First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[jammy36]

there is also stuff like the Eden park and ride on top, assuming that still runs

Yes, that still runs - at least three vehicles in use daily there last week.

 

[cnjb8]

Has this not happened to First in Cornwall before when Western Greyhound was winning many of the contracts? Makes me think First can survive with Truronian, Flixbus, Truro P&R, and the commercial network. I’m not doubting there will need to be depot closures and PVR reductions though!

 

[henryb]

Has this not happened to First in Cornwall before when Western Greyhound was winning many of the contracts? Makes me think First can survive with Truronian, Flixbus, Truro P&R, and the commercial network. I’m not doubting there will need to be depot closures and PVR reductions though!

There was a lot of mention of FlixBus opportunities in that article… they are going to need more than 3 buses down there to provide more jobs!

 

[Goldfish62]

I’ve calculated the PVR as 62, there is also stuff like the Eden park and ride on top, assuming that still runs?

Is probably suggest a higher spares ratio than 10% considering some services have a bespoke requirement (I.e Mousehole that seems to have 66% spares ratio at the moment)

I’d come to broadly the same sort of idea as you, just with the old solo and a couple of older E200s adding as well

The issue with the M6 is that although four Sprinters should cover based on PVR + 1 spare, First don't seem to be able to get on with them, hence retaining one Solo which should have gone. However, that's 20 years old and is not going to last forever!

The Sprinters seem to be able to run fine for a few weeks then all go wrong at the same time!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

Has this not happened to First in Cornwall before when Western Greyhound was winning many of the contracts? Makes me think First can survive with Truronian, Flixbus, Truro P&R, and the commercial network. I’m not doubting there will need to be depot closures and PVR reductions though!

Even in the days of Western Greyhound being at the top of its game I don't recall First being in this much trouble. Back then they still had at least as much local bus work, plus schools and the Truro College work.

I tend to agree though that they'll hang on. Such is the volatility of bus operators in Cornwall maybe they will even turn it around again, as difficult as it is to see it right now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Has this not happened to First in Cornwall before when Western Greyhound was winning many of the contracts? Makes me think First can survive with Truronian, Flixbus, Truro P&R, and the commercial network. I’m not doubting there will need to be depot closures and PVR reductions though!

I think that even in 2010/1, when arguably Western Greyhound were at their zenith, First's operations weren't as reduced as they will be now. They still had reasonable amounts of Truro College, schools and tendered work.

They were reduced to Camborne, Truro (coaching) and Penzance with outbases at Falmouth, Helston and Eden. We'll see what they end up with in future but it'll be a long way back.

 

[317 forever]

Indeed. We've been discussing nothing else on this thread since yesterday evening.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==


Good point re what stays and what moves.

And of course they could most probably sell to Stagecoach without attracting the interest of the CMA. The same could not be said of any sale to GoAhead.

It would be nice for Arriva to be represented in the south west, which they could be if they buy First Kernow. Unlikely to happen though.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It would be nice for Arriva to be represented in the south west, which they could be if they buy First Kernow. Unlikely to happen though.

Take more water with it.

 

[MarkC]

It would be nice for Arriva to be represented in the south west, which they could be if they buy First Kernow. Unlikely to happen though.

Oh no... why? Lol

 

[Goldfish62]

Take more water with it.

 

[Andyh82]

They need to try harder to remove the old residue of old fleetnames

The many different liveries wouldn’t be half as bad if you couldn’t clearly see ‘Doncaster’, ‘Halifax’, ‘Glasgow’ on the sides

On that note the Doncaster geminis seem more prominent, they must be popular. I’ve barely seen any Norwich ones

A random note, the U4X isn’t shown in the public timetables, even though it calls into Penzance bus station and picks up members of the public

 

[Goldfish62]

They need to try harder to remove the old residue of old fleetnames

The many different liveries wouldn’t be half as bad if you couldn’t clearly see ‘Doncaster’, ‘Halifax’, ‘Glasgow’ on the sides

Indeed. Not a good enough job removing the glue residue. It makes the buses look far scruffier than they need. Indicates a lack of anyone in a position of influence that cares about basic vehicle presentation, unfortunately.

The same can be said in Somerset where seemingly no one can be bothered to reprogramme the blinds for the Exmoor Explorer and instead drivers are told to display Sunseeker as apparently Exmoor Coaster would be misleading...

 

[fgwrich]

Indeed. Not a good enough job removing the glue residue. It makes the buses look far scruffier than they need. Indicates a lack of anyone in a position of influence that cares about basic vehicle presentation, unfortunately.

The same can be said in Somerset where seemingly no one can be bothered to reprogramme the blinds for the Exmoor Explorer and instead drivers are told to display Sunseeker as apparently Exmoor Coaster would be misleading...

I did wonder about that, surely having Sunseeker is even more misleading given that the route is still the Exmoor whatever… But this is the new era First Group and very little seems to make obvious sense.

 

[Goldfish62]

I did wonder about that, surely having Sunseeker is even more misleading given that the route is still the Exmoor whatever… But this is the new era First Group and very little seems to make obvious sense.

Yes, it's bonkers. Of course they could go for the really, really simple solution of reprogramming the blinds.

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder how many liveries have appeared on the Tinner on the same day, you literally don’t know what colour will turn up

I’m sure today on the T1/T2 I’ve seen green, red, blue, new FirstBus, Olympia, Lizard, Copper, Doncaster, HD Connect blue front, Bristol orange front and the old York University livery

Cornwall must be the last bastion of closed top B7TL operation, There were two parked in Truro today, one in Day Tripper colours and on in Bicton College. Neither were on public service though.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Yes, it's bonkers. Of course they could go for the really, really simple solution of reprogramming the blinds.

The way it’s being operated now makes me think they almost don’t want to, and are only doing it because some funding was forthcoming. It almost feels like they don’t want it to do well so they don’t have to bother next year. I’m sure that’s not actually their intention(?), but it’s how it comes across to me!

 

[Poiuytre]

It appears that Stagecoach have shortened some of the proposed Cornwall College routes from First's current routes (presumably to put more of them out of scope of EU rules). Will FSW have any need for service buses fitted with tacos after the loss of this contract (apart from certain rail replacement jobs). Does anyone know how many they have? Off the top of my head; all of the Solo SRs, many of the 37*** Geminis and E400s 33420 & 33712. Am I missing any such as any of the E400MMCs?

 

[Snozzel]

It appears that Stagecoach have shortened some of the proposed Cornwall College routes from First's current routes (presumably to put more of them out of scope of EU rules). Will FSW have any need for service buses fitted with tacos after the loss of this contract (apart from certain rail replacement jobs). Does anyone know how many they have? Off the top of my head; all of the Solo SRs, many of the 37*** Geminis and E400s 33420 & 33712. Am I missing any such as any of the E400MMCs?

I cant remember seeing a tacho in an e400mmc.

 

[Andyh82]

I think First have made a mistake dropping the Kernow brand. It worked well with TfC buses being red and First buses being green, and I’m sure when ticket inter availability started it was advertised with drawings of red and green buses

I don’t think a corporate livery really fits in Cornwall unlike in a big city operation

I would be still dropping Tinner and U lines blue though as they were never allocated right even in the Kernow heyday

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think First have made a mistake dropping the Kernow brand. It worked well with TfC buses being red and First buses being green, and I’m sure when ticket inter availability started it was advertised with drawings of red and green buses

I don’t think a corporate livery really fits in Cornwall unlike in a big city operation

I would be still dropping Tinner and U lines blue though as they were never allocated right even in the Kernow heyday

I don't see how a corporate livery doesn't work in Cornwall. Seemed to work in Devon for the last 30 years with Stagecoach, even if they did have the odd variation e.g. North Devon Wave.

The issue is, to my mind, that there were too many brands in any case. Only U Lines and Tinner had any critical mass. Also, the nature of interworking of Cornish vehicles (esp as they cycle through depots from outstations) also makes allocating the right vehicles to routes problematic.

 

[Lizard1324]

It seems like the repaints have completely stopped for Cornwall, is it due to the unpredictable future for first kernow

 

[Goldfish62]

It seems like the repaints have completely stopped for Cornwall, is it due to the unpredictable future for first kernow

They've been stopped for a while.

 

[fgwrich]

I don't see how a corporate livery doesn't work in Cornwall. Seemed to work in Devon for the last 30 years with Stagecoach, even if they did have the odd variation e.g. North Devon Wave.

The issue is, to my mind, that there were too many brands in any case. Only U Lines and Tinner had any critical mass. Also, the nature of interworking of Cornish vehicles (esp as they cycle through depots from outstations) also makes allocating the right vehicles to routes problematic.

The Atlantic Coasters seemed to work well, until they started separating them into their own individual brands. The Mousehole also used to work as those vehicles rarely tend to stray away from its route.

I’d argue things started to go awry when DayTripper came along - that didn’t need its own mini fleet. Lizard had the potential but again, probably not for a full fleet when the similar Kernow Green would have been just fine for it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Atlantic Coasters seemed to work well, until they started separating them into their own individual brands. The Mousehole also used to work as those vehicles rarely tend to stray away from its route.

I’d argue things started to go awry when DayTripper came along - that didn’t need its own mini fleet. Lizard had the potential but again, probably not for a full fleet when the similar Kernow Green would have been just fine for it.

The Atlantic Coasters to an extent - the Solars were pretty much dedicated to the A17 but the closed top Tridents did wander off onto other routes. However, the open toppers were fine until, as you say, they decided to have separate brands. Mousehole having a specialist vehicle requirement wasn't too bad.

DayTripper, Lizard, Copper, Unique - all just too much.

I think a corporate livery can work - Stagecoach proved that. Some paint isn't the problem... It's local accountancy and knowledge from committed management that is required and First are moving away from that.

 

[OptareOlympus]

The Atlantic Coasters to an extent - the Solars were pretty much dedicated to the A17 but the closed top Tridents did wander off onto other routes. However, the open toppers were fine until, as you say, they decided to have separate brands. Mousehole having a specialist vehicle requirement wasn't too bad.

DayTripper, Lizard, Copper, Unique - all just too much.

I think a corporate livery can work - Stagecoach proved that. Some paint isn't the problem... It's local accountancy and knowledge from committed management that is required and First are moving away from that.

Not forgetting Coast 2 Coast, Sunseeker and the various 'partner' liveries.

Atlantic Coasters was superb. A livery along those colours should have been adopted by TfC and FSW for the entire network. The teal and turquoise screamed Cornwall unlike bland red which just screamed London loving public sector identikits who think bus means red double decker.

 

[Andyh82]

I don't see how a corporate livery doesn't work in Cornwall. Seemed to work in Devon for the last 30 years with Stagecoach, even if they did have the odd variation e.g. North Devon Wave.

The issue is, to my mind, that there were too many brands in any case. Only U Lines and Tinner had any critical mass. Also, the nature of interworking of Cornish vehicles (esp as they cycle through depots from outstations) also makes allocating the right vehicles to routes problematic.

That is true, but if they’d just retained the green and nothing else that would have solved the misallocations

 

[Callum15632]

It seems like the repaints have completely stopped for Cornwall, is it due to the unpredictable future for first kernow

They haven't stopped, they have just slowed down as 33465 is/was in the process of getting a repaint at Hengrove. This bus was pictured at Hengrove Depot on 30th May 2025.

 

[henryb]

It appears that Stagecoach have shortened some of the proposed Cornwall College routes from First's current routes (presumably to put more of them out of scope of EU rules). Will FSW have any need for service buses fitted with tacos after the loss of this contract (apart from certain rail replacement jobs). Does anyone know how many they have? Off the top of my head; all of the Solo SRs, many of the 37*** Geminis and E400s 33420 & 33712. Am I missing any such as any of the E400MMCs?

Any source for the Stagecoach route shortening?

 

[farwest]

I assume our local smart Kernow liveried vehicles are going into Corporate livery for when they get shipped out the county. I cannot believe First Bus will be in Cornwall much longer.

 

[Poiuytre]

Any source for the Stagecoach route shortening?

Campus websites showing revised routes. Timetables to follow.

 

[Mollman]

It appears that Stagecoach have shortened some of the proposed Cornwall College routes from First's current routes (presumably to put more of them out of scope of EU rules). Will FSW have any need for service buses fitted with tacos after the loss of this contract (apart from certain rail replacement jobs). Does anyone know how many they have? Off the top of my head; all of the Solo SRs, many of the 37*** Geminis and E400s 33420 & 33712. Am I missing any such as any of the E400MMCs?

Was it a purely Stagecoach decision? If so surely that could be challenged by First etc if it is not what was put out to tender?