are signs to say you can use it, not just the removal of FC signs.

The 321s have a good FC area, but the 317s are pathetic. Of course, if you're able to get a seat where you otherwise wouldn't, it will still be worth it for some.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4