If they were being transferred to another DFT TOC then perhaps. However neither First or ScotRail fall into that category.
350/2s for First Stirling was comprehensively rubbished back in December. I’m sure @Clarence Yard will confirm.
Haymarket could be an option. Only other one I can think of is Inverness which would work for ScotRail but is almost certainly too far north for Lumo.
That’s ridiculous, especially in the case of the Royal Mail paths which will never run again as the units have been scrapped. DB should be forced to either use electric traction in the paths they have electric rights for or hand back their rights. Hopefully GBR once Network Rail is absorbed into them will sort that out.
Commendable optimism from First Group that they'll have 222s this year. Latest attributable comment we have on the 810s is based on a Facebook post by Neil O'Brien, the MP for Harborough & Wigston.
The general consensus from what I hope are informed commentators here is that the 810 programme is not going well, and that the the 222 fleet is intensively utilized / over-stretched. This means handing any 222s over to First or Scotrail before the 810s are match fit could have a pretty much instant, public and painful impact on EMR's intercity operation. So if you're thinking Autumn, I would suggest imagining dark December days just before the winter solstice. Or he may have meant Autumn 2026.
Post in class 810 thread
Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
Only going by what I’ve been told from my source, which was the date they had been told for handover (June), would not happen, but as we all know, many people say different things, or have not even been updated with the latest news. Thoroughly fair comment, old chap, and always good to compare...www.railforums.co.uk
The MML Intercity service won’t be allowed to collapse for political reasons. If the 810s get delayed yet again there would likely be government intervention to extend EMR’s lease on the 222s and compensation paid to ScotRail and/or Lumo, hopefully with Hitachi getting the bill swing as it’s their late deliveries that would cause this to happen.
Is this confirmed?
Considering the wires don’t even reach Leicester, I’d expect it to be Lumo, assuming the poster in question was correct.
ScotRail is still public sector even though it’s devolved. That will have some clout.
So I'll turn that argument back on you and ask why should the people and government of Scotland be deprived of new (to them) units just because EMR/Hitachi are failing to introduce their new units when they expected?
See below
This is the definitive answer from a credible source so not sure why the 350/2 rumour is still being given any credence.
Alstom at Wembley would seem logical.
Because the service doesn’t fall apart in Scotland if the ‘new’ fleet is delayed as the HSTs can stay for longer, whereas it does fall apart on the MML unless either the 222s stay there longer or the 810s suddenly enter service en masse.
First will have no control over when or if they get the 222s, that will be down to the leasing company.
First do have some control - if they don't insist on taking them then the leasing company are less likely to take them away from EMR
There was a lot of local opposition when a depot was proposed near Stirling prior to the introduction of the 385s.
why should the midland mainline be left with no trains just to the people of Scotland can have some slightly newer trains slightly earlier?
I'm assuming that said vehicles couldn't be used with 220/221s due to different TMS etc (and probably ownership)?
Correct on both counts.
There are no contracts signed with ScotRail.
But the training Academy are currently "Scotrailising" class 222 traction manuals. Hmmmmm
Oh I'm well aware advanced discussions have been had and I doubt many, if anyone, read the thinly veiled expression for interest as referring to anything other than the 222s; the point remains - only LUMO/First Stirling Trains have reached the contract stage.
Why should the MML suffer because ScotRail is so inept that it can't get trains working reliably (that have worked reliably for years elsewhere) that it signed up to until 2030.
Because it's a national network not a national free for all. The damage to the industry of just cancelling all MML intercity services would be enormous. Financial and reputational. If we were talking a few units (the LUMO ones) this is differently as it will lead to disruption rather than outright cancellation of the entire service.
You're a bit late. That point was previously made.
I’m not quite sure you can say this honestly unless you’re at Director level or above in Scotrail or indeed the leasing company. There will be commercial sensitivity involved in the contract process, which all but those directly involved are not privy to Until such times as an official statement is made.
Yes please!
The trains are privately owned by a Rosco, if you owned them and Lumo said we want them for X years and prepared to pay £Y, then MML come along and say can we have them for an unknown number of weeks (at a price which might not match £Y) which offer would you take.
A diesel train is still greener than a car. But yes. It's ironic.
They are fitted with Stadlers own multiple working system.