First Greater Glasgow

[lastbus]

Surely additional funding would be required to support frequency increases, with the revised social distancing measures doubling capacity i don't see why frequency increases would be needed. On the whole services are still coping fine.

Are you saying this from viewing capacity’s on an app?

 

[christopherrfc]

Some services being increased

Forthcoming Timetables and Service Information | Greater Glasgow | First Bus

The following increased services will operate from Sunday 19th July until further notice If your service is not listed in the table below, it will continue to operate it's current timetable. You can find our full list of current services here.

www.firstgroup.com

 

[sannox]

In Glasgow, there have always been 2 things that have hurt the bus industry for me and those are First being ultra complacent due to very little competition from other bus companies and congestion problems never ever being dealt with properly. The lack of consultation from First here causes a lot of negative backlash too although the headlines in the media and what councillors tend to hit out with on social media add fuel to a very heated fire.

SPT services, in general, aren't greatly used either so I do question why some of them run. The funding put into those could generally be used to better effect but it never ever happens because nobody involves the public in communication or asks what they truly want in a service and where they'd like it to go. The whole system needs a massive revamp and I feel like First could set an example here and improve their image but the recent cuts despite being unfortunate due to Covid19 don't fill me with any hope given that areas are being cut off and in those areas, it's mainly those in most need that are losing out. Funding based on concessionary travel being boosted could help though

The major thing that hurts buses in Glasgow, which is the strength of the rail system. Glasgow has a strong 'metro' rail service plus the subway connections and this is often cheaper than the bus network. Compare a journey from a busy local area such as Partick or Queens Park to Glasgow. Buses are £2.50 single / £4.70 all day? A return train fare off peak is £2, peak £2.90! The subway is £1.75 / £3.30 return or £4.20 all day. This takes away substantial patronage over say a city like Edinburgh that doesn't have this system.

Increasingly bus fares have looked poor value - especially if you travel in groups. A uber or private hire fares are very low and can be cheaper on many journeys if you have 2 or 3 people- compare say Shawlands into City Centre. £6 door to door!

SPT's sole aim is maintain coverage as cheaply as possible so areas aren't busless, rather than actually focusing on developing 'proper' routes and encourage additional patronage. As such many don't seem to carry many passengers. The West Renfrewshire coverage is typical of that where there still is coverage but frequency is poor and important links have been severed to save cash. It would be possible, if you had control of the whole network, to adapt many routes into something more useful but that would take cash.

 

[PaulMc7]

The major thing that hurts buses in Glasgow, which is the strength of the rail system. Glasgow has a strong 'metro' rail service plus the subway connections and this is often cheaper than the bus network. Compare a journey from a busy local area such as Partick or Queens Park to Glasgow. Buses are £2.50 single / £4.70 all day? A return train fare off peak is £2, peak £2.90! The subway is £1.75 / £3.30 return or £4.20 all day. This takes away substantial patronage over say a city like Edinburgh that doesn't have this system.

Increasingly bus fares have looked poor value - especially if you travel in groups. A uber or private hire fares are very low and can be cheaper on many journeys if you have 2 or 3 people- compare say Shawlands into City Centre. £6 door to door!

SPT's sole aim is maintain coverage as cheaply as possible so areas aren't busless, rather than actually focusing on developing 'proper' routes and encourage additional patronage. As such many don't seem to carry many passengers. The West Renfrewshire coverage is typical of that where there still is coverage but frequency is poor and important links have been severed to save cash. It would be possible, if you had control of the whole network, to adapt many routes into something more useful but that would take cash.

Yeah, I love when people compare Edinburgh to Glasgow when it comes to transport and what you've mentioned is exactly why I don't take comparisons seriously. The 2 cities are nothing alike and as you say the train and subway just win out in some areas. With the subway especially the likes of Hillhead, Kinning Park and Shields Road have decimated bus services in those areas. I've used the 4/4A and 6/6A a lot over the years and the drop in passenger numbers even at peak is quite incredible. At times when I've made peak journeys on the 6, I could have 5/6 seats to myself in recent times but even back when it was the 66 this was never possible. Yeah taxis will probably continue to kill off the night bus scene in Glasgow because First decreasing prices is one of the least likely things ever to occur

 

[Jordan Adam]

Much of what i thought, nothing major. Most routes stay on the existing frequency just with extra morning/late runs and a better weekend service.

 

[739678]

So that's the 16 and 64 back to their normal service level as of Monday...
And on a tangent, as of today the Subway is back to its normal opening hours and frequency...

 

[PaulMc7]

Interesting to note that the M60 has a better Saturday frequency now with the timetable change than what it did pre-COVID. Clydebank Shopping Centre being open again probably plays a massive part in that though especially as the 60 is still reduced in frequency

 

[lastbus]

Much of what i thought, nothing major. Most routes stay on the existing frequency just with extra morning/late runs and a better weekend service.

Don’t know which routes you are looking at as there is a big increase on a few routes.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Don’t know which routes you are looking at as there is a big increase on a few routes.

I never said there wasn't any increases, i just said that it's not anything major and most of the existing frequencies remain, it's not as if they're going back to a usual weekday level of service. Nor would i expect them to at this stage.

 

[PaulMc7]

Would think it'll be closer to late September/Early October by the time we see most services running normal frequencies tbh. I know my sister's uni(Strathclyde) isn't going back to normal immediately and she doesn't start til mid September again. I'd imagine every college/uni would be the same too

 

[overthewater]

The full service has to be back for the schools and colleges returning around 11th august.

 

[PaulMc7]

Only way even a full timetable would work for the schools down my way is if social distancing goes completely and funding continues. If it stays as it is the 1s and 2s especially would be max capacity before they got near my stop

 

[smtglasgow]

The full service has to be back for the schools and colleges returning around 11th august.

Unless the government are going to be paying for a full service, it’s doubtful there’s any need for the full 10 minute frequency all day in August. It’s going to be a long slog to get back to anywhere near pre-Covid passenger numbers. Yes, you’ll need the capacity for the schools, but can you seriously see a significant uplift in off-peak numbers by next month? The universities operating at a reduced level (online lectures, in-person seminars seems normal) plus few, if any, international students is going to be a big hit for all operators.

 

[XAM2175]

In Glasgow, there have always been 2 things that have hurt the bus industry for me and those are First being ultra complacent due to very little competition from other bus companies and congestion problems never ever being dealt with properly.

I agree completely, and would add some of my major problems with First here in pre-COVID times:

1. Poor punctuality, slow journeys, and (on high-frequency routes) ridiculous bunching - caused in no small part by traffic congestion outside of First's control, I grant. At the same time though I really question if they couldn't help themselves by splitting the trunk cross-town routes, to allow better regulation of the service and reduce the propagation of delays. The loading and unloading processes need to be faster too; I'd specify a second set of doors on new double-deck vehicles for a start.
2. Significant disparity between the quality of their promotional communications and their operational communications. "We're giving you new buses!" gets full-colour vinyls and full-colour posters and banners on the website, and the routes themselves now have fancy special liveries, but information of genuine use to passengers like services alterations and diversions is poorly circulated, of limited utility, and sometimes incomplete and/or contradicted by other communications. Diversion notices should have maps, and a clear identification of which stops are not being served and which stops, if any, are being additionally served.
3. The ticketing system "punishes" connecting journeys by offering only single-trip tickets and periodicals - thus a single journey involving two trips by bus is possible only with two single tickets, or a day ticket, and that's before going anywhere near the lack of integration with other bus providers and other modes of transport. There are also a number of unfriendly and poorly-noted complications, like the fact that the Airport Express open return can't be sold on regular services meaning that a return trip to the airport that starts by bus requires you to either already hold a periodical, or buy a single into town first.
4. The fact that the service is commercial and in competition with other bus providers and other modes of transport, rather than complimenting them. For example;

The major thing that hurts buses in Glasgow, which is the strength of the rail system. Glasgow has a strong 'metro' rail service plus the subway connections and this is often cheaper than the bus network. Compare a journey from a busy local area such as Partick or Queens Park to Glasgow. Buses are £2.50 single / £4.70 all day? A return train fare off peak is £2, peak £2.90! The subway is £1.75 / £3.30 return or £4.20 all day.

This simply shouldn't be an observation made about a transport system in a major city. Full stop.

 

[overthewater]

Unless the government are going to be paying for a full service, it’s doubtful there’s any need for the full 10 minute frequency all day in August. It’s going to be a long slog to get back to anywhere near pre-Covid passenger numbers. Yes, you’ll need the capacity for the schools, but can you seriously see a significant uplift in off-peak numbers by next month? The universities operating at a reduced level (online lectures, in-person seminars seems normal) plus few, if any, international students is going to be a big hit for all operators.

The Full Service was supposed to have come back in with phrase 3, but it's clear the operator managed to get that curtailed. I do believe we will have to have a full service back in some form on most routes to deal with peak passengers and schools. Since first has already started taking it knife to the network I dare say we will see a few others getting the chop to allow the rest of the network to operate near 100% etc.

 

[Jordan Adam]

First are not expecting to be back on a full service until next year.

 

[overthewater]

First are not expecting to be back on a full service until next year.

That is rather worrying.

 

[PaulMc7]

Worrying but not surprising imo. Depends on just how many employers want to let their staff work from home. Will either be loads or not many. Time will tell.

Also think First will suffer a bit from how the cuts that are happening have came into public knowledge too. It's still pretty shady and if people aren't confident that their service is completely fine then they'll be less likely to use buses at all. I don't blame them for that either tbh. First just need to come out quickly and be clear on what is going and what is staying

 

[JumpinTrainz]

This feels like a rather inappropriate time to be asking about LEZ in the middle of a global pandemic but with routes being withdrawn I get that this will free up some buses. However won’t this just allow the oldest buses to retire - Glasgow still have 33120 running around along with some ALX400s and 03/53 plate B7TLs. That’s not even before they’ve started on the ageing 54 plate B7TLs and there are PLENTY of them.

The service reductions won’t last forever but this year has been a right off with no new buses arriving of course. I wonder if they’re still planning the introduction of LEZ to be 2022 or if they’ll push it back a year.

 

[Cesarcollie]

This feels like a rather inappropriate time to be asking about LEZ in the middle of a global pandemic but with routes being withdrawn I get that this will free up some buses. However won’t this just allow the oldest buses to retire - Glasgow still have 33120 running around along with some ALX400s and 03/53 plate B7TLs. That’s not even before they’ve started on the ageing 54 plate B7TLs and there are PLENTY of them.

The service reductions won’t last forever but this year has been a right off with no new buses arriving of course. I wonder if they’re still planning the introduction of LEZ to be 2022 or if they’ll push it back a year.

In their results blurb First predict post Covid passenger numbers at 70-80 % of previous. This sort of number is backed up by various other industry experts. That is going to severely impact on services provided - anyone who thinks otherwise is going to have a nasty shock I’m afraid.... But let’s hope it’s not that bad.

 

[Jordan Adam]

This feels like a rather inappropriate time to be asking about LEZ in the middle of a global pandemic but with routes being withdrawn I get that this will free up some buses. However won’t this just allow the oldest buses to retire - Glasgow still have 33120 running around along with some ALX400s and 03/53 plate B7TLs. That’s not even before they’ve started on the ageing 54 plate B7TLs and there are PLENTY of them.

The service reductions won’t last forever but this year has been a right off with no new buses arriving of course. I wonder if they’re still planning the introduction of LEZ to be 2022 or if they’ll push it back a year.

New buses are still due, it's just been delayed, you are somewhat right in that the withdrawal of some service will allow for buses to come off, but it still wouldn't be anything significant i wouldn't think. Truth be told we don't know how things will be this time next year, however i do think this pandemic has really shaken up the industry and changed the way things will go in the future. Particularly travel patterns have changed so services need to evolve to combat this.

I can also see many services staying on a slightly reduced timetable for the foreseeable future, for example a route with a pre-covid 7/8 minute frequency could be reduced to a 10 minute frequency, and a 10 minute frequency route to a 12 minute frequency etc. This sort of change especially on longer routes can make a huge savings at an operational perspective, yet to the average passenger there wouldn't be a huge difference. For example if the 2 was to stay on a 10 minute frequency (previously 7/8 minutes) that could potentially save up to 8 buses, obviously there is a drop in overall route capacity however most services can cope with this sort of reduction fine - especially given that passenger numbers are expected to stay at under 75% until at least March 2021.

 

[route101]

Two points with buses in Glasgow, they are seen secondary to the railway services. Secondly, the commuters who use the train are working at home , so i think the bus passenger numbers have come back quicker on the buses.

Yes train is cheaper , 2.80 off peak return . Bonus railcard discount on peak fares in the summer too.

As for service levels , id rather half useable frequencies at night, if it meant every 15 mins during the day.

 

[route101]

Both I recon are on very shaky nails. If they were to withdraw the 16 the PR disaster would be spectacular.

I would recon the X8 would be next, then the X78.

Anything thats grey on the network map that's commercial is on very dangerous grounds and looking at that map, there's very little fat left to trim.....

X78 must be at risk.

31 may be quiet but id argue its case as theres no alternatives for people to use from some places.

X8 , quite well used from Pollok so its less of a risk going.

 

[route101]

I‘ve always found the X8 to be jumping especially around peak time. It’s the quickest way to Silverburn from the City Centre. Perhaps times have changed but I remember not being able to get a seat on a decker not so long ago.

I think it will stay . It was busy in peak from town.

 

[PaulMc7]

No late trains for pub-goers in Scotland until August

SCOTRAIL do not plan on running later trains until August, despite indoor bars and restaurants reopening from Wednesday, July 15.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

Will be interesting to see if this benefits First here at all if Scotrail are holding off til next month

 

[Scotrail88]

No late trains for pub-goers in Scotland until August

SCOTRAIL do not plan on running later trains until August, despite indoor bars and restaurants reopening from Wednesday, July 15.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk

Will be interesting to see if this benefits First here at all if Scotrail are holding off til next month

You do have to laugh that if bus companies said no buses after 2200 there would be uproar.

Here we have Scotrail saying skeleton after 2000 and then nothing thereafter.

At least there is at least an hourly service until last journey on most routes over the whole bus network.

 

[PaulMc7]

You do have to laugh that if bus companies said no buses after 2200 there would be uproar.

Here we have Scotrail saying skeleton after 2000 and then nothing thereafter.

At least there is at least an hourly service until last journey on most routes over the whole bus network.

Yeah all it takes is one even slight bus cut to cause bad press and tons of outrage yet the trains will probably be fine over this. I do think some bus services will increase at night but I do see most staying hourly for a while yet

 

[Volvodart]

First are not expecting to be back on a full service until next year.

The "full service" they are envisaging then (after funding ceases) is 70-80% of network miles pre-crisis levels.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Out of interest does anyone know how well the 206 does? It seems to always get a full sized single so I’m wondering if this route is safe? I’m not too familiar with Dumbarton routes?

 

[PaulMc7]

Out of interest does anyone know how well the 206 does? It seems to always get a full sized single so I’m wondering if this route is safe? I’m not too familiar with Dumbarton routes?

Not 100% sure as I don't use it an awful lot but certainly when I've used it it's been pretty busy. Would only leave the 1s in Dumbarton if that goes now