First Great Western to be renamed/reliveried?

[bnm]

At a rail user group meeting in Wiltshire last month, Ian Mundy, First Great Western's Publications Manager, said that the company was to be 'renamed' and to get a new livery.

As far as I'm aware (I didn't attend, so I'm only going on second hand info) there was no timescale mentioned for this, but logically it would happen some time during the current franchise extension period.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Someone mentioned that the new 350s would get a new livery. Maybe First are changing their image? It would not surprise me if they start to remove their name from things. Some passengers think quite badly of First overheard quite a few passengers on TPE saying can't believe they were going to let First run WC.

 

[VP185]

As staff we've heard this rumour but not had any confirmation. We heard they will drop the 'First' name and be known as 'Great Western'. As long as they don't come up with something stupid such as 'Horizon Trains' like they intended for the WCML.
I always thought that trains had to carry the operators name ie Stagecoach, National Express etc but I may be wrong.

I know there's an HST set up at Kilmarnock (I think), I don't know if it's back yet but it will be interesting to see if it will receive a new livery

 

[bb21]

I always thought that trains had to carry the operators name ie Stagecoach, National Express etc but I may be wrong.

Do they? EMT is simply EMT, not Stagecoach East Midlands Trains. SWT at one stage were called Stagecoach SWT, but are now simply South West Trains.

 

[VP185]

I always thought, or was led to believe, 'One' was rebranded because the DfT told them thr train had to carry the 'National Express' name.
Come to think of it, CrossCountry doesn't carry the Arriva name either! Just ignore me!

 

[Eagle]

No, One was rebranded NXEA at the same time as NXEC started (which is odd, because the eight or ten franchises they'd held before then had never needed branding like that).

Then a couple of years later c2c started adding NX branding to its trains, although its name still remains just c2c.

SWT at one stage were called Stagecoach SWT, but are now simply South West Trains.

That was absolutely ages ago though (1997ish?).

 

[Suraggu]

I to have heard the rumour of First being dropped from the FGW brand.
As a current staff member at FGW it wouldn't bother me at all. Its just a slight name change.

Great Western will always be Great Western.

 

[Class377/5]

TPE have already started that they have a new livery lined up but was holding back for the next franchise but once extended they were considering putting the 350 fleet straight into it.

Remember we've already seen the new livery that the 365 are proposed to go into from next year which is the same as the class 700. What's important here is that the 700 images show ThamesLink (DfT always put in a L instead of a l) where as the 365s show CapitalConnect.

There is of course the possibility that the DfT have specified a standard livery for all new franchise extensions and direct awards.

Not forgetting that First are using the Scottish livery not thier own for Scotrail.

 

[Matt Taylor]

SWT is Stagecoach South Western Trains Ltd for legal purposes.

 

[alwaystouchout]

Can't help but think a rebranding might be something to do with FGW's negative image - 'Worst Great Western' etc..

 

[jonty14]

Keeps the paint companies happy!

 

[PG]

Not forgetting that First are using the Scottish livery not thier own for Scotrail.

Think that's to do with an edict from the Scottish government that new trains and current stock due for repaint will henceforth be in ScotRail colours so won't be repainted every time the franchise passes to another operator.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Scotrail is branded using a Scottish Government livery and brand, any operator taking on the TOC has to use the same one. I think that's a good idea, just as all London bus operators have to use the same livery.

As for First rebranding, that wouldn't surprise me. First have been reducing their corporate brand and highlighting local brands in their bus division for ages, possibly seeing the success Go Ahead have had doing the same thing. For it to be extended to the trains would make sense, especially given the brand reputation of "Worst Late Western" and "Worst Crapital Connect".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

TPE have already started that they have a new livery lined up but was holding back for the next franchise but once extended they were considering putting the 350 fleet straight into it.

First TPE are sensible in not trying to give their new rolling stock a new image livery until we actually know who the new franchise will be given to.

A wag was recently heard to venture the opinion if the Rail North franchise project was handed over to the PTE in that area, every item of rolling stock would be given new yellow and pale grey vinyls.....of the Manchester Metrolink livery..

 

[jon0844]

Think that's to do with an edict from the Scottish government that new trains and current stock due for repaint will henceforth be in ScotRail colours so won't be repainted every time the franchise passes to another operator.

I'd like to see that for the whole of the UK. I have no issue with a private operator running a specific service, but feel the public would prefer (and be less confused by) standard liveries for trains, standard colour schemes and signage at stations and so on.

There would be nothing to stop a private operator having its logo somewhere on the front/rear carriage (near the cab) or on easily changed posters inside.

(Actually, it wouldn't be that bad to still have a company name on easily removed vinyls on the whole of the train).

I'd have one design for 'normal' trains and one for Intercity services, re-introduce the yellow stripe for first class and, possibly, use the opportunity to think of other clever things like some sort of markings to signify areas for wheelchairs or bikes etc.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'd like to see that for the whole of the UK. I have no issue with a private operator running a specific service, but feel the public would prefer (and be less confused by) standard liveries for trains, standard colour schemes and signage at stations and so on.

There would be nothing to stop a private operator having its logo somewhere on the front/rear carriage (near the cab) or on easily changed posters inside.

(Actually, it wouldn't be that bad to still have a company name on easily removed vinyls on the whole of the train).

I'd have one design for 'normal' trains and one for Intercity services, re-introduce the yellow stripe for first class and, possibly, use the opportunity to think of other clever things like some sort of markings to signify areas for wheelchairs or bikes etc.

I agree. This could be helpful if TPE and Northern Merge with TPE stock taking on a different colour scheme and branding.

 

[507 001]

Think that's to do with an edict from the Scottish government that new trains and current stock due for repaint will henceforth be in ScotRail colours so won't be repainted every time the franchise passes to another operator.

I'd like to see that for the whole of the UK. I have no issue with a private operator running a specific service, but feel the public would prefer (and be less confused by) standard liveries for trains, standard colour schemes and signage at stations and so on.

There would be nothing to stop a private operator having its logo somewhere on the front/rear carriage (near the cab) or on easily changed posters inside.

(Actually, it wouldn't be that bad to still have a company name on easily removed vinyls on the whole of the train).

I'd have one design for 'normal' trains and one for Intercity services, re-introduce the yellow stripe for first class and, possibly, use the opportunity to think of other clever things like some sort of markings to signify areas for wheelchairs or bikes etc.

I agree.
The only problem I can think of is when you get people with TOC specific tickets, I.e. LM only, getting on other TOC's services because they didn't see the logo/couldn't tell.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Southern's red stripes beside the door on electrostars for Bikes/Wheelchairs works well

 

[jon0844]

Southern's red stripes beside the door on electrostars for Bikes/Wheelchairs works well

As long as it's standardised, such that you could go anywhere in the UK and know what's what (rather than needing to know what each TOC does).

 

[Zoe]

I'd like to see that for the whole of the UK. I have no issue with a private operator running a specific service, but feel the public would prefer (and be less confused by) standard liveries for trains, standard colour schemes and signage at stations and so on.

So you'd include NI Railways in this standard livery scheme?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I wonder how many people have tried to use a Southern DaySave on a FCC service, on a Southern livery 319?

 

[jon0844]

So you'd include NI Railways in this standard livery scheme?

Why not? And why not Scotland too? (That's assuming it doesn't vote for independence).

I admit I don't know much about how things run in NI, so if we have to stick to England and Wales for now, so be it.

 

[nrturner]

My theory, based on nothing but my own guesswork, is that DfT may have asked FGW to use a more generic livery for any trains that require a repaint, since it's a short contract to last until re-franchising. A bit like East Coast and the generic livery that the 700s will have.

 

[jon0844]

Isn't FGW now on a management contract, and FCC about to go the same way for a while - hence the new CapitalConnect livery (and the name is presumably just stuck on to the grey/silver trains so easily changed at any time)?

The whole franchising thing is a bit of a mess at the moment, but given so many franchises are due soon - and the plan is for longer ones - I'd really, really like for the Government to use this opportunity to start doing away with letting operators brand trains/stations/posters/signs and go for a uniform, BR-style, identity.

This is NOT the same as suggesting renationalisation.

You have to start somewhere, so let this be the beginning (crosses fingers!).

 

[VP185]

The FGW Turbos when they go through works are to have all vinyl livery removed as this is apparently causing damage to the bodywork of the train.

First technically didn't get a franchise extension as such. The current franchise is being run as a 'management contract' and that, in the opinion of several people, is why 'First' name might be dropped. There was rumour at the time the set going through works would receive an all over Grey colour scheme as specified by the DfT but that rumour seems to died a death.
I suppose specifying a base colour for all franchises would save the government a few quid when the whole system is re-nationalised!!!!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The whole franchising thing is a bit of a mess at the moment, but given so many franchises are due soon - and the plan is for longer ones - I'd really, really like for the Government to use this opportunity to start doing away with letting operators brand trains/stations/posters/signs and go for a uniform, BR-style, identity.

Branding for ECML (the future East Coast operator) will be up to the bidders.
All costs are down to the bidder.
No specific DfT brand is specified.

from DfT ECML Prospectus
Bidders will be encouraged to propose solutions that minimise the transitional
costs at the end of the franchise. For example bidders may propose a modular
brand approach whereby the parent company name can be removed in isolation
from trains and stations leaving the remainder of the brand identity in place.

 

[YorkshireBear]

With the ECML doesn't the franchise have to offer the brand at a reasonable price to the successor?

 

[thedbdiboy]

Given that virtually everything else they do is regulated, what colour they paint their trains is about the only thing that's left up to the TOCs these days.

The FGW HSTs have been reliveried so many times since privatisation I'm surprised that they're still in gauge - if they peel enough vinyls off I think it still says 'Great Western' under there somewhere...

 

[VP185]

The last paint job the FGW HSTs had was done good & proper which is why they're still in quite good nick and are easier to keep clean. Very little corrosion is evident on the bodywork. The same can't be said for the Greater Anglia MkIII's which looks like NX opted to paint over the rust!

 

[maniacmartin]

Southern's red stripes beside the door on electrostars for Bikes/Wheelchairs works well

I live in south London and I never knew of this red stripe. So, I'd say it's not working well.