First Greater Glasgow

[christopherrfc]

Night buses are returning from the 18th of June

Forthcoming Timetables & Service Information

From Sunday 5th February, a selection of changes will be in place across our network. These changes will allow us to offer a more consistent service across the city for our customers. Designed to release driver resource, to allow us to help improve reliability and performance, we are continuing...

www.firstbus.co.uk

From Saturday 18th June (AM), night bus services will be reinstated.​

Please see details of service revisions and timetable information below.

Service	Change	Timetable
Night Service	Currently Suspended -From Saturday 18th June - night bus services will resume N2 Easterhouse N2 Faifley N6 Calderwood N6 Mountblow N9 Paisley N18 Greenhills N38 Newton Mearns N57 Pollok N60 Drumchapel N240 Cleland N267 Hillhouse	Click timetables below (from 17th June onwards) Timetable (N2 Easterhouse) Timetable (N2 Faifley) Timetable (N6 Calderwood) Timetable (N6 Mountblow) Timetable (N9 Paisley) Timetable (N18 Greenhills) Timetable (N38 Newton Mearns) Timetable (N57 Pollock) Timetable (N60- Drumchapel) Timetable (N240 Cleland) Timetable (N267 Hillhouse

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Yes most people do

If people did know then there wouldn't be passengers waiting in the interchange for the 34 to get to the hospital while the McGill and stagecoach buses go past unused

 

[scosutsut]

Night buses are returning from the 18th of June

Forthcoming Timetables & Service Information

From Sunday 5th February, a selection of changes will be in place across our network. These changes will allow us to offer a more consistent service across the city for our customers. Designed to release driver resource, to allow us to help improve reliability and performance, we are continuing...

www.firstbus.co.uk

Seems a bit off if they can't even cover the day runs properly?

 

[PaulMc7]

Seems a bit off if they can't even cover the day runs properly?

Money plus a lot of people have been asking for them back since they got suspended. It's not right as you say but expected tbh. I feel like the changes from Sunday are bizarrely minimal too given the cancellations out of Caley on a day to day basis

 

[Jordan Adam]

Seems a bit off if they can't even cover the day runs properly?

It'll be easier to cover the night runs as some drivers will be attracted by the higher hourly rate.

 

[PaulMc7]

It'll be easier to cover the night runs as some drivers will be attracted by the higher hourly rate.

Almost like that's a sign to up their normal hourly rates more and improve conditions. Do both and First won't have any problems keeping drivers. Unlike other areas, getting them in here doesn't seem so bad and I see plenty of different faces but keeping them still seems an awfully difficult thing. I'm not saying it's all First's fault but they do definitely need to do more from a management of people point of view

 

[Jordan Adam]

Almost like that's a sign to up their normal hourly rates more and improve conditions. Do both and First won't have any problems keeping drivers. Unlike other areas, getting them in here doesn't seem so bad and I see plenty of different faces but keeping them still seems an awfully difficult thing. I'm not saying it's all First's fault but they do definitely need to do more from a management of people point of view

Hourly rates have been significantly increased, but that only means the night bus hourly rates get increased further to compensate.

 

[PaulMc7]

Hourly rates have been significantly increased, but that only means the night bus hourly rates get increased further to compensate.

They have but realistically you need £14-15 and great conditions with what the job involves especially the public side of it. It doesn't need to damage the bottom line either. Adjustments to services can compensate so services are only increased when they need to be. I'd rather have an every 15 mins service with no buses missing than every 10-12 mins with a lottery of whether it will run or not like I do with the 2 these days

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

They have but realistically you need £14-15 and great conditions with what the job involves especially the public side of it.

But realistically where are you going to find the extra £1-2 per hour per driver to fund this?

 

[PaulMc7]

But realistically where are you going to find the extra £1-2 per hour per driver to fund this?

Glasgow has the profitabililty to fund it quite easily plus if you make the network more reliable it may attract more passengers creating more of an income.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Glasgow has the profitabililty to fund it quite easily plus if you make the network more reliable it may attract more passengers creating more of an income.

So you want to increase driver wages by £2 per hour. Let's say there are 400 shifts at Caledonia per weekday, with an average paid time of 10 hours, and there are approximately 260 weekdays in a year. 400x10x260x2 = £2,080,000 increase per annum. That's just for one depot and for weekdays only!

The latest set of accounts for First Glasgow No.1 in the period 2020/1 reveal a net profit of £3,963,000. Granted that included six months of lockdown, but even taking that into account I'm not sure how you can say Glasgow "easily" has the profitability to fund a wage increase of £2/hr, and cover all other operating costs whilst maintaining a profit.

I'm sure there are some commercial experts who could go into a lot more depth, and produce more accurate calculations than this though!

 

[PaulMc7]

So you want to increase driver wages by £2 per hour. Let's say there are 400 shifts at Caledonia per weekday, with an average paid time of 10 hours, and there are approximately 260 weekdays in a year. 400x10x260x2 = £2,080,000 increase per annum. That's just for one depot and for weekdays only!

The latest set of accounts for First Glasgow No.1 in the period 2020/1 reveal a net profit of £3,963,000. Granted that included six months of lockdown, but even taking that into account I'm not sure how you can say Glasgow "easily" has the profitability to fund a wage increase of £2/hr, and cover all other operating costs whilst maintaining a profit.

I'm sure there are some commercial experts who could go into a lot more depth, and produce more accurate calculations than this though!

Take it from someone who studied accounts and business like me. All the current situation is doing is turning people away from using the bus which is damaging the bottom line as time goes on. It is a big hit but it's a bigger revenue protector for the future by having actual reliability in place and less cancellations

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Take it from someone who studied accounts and business like me.

Funnily enough, so do I!

It is a big hit but it's a bigger revenue protector for the future by having actual reliability in place and less cancellations

I'm talking about your proposed wage increase for drivers, not reducing timetables to provide a more reliable albeit less-frequent service, the latter which I agree with.

 

[PaulMc7]

Funnily enough, so do I!

I'm talking about your proposed wage increase for drivers, not reducing timetables to provide a more reliable albeit less-frequent service, the latter which I agree with.

If you do the wage increases and improve conditions you'll have the drivers to avoid more cancellations therefore increasing the likelihood of people actually using the buses

 

[lastbus]

Hourly rates have been significantly increased, but that only means the night bus hourly rates get increased further to compensate.

There is no night rate at First Glasgow.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

There is no night rate at First Glasgow.

Correct

They have but realistically you need £14-15 and great conditions with what the job involves especially the public side of it. It doesn't need to damage the bottom line either. Adjustments to services can compensate so services are only increased when they need to be. I'd rather have an every 15 mins service with no buses missing than every 10-12 mins with a lottery of whether it will run or not like I do with the 2 these days

I agree to some extent.

I assume what your meaning is that if you offer a 10 minute service to people verses a 15 minute service, the 15 minute service would be saving money whilst still trying to carry the same amount of people and theoretically taking the same revenue?

If so and that is what you are meaning then quite frankly the mandate the company has had for some years now of electrification from here on out as well as lack of more drivers is the biggest problem here.

Not that electric bus technology won’t improve but it’s problematic, I feel perhaps we are moving towards this a little to quickly.

the 1st thing is that electric buses do not have the electric range for a full 15-18hr day of use on many routes in Glasgow and also the proviso that the 2 and 3 are still apparently gaining Yutong single deckers whilst still trying to keep frequencies lowered but carry significant loads especially given severe reliability issues, it’s shambolic.

It’s unworkable to a great extent and severely is not a sustainable approach, it’s that simple,

…

Do you know what Glasgow really needs right now? Frequencies being kept at a Saturday timetables-level almost entirely permanently, further to this whilst operating tri-axle XLBs on core busy routes like the 61 & 75 with 2-axle doubles on the likes of the 2 & 7.

 

[PaulMc7]

Correct


I agree to some extent.

I assume what your meaning is that if you offer a 10 minute service to people verses a 15 minute service, the 15 minute service would be saving money whilst still trying to carry the same amount of people and theoretically taking the same revenue?

If so and that is what you are meaning then quite frankly the mandate the company has had for some years now of electrification from here on out as well as lack of more drivers is the biggest problem here.

Not that electric bus technology won’t improve but it’s problematic, I feel perhaps we are moving towards this a little to quickly.

the 1st thing is that electric buses do not have the electric range for a full 15-18hr day of use on many routes in Glasgow and also the proviso that the 2 and 3 are still apparently gaining Yutong single deckers whilst still trying to keep frequencies lowered but carry significant loads especially given severe reliability issues, it’s shambolic.

It’s unworkable to a great extent and severely is not a sustainable approach, it’s that simple,

…

Do you know what Glasgow really needs right now? Frequencies being kept at a Saturday timetables-level almost entirely permanently, further to this whilst operating tri-axle XLBs on core busy routes like the 61 & 75 with 2-axle doubles on the likes of the 2 & 7.

I do fully agree with you regarding going electric to be honest. It does feel like a big dive bomb straight into it to be seen as enviromentally friendly and get good press from somewhere for once. There are a lot of buses in the fleet on their last few years of expected operating given that even 07 plates are now 15 years old. I just hope technology can move faster than time or it could be tricky to get things sorted

 

[Stan_Butler]

Does anyone know if the 21 will be returning to Blantyre at the 12th June service changes?

 

[lastbus]

Does anyone know if the 21 will be returning to Blantyre at the 12th June service changes?

It’s returning to Blantyre in July once the tendered services stop.

 

[PaulMc7]

The interesting thing with the 21 is that from a dead mileage point of view Blantyre to the city centre to start isn't actually that different to Blantyre to Gardenhall. How is the driver situation at Blantyre compared to the rest of the network? I've not really been in South or North Lanarkshire other than Rutherglen and East Kilbride lately.

 

[Albaman]

The interesting thing with the 21 is that from a dead mileage point of view Blantyre to the city centre to start isn't actually that different to Blantyre to Gardenhall. How is the driver situation at Blantyre compared to the rest of the network? I've not really been in South or North Lanarkshire other than Rutherglen and East Kilbride lately.

Obviously I don't know what the situation will be from 12 June, but previously when Blantyre operated the 21, the early morning journeys which started from Glasgow were operated by Caledonia.Similarly, the late evening Cathkin terminating services were operated Caledonia.

Interested to read that the 21 will be transferred back to Blantyre in July. I am sure that there was a " bothy" to enable drivers to take their rest break near the Whirlies roundabout and was used by drivers from both the 21 and 18. I am curious if this facility still exists or will it be re-instated? Alternatively, will drivers have to travel to and from Blantyre depot to have rest and refreshment?

 

[PaulMc7]

Obviously I don't know what the situation will be from 12 June, but previously when Blantyre operated the 21, the early morning journeys which started from Glasgow were operated by Caledonia.Similarly, the late evening Cathkin terminating services were operated Caledonia.

Interested to read that the 21 will be transferred back to Blantyre in July. I am sure that there was a " bothy" to enable drivers to take their rest break near the Whirlies roundabout and was used by drivers from both the 21 and 18. I am curious if this facility still exists or will it be re-instated? Alternatively, will drivers have to travel to and from Blantyre depot to have rest and refreshment?

I'd imagine it's still there given that the 18 changes there and it would create all sorts of issues if it wasn't because you'd need very long breaks to guarantee drivers could get back to the Whirlies to swap back on after their breaks

 

[route101]

Obviously I don't know what the situation will be from 12 June, but previously when Blantyre operated the 21, the early morning journeys which started from Glasgow were operated by Caledonia.Similarly, the late evening Cathkin terminating services were operated Caledonia.

Interested to read that the 21 will be transferred back to Blantyre in July. I am sure that there was a " bothy" to enable drivers to take their rest break near the Whirlies roundabout and was used by drivers from both the 21 and 18. I am curious if this facility still exists or will it be re-instated? Alternatively, will drivers have to travel to and from Blantyre depot to have rest and refreshment?

I remember the first city to East Kilbride 21 bus went on to operate the first East Kilbride to city centre 31 service. 3

 

[PaulMc7]

I always wondered this given that Stagecoach say 3 months for training a driver. How long does it take at First here and does it differ from depot to depot? Also is that part of the problem with the shortage currently?

 

[92002]

I had used checked First's journey planner and used Traveline Scotland which advised me to use the 75 at 1140 and then get the 60 from Cowcaddens around 1215 in order for a journey up to Clydebank, Waited on 75 at Milton and 1140 service didn't turn up, so decided to walk to Lambhill and get the 8 from there to Maryhill and catch the 60 further up Maryhill at 1230.

Alas no 1230 60 turned up either and didnt arrive until 1250, a guy who was stood with me at the bus stop waiting on the 60 said he had waited about an hour before the bus came, and several hours the other night before someone came to pick him up.

It really is a roulette just now with public transport right now with this new temporary timetable with Scotrail right now or using buses that may or may not turn up and arent much better than the train either at the moment when it comes to services in the evening. It is all really a bit ridiculous getting.

Waited on a 60 on Tursday night around 1900. So 2 services missing. After about 29 minutes of the second missing service a not in service appeared and took the Clydebank direction. So decided more than an hour was long enough and got a taxi.
Since the 60 went to half hourly or basicalky

In terms of profitable routes, one thing I've noticed is how many 60/60As and 61s seem to be missing each day. Given that large parts of the route are incredibly well used I'm amazed that there's never any priority to these services whatsoever. A service change to address what is currently missing is badly needed soon though.

Unfortunately for there to be a reliable network with low cancellations I do see a lot of cuts being needed still. I do feel that Glasgow has seen more new drivers than most of Scotland given that I've seen loads of them but there's definitely underlying issues with keeping drivers.

Management is always a problem because you very often find in all industries that people get into positions in management for being good at the job and not being good with people which is something that badly needs to change especially as it's 2022 and people will quit more than ever if they're mistreated

Waited on a 60 on Tursday night around 1900. So 2 services missing. After about 29 minutes of the second missing service a not in service appeared and took the Clydebank direction. So decided more than an hour was long enough and got a taxi.
Since the 60 went to half hourly or basicalky

Since the 60 went to half hourly or basically its Sunday service midweek its reliability has been diabolical.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 60/60A from what I've seen in the morning peak but quickly go downhill after it. Very similar to the 57/57A too.

Is there a thing at Scotstoun where if you are a new start your first route is the 2? My bus seems to have drivers for at most 2-3 days then it is someone new. I mean, I'm not complaining as it means I won't have the issues of the last week or 2 with buses running only to Scotstoun or not at all

 

[92002]

The 60/60A from what I've seen in the morning peak but quickly go downhill after it. Very similar to the 57/57A too.

Is there a thing at Scotstoun where if you are a new start your first route is the 2? My bus seems to have drivers for at most 2-3 days then it is someone new. I mean, I'm not complaining as it means I won't have the issues of the last week or 2 with buses running only to Scotstoun or not at all

Since the 60 change to half hourly most services or those that actually turn up seem to be Caledonia operated. Occasionally even an e400. Or a mixture of 38 or 75 branded.

However if they don't turn up passengers are going to go elsewhere.

Looked at the First journey planner the other day for a Journey from Clydebank to the City. It even recommended an Avondale to Hardgate and a Citybus to Central Station.

Have they just admitted defeat with the 60.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 60/60A is very popular at the east end at least and sees quite heavy loads of passengers. It gets a real mix of whatever Caledonia has. Anything from B7TLs/B9TLs/B7RLEs and the new E200EVs/E400EVs.

 

[PaulMc7]

Since the 60 change to half hourly most services or those that actually turn up seem to be Caledonia operated. Occasionally even an e400. Or a mixture of 38 or 75 branded.

However if they don't turn up passengers are going to go elsewhere.

Looked at the First journey planner the other day for a Journey from Clydebank to the City. It even recommended an Avondale to Hardgate and a Citybus to Central Station.

Have they just admitted defeat with the 60.

I'd be shocked if they had to be honest given how busy it can be certainly from Maryhill eastbound and even Drumchapel to Clydebank can be very busy. Even if they extended the M60 to Maryhill from Clydebank and started it earlier and finished it later it would help. Realistically the 60A needs cut back to Milngavie to City Centre to help a bit. Most of the east end part of the route has other options anyway plus if the 60 still ran at that end it's fine.

First need to replan a lot of services to be honest. The whole network needs redone for it to be workable with little to no cancellations. I'm not saying go full Simplicity again but by doing something like that you could probably find routes that cover more with less buses required.

 

[GaryBrown156]

Does anyone know when the last 2 into town departs Faifley at tonight please?.
Having to make an unplanned journey over that way later due to a bereavement and as its not a service I generally catch that often I am unfamiliar with the timetable. If I'm heading that way I usually catch Citybus service 17 but I need something which runs a bit later. It's been a while but iirc the last 2 into town from Faifley is/was around 11ish but I don't know if that's still the case with the service reductions. I tried looking on the First Glasgow website for timetable information but it isn't showing for some reason.

Thanks in advance.