This was the response I was mentioning. Surely if it was just a simple mistake and misunderstanding no politician would waste their time writing to any bus operator about it? Will obviously keep an eye out for more to do with it though
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First Greater Glasgow
- Thread starter KGGXXXY
- Start date
This was the response I was mentioning. Surely if it was just a simple mistake and misunderstanding no politician would waste their time writing to any bus operator about it? Will obviously keep an eye out for more to do with it though
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RailUK Forums
That's pretty pathetic from First I'm not going to lie.
Scotrail88
Member
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- 21 Jul 2014
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Unless we see the actual reply - sounds like they can’t (and the M3 wouldn’t cope) with a bigger bus.
So there is every likelihood that pupils will be refused if bus is full (probably 12 seaters currently).
That sounds like the school have taken that as WILL be refused.
So there is every likelihood that pupils will be refused if bus is full (probably 12 seaters currently).
That sounds like the school have taken that as WILL be refused.
Scotrail88
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The other point here is when does a commercial operator become responsible for school transport.
Plenty of talk to support coaches for school transport and get cash but if a local service then should be provided for free.
Plenty of talk to support coaches for school transport and get cash but if a local service then should be provided for free.
I definitely think there should be more encouragement from councils for private operators to cover schools/colleges etc through subsidy. If First just made announcements public far quicker though it would probably help too. The 404 is going too and it's not been mentioned at all from First. Seen a complaint or two about it from people but nothing else other than that because people probably have no idea yet. That one will probably go down just as badly too considering the alternative is a 4A every 30 mins compared to 3 buses at the same time to cover Williamwood
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
Where is all this subsidy that you mention coming from? If only LAs had some spare cash down the side of the office chairs...
Government. In the case of the 431 you're literally talking 1 bus so it's not exactly forking out millions
I don't think there has been an instruction in Scotland that all school transport should be dedicated and not use scheduled services. This is just going to be the tip of the iceberg in the next couple of weeks as trying to mix school children who don't have to social distance with normal passengers who do is going to be impossible.
Fully agree with that tbh. I don't see social distancing going either anytime soon so if First don't handle it well with communication then this could lead to long term problems down the line for them in terms of trying to keep passengers
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
If it was going to happen then it would have already. The Government have already spent a lot of non existent money this year (cough: furlough scheme).
School children still need to distance/wear face coverings on public services, just not on dedicated school services. There's a grey area though, where school services are registered as public services. I've heard of operators splitting the vehicle into two zones (one for school children, one for "normal" passengers).
With less than a week to go it isn't that clear at all, particularly around school children on normal bus services. The guidance just issued by Argyll & Bute Council requires face masks to be worn on all school services, dedicated or otherwise. Pupils on non dedicated services should keep 1m distance from fare paying passengers but this will result in capacity issues at certain times. There are a number of First Glasgow services around Clydebank which carry reasonable numbers of school pass carrying children which are only going to need 4 or 5 regular passengers on the bus to run out of capacity.
You could fill about 4/5 M60s even if they were at the same time from what I seen while I worked in Clydebank. My 2 into Clydebank was always full with school kids too. It's going to be an absolute mess even for services operated with double deckers. The 57 springs to mind around Thornliebank from experience.
The 1s and X4 will definitely be a problem too especially for my old school St Thomas Aquinas. The 1s are chaos as it is normally in the morning as everyone walks up from Victoria Park and then the X4 going down Southbrae and Westland Drive ends up packed at school times. In normal circumstances the 1s can only be deckers for the 1C/1D and the X4 isn't even always a decker either so I don't see anything going well
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Found this while looking up a few things. Interesting to look back on what changes Simplicity involved. Hard to tell really whether the services pre-Simplicity were more efficient compared to after it and whether it was the right thing to do. Also, think the network could be due a freshen up if First finds a way to stick around for longer. Been over 7 years now since Simplicity. Could work as a way to combine services and get some buses off of the road if the frequencies even drop from 10 mins to 12/15 etc. Reliability wasn't great pre-COVID so it'll be interesting to see what it's like afterwards as that's a bigger problem with longer routes especially considering routes that aren't massive sometimes struggle in Glasgow
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
True enough but do it once, do it for all. It’s setting a precedent and the authorities know that.
I thought anyway that if you refused travel to a vulnerable minor you were in extraordinarily hot water and required some union assistance in a disciplinary if you were caught doing so. But when the bus is "full" due to social distancing capacities the bus is "full" I suppose. Hopefully the cooncil bus meets the demands and First find something bigger for that M3 journey or the driver is in a very difficult position
The funny thing for the M3 is that they can't even use a bridge or anything as an excuse for not running a decker on a bus that's 1 an hour. The only bridge I can think of on that route is at Hawthorn St but there's been plenty of 90s as double deckers over the last 12/18 months and that goes under the same bridge. The route around Wester Common and Stobhill Hospital itself is tight in places but I doubt that could even be classed as an excuse. Just seems like First having no regard for the public again that will come back to bite them
The M3 is to be operated by the electric vehicles as it’s a partnership. School children with passes are allowed to travel free on the bus as SPT pays a contract for this. First are not taking up the contract as they cannot fulfil it due to social distancing. They are not the only operator doing this. The school kids are also not banned first just cannot guarantee they will be able to travel as the bus may be full.
Then surely the common sense option would have been for First to communicate this? Seems fairly simple to me
Scotrail88
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think you Will find a further head teacher comment today which clarifies and makes it sound (without admitting it) they got the wrong end of the stick before
That's fair enough. Did seem a bit weird tbh. First's failure to communicate quickly on things does cause plenty of issues though and with politicians getting involved it never goes well because it usually just gets First more hate leading to even less bus use
Scotrail88
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The strange thing is that legally, all intentions are registered 10 weeks in advance with SPT (who are a political organisation) and operate on behalf of local authorities.
any changes are known by them and can discuss with authorities to either find funding.
any changes are known by them and can discuss with authorities to either find funding.
Stena Galloway
Member
I honestly cant see anything wrong with what First are doing here. The Government want social distancing and they also want schools to go back. School buses need to be provided till we have normality back on buses. From what ive seen First have informed the school of there decision. It has been poorly announced by the school.
It has been poorly handled by the school but First didn't do great either. 1 tweet and 1 Facebook post is pretty much all it would take to explain that routes will be tight for capacity and to pre-plan if you're sending a child to any school via First. Could have allowed for better pre-planning for parents and would probably have managed to let First dodge another negative newspaper article like the one in the Glasgow times yesterday regarding the 431 cut. I can't stand the media but I know it'll have a negative effect because even now some people still swear by everything they read in the media
Stena Galloway
Member
Let's be honest here, how many students at that school will follow First on Social media? I would say few to none. Now I bet there's far more of them following there high school on Social media. So is it not easier trying to get the biggest audience possible right away?
Was thinking more from a parents point of view tbh. All it takes is 1 or 2 parents and then info spreads like wildfire. I agree with you on students though. First's social media game and communication with the public is generally pretty shocking though
Stena Galloway
Member
100% agree with the poor communication by First. I think they have tried to communicate with the school on this though. Maybe they thought the school would send out letters to parents regarding the use of the buses just now.
Just thought I should give my impressions as a non-local of First’s Glasgow network. I’ve just been there for a few days, so just a snapshot really.
The buses around the city looked clean most of the time, and the ones I travelled on all appeared to be clean inside. Drivers largely friendly, although did have 2 unfriendly and unhelpful ones.
Although there were some quite new vehicles, the fleet did have quite a lot of older vehicles, with some very noisy Volvos. I’m usually of the opinion that as long as a bus is clean and comfortable (which they were), age doesn’t matter too much. Some Tridents were quite uncomfortable though and having really noisy Volvos probably isn’t a good image. But largely a good and well maintained fleet from what I saw though. Branded vehicles seemed to stay on their proper routes too.
This isn’t really the fault of First, but travelling around the city centre could often be quite painfully slow, with constant stop/start at traffic lights. So there could be some improvements to bus priority I think. The amount of roadworks and the expanded pavements for social distancing probably impacted my time there too.
I think the map provided by First for the Glasgow was really good, especially as it includes most routes from other operators which is rare from a commercial operator. There could be an improvement with mapping the city centre though, as I found it fairly difficult to work out where the buses stopped. Not sure of a solution though.
I was disappointed with the app. I did buy a paper day ticket on one day, which worked fine. But another day I thought I’d try buying it on the app. The app itself is good I think, clear and easy to use. In practice however, every bus I went on was unable to scan my phone properly, and I’m not sure why (you scan the QR code on the ticket on your phone, just like you have to do with the paper ticket). It seems other passengers were having this problem. Most drivers just waved me on, some had a look at it, and other drivers thought it was invalid or it was the wrong ticket with one being quite rude. So, it was a bit of a hassle, and I think that would put some passengers off using the bus again, especially if they are anxious people. I’ll use the paper one next time!
From an enthusiasts point of view, it was great to see so many older Wright vehicles, which appear to be getting rarer now. On routes 60/60A were ex-London Tridents which was good to see before they presumably go soon.
For me, it was good to see so many ‘heavyweight’ single deckers as I am not used to them in my area. The newer MMC vehicles looked impressive, but especially the route 500 airport vehicles - they looked excellent, although for obvious reasons I didn’t see anyone using them!
The buses around the city looked clean most of the time, and the ones I travelled on all appeared to be clean inside. Drivers largely friendly, although did have 2 unfriendly and unhelpful ones.
Although there were some quite new vehicles, the fleet did have quite a lot of older vehicles, with some very noisy Volvos. I’m usually of the opinion that as long as a bus is clean and comfortable (which they were), age doesn’t matter too much. Some Tridents were quite uncomfortable though and having really noisy Volvos probably isn’t a good image. But largely a good and well maintained fleet from what I saw though. Branded vehicles seemed to stay on their proper routes too.
This isn’t really the fault of First, but travelling around the city centre could often be quite painfully slow, with constant stop/start at traffic lights. So there could be some improvements to bus priority I think. The amount of roadworks and the expanded pavements for social distancing probably impacted my time there too.
I think the map provided by First for the Glasgow was really good, especially as it includes most routes from other operators which is rare from a commercial operator. There could be an improvement with mapping the city centre though, as I found it fairly difficult to work out where the buses stopped. Not sure of a solution though.
I was disappointed with the app. I did buy a paper day ticket on one day, which worked fine. But another day I thought I’d try buying it on the app. The app itself is good I think, clear and easy to use. In practice however, every bus I went on was unable to scan my phone properly, and I’m not sure why (you scan the QR code on the ticket on your phone, just like you have to do with the paper ticket). It seems other passengers were having this problem. Most drivers just waved me on, some had a look at it, and other drivers thought it was invalid or it was the wrong ticket with one being quite rude. So, it was a bit of a hassle, and I think that would put some passengers off using the bus again, especially if they are anxious people. I’ll use the paper one next time!
From an enthusiasts point of view, it was great to see so many older Wright vehicles, which appear to be getting rarer now. On routes 60/60A were ex-London Tridents which was good to see before they presumably go soon.
For me, it was good to see so many ‘heavyweight’ single deckers as I am not used to them in my area. The newer MMC vehicles looked impressive, but especially the route 500 airport vehicles - they looked excellent, although for obvious reasons I didn’t see anyone using them!
Yeah that would make the most sense. Seems the most sensible reason although it also highlights the issue with not having social media staff that are local.
Glasgow City Centre needs a full revamp in terms of traffic lights etc. Council really don't seem that interested in doing anything properly about the issues of congestion though.
The app is something I'm still so undecided about tbh. Sometimes it works perfectly but then sometimes tickets just don't scan and buses are listed as "due" but clearly go through portals and vanish. Remember once with an 8 I waited 55 mins at Springburn and on the app it said due the entire time.
The cleaning standards have definitely been upped massively because of Covid so hopefully it continues after this is over. The only buses I really don't like are the Streetlites because they rattle a lot and the low height E400s because it feels like you're sliding off of the seats constantly.
Customer service and social media use in general will always be First's weak areas which is a shame because when you're serving the public it has to be top class.
I do feel like the network needs a bit of a refresh in order to soften the blow of Covid as I've suggested before with service merging in order to cover more areas on a route. Keeping precovid levels on a lot of routes probably won't be needed so small frequency drops with new connections provided could save further in terms of buses. Would also be handy in helping to oust some old fleet with the low emission zone still to consider
The app is something I'm still so undecided about tbh. Sometimes it works perfectly but then sometimes tickets just don't scan and buses are listed as "due" but clearly go through portals and vanish. Remember once with an 8 I waited 55 mins at Springburn and on the app it said due the entire time.
The cleaning standards have definitely been upped massively because of Covid so hopefully it continues after this is over. The only buses I really don't like are the Streetlites because they rattle a lot and the low height E400s because it feels like you're sliding off of the seats constantly.
Customer service and social media use in general will always be First's weak areas which is a shame because when you're serving the public it has to be top class.
I do feel like the network needs a bit of a refresh in order to soften the blow of Covid as I've suggested before with service merging in order to cover more areas on a route. Keeping precovid levels on a lot of routes probably won't be needed so small frequency drops with new connections provided could save further in terms of buses. Would also be handy in helping to oust some old fleet with the low emission zone still to consider
Zakforbes4
Member
McColls could bank on this and run there bit of the M3 at those times with there ALX400s