First Great Western Diversions spring 2013

[TEW]

It is much easier to run it as an HST as it avoids the need for a run-round at Westbury and allows it so be formed of and form London Waterloo-Penzance services.

 

[ushawk]

It is much easier to run it as an HST as it avoids the need for a run-round at Westbury and allows it so be formed of and form London Waterloo-Penzance services.

Would it then just be ran as a normal overnight train then ? I mean you can't advertise it as a sleeper !!!

 

[HSTMikey]

Would it then just be ran as a normal overnight train then ? I mean you can't advertise it as a sleeper !!!

If you search for these trains on southernrailway.com, it isn't advertised as a sleeper so I'm guessing they will just run as overnight trains with no sleeper berths. I guess it saves them having to clean it at Waterloo and find somewhere else to put it for the day, they can just use it for the first service to the West Country.

 

[louis97]

Reading station Will be open partly during the diversions
-P2 Will be open with Pilot man working from Reading West for hourly Basingstoke services and a hourly Bedwyn service with 2 hourly extensions to Westbury.
-P4/5/6 Will be open for Waterloo and Gatwick/Redhill services

 

[87015]

Was it a HST last time? You'd hope it is just a HST timing load as FGW don't have a D245 or whatever the sleeper is running times set up between Waterloo and Westbury.

There is no obvious reason they can't run the overnight with the booked stock - it went to Waterloo for a few years in the '90s. Seems a fairly simple operation to run it top and tail Waterloo - Westbury, detach the rear ronnie from the down there and put it on the front of the up.

 

[Manchester77]

Could you have at HST set comprised of 2 passenger cars, 6 sleeper cars or are the sleeper mark III's not compatible with HSTs?

 

[anthony263]

Could you have at HST set comprised of 2 passenger cars, 6 sleeper cars or are the sleeper mark III's not compatible with HSTs?

The mk3's used on the GW sleeper are not compatible with the hst power car's

Also the 2 hourly extensions to the Reading - Bedwyn service through to Westbury will give us a rare sight of the class 165/166's running into Westbury

 

[ainsworth74]

The mk3's used on the GW sleeper are not compatible with the hst power car's

Mk3s that are not currently part of HST sets are not compatible not just the GW sleeper vehicles!

 

[TEW]

Was it a HST last time? You'd hope it is just a HST timing load as FGW don't have a D245 or whatever the sleeper is running times set up between Waterloo and Westbury.

There is no obvious reason they can't run the overnight with the booked stock - it went to Waterloo for a few years in the '90s. Seems a fairly simple operation to run it top and tail Waterloo - Westbury, detach the rear ronnie from the down there and put it on the front of the up.

Last time the diversions were on it was the period between Christmas and New Year so the sleeper wasn't booked to run. If you use the standard sleeper stock in to Waterloo you then have the problem of getting across London to Old Oak Common every morning and evening and also getting a balancing HST to work the early and late services the sleeper forms/ is formed off.

 

[Goatboy]

It is much easier to run it as an HST as it avoids the need for a run-round at Westbury and allows it so be formed of and form London Waterloo-Penzance services.

I'd have thoght its even easier to simply cancel it. Can't see much demand for it without beds.

 

[87015]

Last time the diversions were on it was the period between Christmas and New Year so the sleeper wasn't booked to run. If you use the standard sleeper stock in to Waterloo you then have the problem of getting across London to Old Oak Common every morning and evening and also getting a balancing HST to work the early and late services the sleeper forms/ is formed off.

So a few ECS moves from Old Oak to Waterloo is too difficult? Pathetic!

 

[jopsuk]

Could you have at HST set comprised of 2 passenger cars, 6 sleeper cars or are the sleeper mark III's not compatible with HSTs?

HST Mark 3s have a different power system to hauled stock ones- BR decided to put in an (at the time) more modern system on the HSTs, but had to make sure the hauled stock was still compatible with the mark 1 and 2 stock- and the locos that hauled them.

 

[TEW]

So a few ECS moves from Old Oak to Waterloo is too difficult? Pathetic!

And a run-round at Westbury at 3am probably isn't that easy either. They could have simply cancelled the service. Remember it's going to be wanting to leave Waterloo in the morning peak to get to Old Oak Common as well, not exactly the easiest time of day to get paths. Then you have to get staff trained on the route. Last year Exeter crew, who sign the sleeper stock, didn't work past Basingstoke either. So you'd probably have to train some more crew on 57s/LHCS MK3s just for a couple of days.

 

[455driver]

I'd have thoght its even easier to simply cancel it. Can't see much demand for it without beds.

Have you ever caught the train and travelled in the "day" coaches?

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Why not run via Chertsey, Hounslow, Acton Central, Neasden Jc and reverse at South Ruislip or WestRuislip to get to Paddington?

Would minimise the top and tailing.

The "extra" loco could even be a Chiltern 67 if one is spare overnight in the Wembley area...

 

[Requeststop]

I got caught on the Waterloo - Westbury run 2 year ago Xmas-New Year 2010). Never again.

It was an HST. Train virtually empty from Waterloo to Basingstoke and easy access to the buffet. However, we were sent all over the place to get to Woking, and in a few places we stopped to allow SWT services to pass us. Very slow, in places we were doing 5mph. Stopped at Woking, (I suppose for crew change) and a slowish run to Basingstoke. Nearly 2 hours from Waterloo to Basingstoke!

At Basingstoke, it seemed that the world and it's friend decended onto the train. Decent run through Salisbury to Westbury. Most the train got off there, and the remaining journey fairly satisfactory.

If I was to plan a journey to the South West beyond Exeter during this period, then I'd try SWT to Exeter and then FGW onwards, or, Waterloo to Basingstoke by SWT and then catch the service via Salisbury. Check the timetables before booking. I'd never want that ride again from Waterloo to Basingstoke.

 

[swt_passenger]

I got caught on the Waterloo - Westbury run 2 year ago Xmas-New Year 2010). Never again.

It was an HST. Train virtually empty from Waterloo to Basingstoke and easy access to the buffet. However, we were sent all over the place to get to Woking, and in a few places we stopped to allow SWT services to pass us. Very slow, in places we were doing 5mph. Stopped at Woking, (I suppose for crew change) and a slowish run to Basingstoke. Nearly 2 hours from Waterloo to Basingstoke!

Changing at Basingstoke, which was set down only towards London, (and vice versa), onto an SWT service - was recommended automatically by journey planners as the HST service was overtaken as it went round the houses due to route clearance restrictions. Clearances in certain platforms also explained the very slow progress through some stations - this is believed to have been due to the power car ladders having very limited room alongside the vertical faces of the platforms.

However next time (Easter weekend) the HSTs are running straight up the main line and through Wimbledon and Clapham Jn, and using Waterloo P11. This route had not been gauge cleared for the class last time, and the timings are much better now, about 45 mins as is shown in 'opentraintimes' etc for 29th March.

 

[Requeststop]

Changing at Basingstoke, which was set down only towards London, (and vice versa), onto an SWT service - was recommended automatically by journey planners as the HST service was overtaken as it went round the houses due to route clearance restrictions. Clearances in certain platforms also explained the very slow progress through some stations - this is believed to have been due to the power car ladders having very limited room alongside the vertical faces of the platforms.

However next time (Easter weekend) the HSTs are running straight up the main line through Wimbledon and Clapham Jn, and using Waterloo P11. This route had not been gauge cleared for the class last time, and the timings are much better now, about 45 mins as is shown in 'opentraintimes' etc for 29th March.

Interesting reply. Why couldn't the FGW HST go direct on the fast line to Basingstoke?

 

[fgwrich]

Interesting reply. Why couldn't the FGW HST go direct on the fast line to Basingstoke?

Some did, others didnt.

http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/176320/LC

Mind you, as they would have been subject to SWT & their services, i can only presume that SWT had first look at train planning, getting their services through as quickly as possible. It also would have depended on what time the HST left Waterloo - Via Hounslow into Waterloo, and via Richmond leaving Waterloo vs the times of the SWTservices.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting reply. Why couldn't the FGW HST go direct on the fast line to Basingstoke?

The main line (fast or slow - it's a four track route) was not route (ie gauge) cleared for HSTs between Byfleet Jn and Waterloo, as I just wrote in the post you were quoting?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some did, others didnt.

http://railwayherald.com/imagingcentre/view/176320/LC

I was referring in my explanation to the normal main line route, (whether fast or slow), between Byfleet Jn and Waterloo. HSTs were not cleared on that route section at all last time, as per the sectional appendix of the day - hence being routed via Staines and either Richmond or Hounslow depending on path availability.

Both fast and slow line running between Basingstoke and Byfleet Jn (the area in your photo link) was already available - although there was some prior misleading wibble beforehand that suggested HSTs were not allowed on the fasts. This was back to front anyway, it was the fasts that were definitely cleared, the doubt was about a potential weight restriction on some underbridges affecting the slows. This is all described in the Network Change notices associated with Christmas 2010, but the slow line issue was sorted out beforehand anyway.

 

[TEW]

Why not run via Chertsey, Hounslow, Acton Central, Neasden Jc and reverse at South Ruislip or WestRuislip to get to Paddington?

Would minimise the top and tailing.

The "extra" loco could even be a Chiltern 67 if one is spare overnight in the Wembley area...

FGW crews don't sign 67s, you'd have to use 57s. FGW would be unlikely to top and tail the locomotives, usually the 57 would run round if the sleeper is required to reverse on route. Running the sleeper to Waterloo would require another huge amount of effort by FGW, and the Reading diverts already require enough effort without added complications. It's a holiday period anyway so less chance of business passengers using the train. I'd imagine the train will be reasonably loaded as an HST, but certainly not busy. The 1 dark MK3 day carriage on the sleeper is usually well loaded, but the 2nd coach isn't usually busy other than within Cornwall.

 

[jimm]

So does that mean Passengers will be able to board/ alight at Banbury or not?

No. The FGW trains go into Banbury station for reversal only and remain locked while they are standing in the station while the drivers change ends.

 

[TEW]

They could also at short notice reverse instead at Aynho Jn if there is late running.

 

[spark001uk]

Here's a good question, I've tried FGW and NR and neither seem to know the answer:
I sometimes get a thames day rover, plus an oxfordshire rover, and travel up and down between pad and oxford, often straight through. Now, that said, and the fact i technically have a valid ticket from london all the way to oxford with the combination of those rovers, do I still have a valid journey from pad to oxford on the banbury diversions during the blockade?

 

[TEW]

As rovers don't count as zonal tickets and single day rangers don't come under the season ticket or leisure pass exemption the train would have to call at the station which you change over tickets at. As the train is non stop from Oxford-London you can't call at the boundary station.Your best option is an Oxford-London return or Advance Purchase tickets if they are available. An off-peak day return costs £23.50.

 

[thameslink2000]

What about a 3 day Thames Rover, usually valid for unlimited travel between Paddington and Banbury. Would this be valid between Paddington and Oxford on the diverted trains via Banbury?

 

[bb21]

These services are diverted from their normal route via Reading. These two Rangers/Rovers join at Reading. There is no reason why the combination would not be accepted on the diverted route.

 

[TEW]

These services are diverted from their normal route via Reading. These two Rangers/Rovers join at Reading. There is no reason why the combination would not be accepted on the diverted route.

But which section of condition 19 does it fall under to validate the combination of tickets?
a- They aren't zonal tickets.
b- The train doesn't call at the station where you change tickets.
c- Neither are season tickets or leisure travel passes.

 

[causton]

But which section of condition 19 does it fall under to validate the combination of tickets?
a- They aren't zonal tickets.
b- The train doesn't call at the station where you change tickets.
c- Neither are season tickets or leisure travel passes.

Surely discretion should be given when the service is diverted?

 

[TEW]

Well perhaps, but we don't have anything official to say that discretion will be applied. I'd say it would be different if a service was diverted at short notice, but it is nearly three months away. Rangers/Rovers have a clearly marked valid travel area and we don't have anything to suggest they will be accepted for travel outside the area whilst the diversions are on.