First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[bnm]

Afaik monopolies such as running both WCML and ECML are not allowed

So why then were Virgin allowed to bid for East Coast twice in the past?

Or as is likely First Group bidding for East Coast next year?

 

[williamn]

Very strongly worded statement from Virgin. And I agree with it. Very sad news. Virgin had the best customer service of any train operator. Take a look at their Facebook page - I doubt many toc's would get that many messages mourning their demise.

 

[Simon11]

You can run both the wcml and ecml. There would only be issues if they also ran flights, major regional bus operatoror or long distance coaches

 

[RPI]

According to DfT website First will pay £5.5bn over the life of the franchise so quite a lot less than was being bounded about before! No mass job cuts and if they intend gating 21 stations then that will actually create a load of jobs, not all doom and gloom afterall and at last services between brum and scotland will be electric and have more capacity! First are also claiming to be introducing an enhanced catering offer so possibly a travelling chef type thing? but that is pure speculation. Just have to hope now that our first group free travel will be expanded to WC!

 

[Bakerbloke]

On the radio a First spokesman said they are adamant that catering jobs will not go and the business model is solely based upon growth.

The reduction in standard anytime fares - do they mean those high price several hundred pound fares to London that I imagine very few buy or is it also say a peak time journey from Wigan to Warrington?

Also will the First agreement be published in full by the DfT? As capital expenditure really kicks in from 2016 I wonder if there is a get out clause with penalties for First at the 4 year point if their growth model does not become reality.

 

[Simon11]

What I'm rather surprised is the amount of investment they are making, with already large payments to the dft. Its all too good to be true and im wondering if the bad news will come out in the next couple of week?

 

[PR1Berske]

This didn't take long - https://www.facebook.com/ReinstateVirginTrainsWestCoast

 

[WCMLaddict]

All I can say is congartulations and good luck to First Group. I hope it is going to be as succesful as Virgin franchise.

Really happy to hear about increased amount of services from Preston (as long as they stop at Wigan NW) and interested to find out what 6 car electric trains they bring in.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also will the First agreement be published in full by the DfT? As capital expenditure really kicks in from 2016 I wonder if there is a get out clause with penalties for First at the 4 year point if their growth model does not become reality.

Yes, but not yet. Franchise agreements are usually published a few months after award.
I think the only penalties are the bonds First has had to lodge with DfT.

 

[Whistler40145]

I also hope FirstGroup will be as good or if not better than Virgin Trains.

Is there a mock-up of First's livery for the West Coast stock?

 

[yorkie]

The reduction in standard anytime fares - do they mean those high price several hundred pound fares to London that I imagine very few buy or is it also say a peak time journey from Wigan to Warrington?

The former. They'd have to submit a bid to ATOC to get hold of the Warrington to Wigan flow (and there's no way they'd reduce that in price!)

It will only be the really expensive Anytime fares that they reduce, and I can almost guarantee that the Railcard concession will end, plus the usual Super Off Peak trick to increase shoulder-peak prices. But no TOCs ever admit these plans early on and they always use spin to pretend what they're doing is good I'd be shocked if the West Coast franchise ticket structure doesn't go the same, expensive, way as the others, but we'll see...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't recall Bolton figuring on any plans before now.

It will be good to see Bolton once again served by such services.

 

[38Cto15E]

After doing all the hard work re-invorgorating the WCML, then spending £14 million on this latest bid, I cannot see Sir Richard getting involved with the ECML process.
I guess a number of Euston-Glasgows will be just Preston and Carlisle stops to shorten the journey time.

 

[jopsuk]

looks like Branson isn't going to bother with rail in this country for the forseeable future

 

[Zoe]

plus the usual Super Off Peak trick to increase shoulder-peak prices.

Didn't Virgin push the peak restrictions as far as they were allowed? If so then the shoulder peak could actually get cheaper if a Super Off Peak is introduced at the regulated rate and an Off Peak is available in the shoulder peak.

 

[PR1Berske]

After doing all the hard work re-invorgorating the WCML, then spending £14 million on this latest bid, I cannot see Sir Richard getting involved with the ECML process.
I guess a number of Euston-Glasgows will be just Preston and Carlisle stops to shorten the journey time.

I half remember the bids from Grand Central which suggested Blackpool services missing out Wigan etc., First Horizon (?!) are presumably going to do similar.

Hey, Wiganners, going to have to change trains to get to London, that's progress :roll:

 

[All Line Rover]

Didn't Virgin push the peak restrictions as far as they were allowed? If so then the shoulder peak could actually get cheaper if a Super Off Peak is introduced at the regulated rate and an Off Peak is available in the shoulder peak.

Yes, I'm thinking this too. Off-Peak restrictions have been pushed to the limit on the WCML. Just compare them to the ECML and GWML! Off-Peak passengers from most North West stations must pay the full Anytime fare if they wish to arrive in London any earlier than 11:29.

If any "reshuffling" of the fares structure is enacted, the Off-Peak will be renamed to Super-Off-Peak and will have identical restrictions (they can't be tightened any further) and a new, more expensive Off-Peak with more lenient restrictions will be introduced. All this will do is allow passengers to travel on shoulder-peak services for less than previously (unless, of course, they have a Railcard!). I don't see a problem with that.

 

[sparks2000]

I'm a bit saddened by this. I don't believe all/any of the Virgin group hype about being different (their companies are as commercial as any other; more so in some cases). Even so, I've travelled the WVH<>EUS at least once a month in the BR and VT days and had some really excellent/exceptional/fantastic service from the team at BR and VT. This will cause a lot of worry and distraction for a lot of people who are only trying to go about earning a living. Good luck to all the people involved in the changeover. Eventually the service will settle back to that which can be reasonably achieved with the money that is collected in tickets/subsidies. Economics dictates that the changes introduced by man can only disturb the equilibrium temporarily. VT are competent and have done a good job on the whole.

As the monied political types seem to use the EC line to get to the North more than they use the West Coast perhaps they wanted to save VT's bid for later to get some of the VT innovations on their pet route. However, EC is currently doing a fair job of copying the VT model.

I think it's a shame for everyone that worked so hard at VT. In the beginning, and now, it really seems as if they were/are trying hard. They did seem to get a bit complacent in the middle. I hope the good people continue to find work with the new franchisee and the financial burdens of the new franchisee doesn't get taken out on the workforce - you get what you pay for. Good luck everyone - I hope the management of the change takes into account that it is peoples' lives that are being changed here.

 

[Polarbear]

The content of the press statement from First regarding the new franchise looks reasonable at first glance. Virgin will be tough act to follow though.

As regards the 15% reduction in "Anytime" fares, I fully expect Off Peak fares to rise substantially over the next few years. Expect the current "Off Peak" fares to become "Super Off Peak", with tighter restrictions, and a new tier of "Off Peak" fares being established at say 20-25% more cost than the existing tickets.

I would also expect some availability of "Advance" fares on certain peak hour trains. Virgin used to do this but they all disappeared over the years.

The railcard concession allowing unfettered use on Virgin services will almost certainly go too.

Theresa Villiers was interviewed on BBC Breakfast earlier & she suggested that First would still be offering catering on 95% of the services. That suggests some cuts at the edges (late night/early morning), but I don't expect a large number of staff to lose jobs. It's more likely that anyone on a fixed term contact will not have that renewed & existing employees may be asked to work more "flexibly". I doubt that Mr Crow will be impressed!

The new trains will almost certainly be a "baby" Pendolino, as I understand Alsthom has already offered this to bidders for the WCML franchise. The idea is that the train will be 6 carriages long, have tilt & be 125mph capable, but will also have fixed (not retractable) coupling. This isn't linked in any way to the plans to introduce 350's to the TPX franchise at present, but the 350's being provided for the Manchester - Scotland services are only supposed to be a stop-gap, pending a possible re-drawing of the franchise map in the north of England.

 

[All Line Rover]

As far as I've concerned Virgin couldn't have bettered this bid, and I've no problem with First winning it. New trains (baby Pendolinos for sure), more destinations (it's nice to see Shrewsbury getting direct services at last - all the moaning paid off!), faster services, station improvements and massive premium payments to the Treasury. What more do people want!?

I'd say the only disappointment is that the remaining Pendolinos won't, for the foreseeable future, be lengthened to 11 cars. I'll be interested to see if First decide to convert one of the First Class carriages to Standard Class.

I'm also bemused by the "outcry" from the general public over Virgin loosing the franchise. Usually they're moaning about how terrible the service is. Virgin Trains is a Train Operating Company, not some brilliant tour operator or broadband provider, both of which are optional. Virgin Trains are a good TOC, but by no means excellent, and I'm reasonably confident that First can do just as well.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I have never seen so many staff look so disheartened at the same time. As someone who has worked for first (FNW) they were not a good employer to work for. They tended to make things up as they went along. With no organisation and poor staff relations. I hope that does not happen to the virgin staff.

 

[PR1Berske]

I have never seen so many staff look so disheartened at the same time. As someone who has worked for first (FNW) they were not a good employer to work for. They tended to make things up as they went along. With no organisation and poor staff relations. I hope that does not happen to the virgin staff.

I was just about to ask if anyone had been at a station today to gauge opinion.

 

[All Line Rover]

=
As regards the 15% reduction in "Anytime" fares, I fully expect Off Peak fares to rise substantially over the next few years. Expect the current "Off Peak" fares to become "Super Off Peak", with tighter restrictions, and a new tier of "Off Peak" fares being established at say 20-25% more cost than the existing tickets.

Even tighter restrictions? If that happened I wouldn't be able to arrive in London until 1pm! :roll: I doubt that's permitted under fares regulation. (If it was Virgin would have done it by now!).

 

[Zoe]

Expect the current "Off Peak" fares to become "Super Off Peak", with tighter restrictions

I don't think the regulations would allow the Super Off Peak to be more restricted if it replaces the Off Peak as the regulated fare.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The staff at Picc look rather p--sed off to say the least

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I half remember the bids from Grand Central which suggested Blackpool services missing out Wigan etc., First Horizon (?!) are presumably going to do similar.
Hey, Wiganners, going to have to change trains to get to London, that's progress :roll:

Not true.
Glasgow services will miss out Warrington and Wigan but there will be a new hourly service from Euston to Lancaster/Blackpool which will pick up these stops (and a couple more).
It's in the WCML RUS (to come in after the Norton Bridge upgrade).
Services to Preston double.

Forget Grand Central.

 

[DarloRich]

The number of people taken in by the spin, media and PR management from Virgin is frankly incredible (yes that is quite a few of you on here!)

 

[dave87016]

Totally agree Andy !!! the DFT dont give a monkeys what happens to the paying public as long as they get the readies, Virgin built the service which was in a rundown sorry state to a service that the UK was crying out for. Over the years passenger levels have soared, the reliability has increased endlessly and customer satisfaction has improved enormously aswell.

 

[PR1Berske]

Not true.
Glasgow services will miss out Warrington and Wigan but there will be a new hourly service from Euston to Lancaster/Blackpool which will pick up these stops (and a couple more).
It's in the WCML RUS (to come in after the Norton Bridge upgrade).
Services to Preston double.

Forget Grand Central.

Cheers.

 

[ItchyRsole]

I have never seen so many staff look so disheartened at the same time. As someone who has worked for first (FNW) they were not a good employer to work for. They tended to make things up as they went along. With no organisation and poor staff relations. I hope that does not happen to the virgin staff.

I work for First & have never ever had a problem concerning management. I've found my managers to always be available, willing to help & all round decent people. I'm by no means a company man & can be quite outspoken but I've never had to be whilst working for First. Seems like you got unlucky with the managers you had.