Flying Scotsman @ KGX?

[Finfanero]

Yeah, train stopped at Heck due to more trespassers up ahead (although the BBC story suggests these reports were unfounded). :roll: The train went forward initially at 20mph, which isn't much of a spectacle for anybody waiting by the lineside: I don't know what these photographers, enthusiasts or otherwise, think that they're achieving by going trackside. It just spoils it for the majority.

This was True

Where the A645 passes under the railway, just before Temple Hirst Junc near Hensall

The Police Helicopter was hovering above them and taking photo's but the didn't move. The Scotsman was past around 5mph.

 

[Deepgreen]

Going by the photos and videos on various local Facebook groups for Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, anyone would think every resident went out to get a photo and video.

I do think that an awful lot of people went to get a photo that doesn't generally go out taking photos of trains normally. No excuse obviously, but there might be a lot of amateur photographers who are not spotters and just loose enthusiasts.

Yes. However, to get the railway side requires a fence to be climbed - there is a clue there that it probably shouldn't be done. However, as with much in life, the minority will insist on knowing best/nothing and the majority will suffer.

 

[oddiesjack]

If this trespass business is going to become more common on Flying Scotsman-hauled tours, perhaps there should be paint ball guns available in the support coach for the crew to fire at (and subsequently help identify) the offenders.

Furthermore, if a bright green paint was used, this would differentiate between "proper enthusiasts" and the more general public.
How?

The General public would be moaning about their human rights, and having sad-face photos published in the Daily Mail.

The "proper enthusiast" would go on internet forums moaning about it being the wrong shade of green.

 

[Southwest]

There were morons at Biggleswade Common level crossing, two older retired types lurking behind a brick building track side and a middle aged man who wasn't hiding at all trackside on the northbound. These idiots are a disgrace and any delay costs incurred should be laid directly at their front doors.

If you are one of the morons I've described, I hope you are proud of yourselves.

 

[D1009]

One of the Youtube videos shows some pretty dangerous looking flying by the BBC News helicopter. Do they get any exemption from CAA regulations to cover this sort of event?

 

[gavin]

Michael Portillo is on board with a nice green (apple?) blazer.

Yes he's filming a new series of GBRJ

 

[LeylandLen]

I dont know if its been mentioned, but on RTT for `140Z The Flying Scotsman its got its own unique timings, ...

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

One of the Youtube videos shows some pretty dangerous looking flying by the BBC News helicopter. Do they get any exemption from CAA regulations to cover this sort of event?

I checked for NOTAMs in the areas the Scotsman was in, but I couldn't see anything apart from three notices for tethered balloons in the general area of the tracks. If I recall correctly, I believe it is not below 250 feet without written approval. I saw the BBC aircraft flying and it didn't seem to be doing anything wrong... Can you link to the video please?

#

Look who has piped up about the bad people on the railway... I would have thought they had more important things to worry about

 

[D1009]

I checked for NOTAMs in the areas the Scotsman was in, but I couldn't see anything apart from three notices for tethered balloons in the general area of the tracks. If I recall correctly, I believe it is not below 250 feet without written approval. I saw the BBC aircraft flying and it didn't seem to be doing anything wrong... Can you link to the video please?

Looks a bit less than 250 ft to me! Apparently 3 news helicopters followed the train all the way from Kings Cross to York. Couldn't have been much fun for those paying through the nose to travel on the train or those trying to legitimately film or photograph it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RSxfB41xbM

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Looks a bit less than 250 ft to me! Apparently 3 news helicopters followed the train all the way from Kings Cross to York. Couldn't have been much fun for those paying through the nose to travel on the train or those trying to legitimately film or photograph it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RSxfB41xbM

Clearly they had written approval

Thanks for the link

EDIT: Holy crap that *IS* low

 

[Dhassell]

Looks a bit less than 250 ft to me! Apparently 3 news helicopters followed the train all the way from Kings Cross to York. Couldn't have been much fun for those paying through the nose to travel on the train or those trying to legitimately film or photograph it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RSxfB41xbM

Holy crap! 250ft?!? Thats like 50 by the looks of it!

 

[CosherB]

Look who has piped up about the bad people on the railway... I would have thought they had more important things to worry about

More WCRC spin from their Facebook page:

We have all been looking forward to this historic day when the Flying Scotsman steams again.

WCR have been involved in the registration process of the locomotive for operation on Network Rail, in conjunction with the various inspection and certification bodies.

We also undertook the initial trial proving runs from Carnforth including a passenger train to Carlisle, earlier this month, before delivering it to York, two weeks ago.

Read some interesting stories here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-35649676 as the Flying Scotsman returns.

 

[tellytype]

One of the Youtube videos shows some pretty dangerous looking flying by the BBC News helicopter. Do they get any exemption from CAA regulations to cover this sort of event?

Yes, they will have had a low flying permission for this, although the lack of NOTAM is slightly concerning as a drone operator (licenced by the CAA) as otherwise we may not have found out about the low flying ops & ended up with an airprox. In the event, I was filming between Tallington & Grantham and no helos, just a couple of light aircraft who kept well clear of me & me them.

G-TAKE (BBC News) & G-SKYN (Sky News) helis are both operated by Arena Aviation out of Redhill, these guys have a heap to lose by not having the low flying permission though. They also employ some pretty darn stellar pilots

 

[BRblue]

According to one person on the train, they were not just standing to one side of the track, but several people standing directly on the running lines themselves!

Credit to the Scotsman's crew for getting the brakes on double quick

I wasn't going to post a reply to this but having re-read it I feel I have too.
As most posters on here are aware the East coast mainline is a very busy line especially during the morning and evening peak.
So can we please give some credit to the drivers of all the other trains that may of been involved in these trespass incidents, some of which would of been travelling appreciably faster. And the signallers who may of had to throw signals back in front of those same trains.
This seems to have been made all about the flying Scotsmen and her enthusiasts no thought given for the stress caused to a lot of railway professionals just trying to do their normal daily job.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wasn't going to post a reply to this but having re-read it I feel I have too.
As most posters on here are aware the East coast mainline is a very busy line especially during the morning and evening peak.
So can we please give some credit to the drivers of all the other trains that may of been involved in these trespass incidents, some of which would of been travelling appreciably faster. And the signallers who may of had to throw signals back in front of those same trains.
This seems to have been made all about the flying Scotsmen and her enthusiasts no thought given for the stress caused to a lot of railway professionals just trying to do their normal daily job.

When I posted that, it was implied the Flying Scotsman was the only train in that area at the time and they were standing in her path

 

[the-gog]

Yes, they will have had a low flying permission for this, although the lack of NOTAM is slightly concerning as a drone operator (licenced by the CAA) as otherwise we may not have found out about the low flying ops & ended up with an airprox. In the event, I was filming between Tallington & Grantham and no helos, just a couple of light aircraft who kept well clear of me & me them.

G-TAKE (BBC News) & G-SKYN (Sky News) helis are both operated by Arena Aviation out of Redhill, these guys have a heap to lose by not having the low flying permission though. They also employ some pretty darn stellar pilots

A couple of screenshot of G-TAKE

 

[SeanG]

Whilst I do not want it to happen, I believe that if this level of trespass occurs, then railtours should be stopped. At the end of the day, someone is going to get killed, let alone the delay to the rest of the network.

The railway isn't a museum, its a modern transport network.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Perhaps the NRM would care to pay for the delay repay, for the trespass wouldn't happen if they hadn't ran the railtour.

It would surely only be a drop in the ocean with the money that they have poured into the project

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Perhaps the NRM would care to pay for the delay repay, for the trespass wouldn't happen if they hadn't ran the railtour.

It would surely only be a drop in the ocean with the money that they have poured into the project

Why should they?

 

[DaleCooper]

I don't know whether NR will want to ban steam tours but surely it would be financially irresponsible not to increase access charges in light of today's events.

 

[455driver]

Holy crap! 250ft?!? Thats like 5 by the looks of it!

Corrected that for you! hock:

 

[SeanG]

Why should they?

That bit was a joke given the enormous expense of the project...

I don't know whether NR will want to ban steam tours but surely it would be financially irresponsible not to increase access charges in light of today's events.

Well the word on here is that NR are set against steam, especially after the WCRC fiasco.

It isn't possible to do this but a "more popular the engine" (and hence more prone to trespass then the "more track access charge" system would be ideal

 

[amcluesent]

How many paying pax were delayed due to this illegal action? It's bad enough when the 'kettles' cause line-side fires! It's time they were in the museum not on the ECML

 

[DaleCooper]

It isn't possible to do this but a "more popular the engine" (and hence more prone to trespass then the "more track access charge" system would be ideal

I'm sure it is possible given the will to do it.

 

[D1009]

Yes, they will have had a low flying permission for this, although the lack of NOTAM is slightly concerning as a drone operator (licenced by the CAA) as otherwise we may not have found out about the low flying ops & ended up with an airprox. In the event, I was filming between Tallington & Grantham and no helos, just a couple of light aircraft who kept well clear of me & me them.

G-TAKE (BBC News) & G-SKYN (Sky News) helis are both operated by Arena Aviation out of Redhill, these guys have a heap to lose by not having the low flying permission though. They also employ some pretty darn stellar pilots

Thank you and welcome to the forum. Strangely enough the growth in popularity of drones in recent times was in my mind when I watched the video. I'm not into aviation particularly, and had to Google NOTAM to find out what it was. I'd have thought an event like this would be of interest to drone operators. Are NOTAMs routinely issued in all instances of low flying permissions being granted, because if not, today's train in addition to raising rail safety concerns should also be raising aviation safety concerns.

 

[phil1960]

Apologies if already shared here:

https://twitter.com/jsimoncar/status/702782227722141696

Phil

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Apologies if already shared here:

https://twitter.com/jsimoncar/status/702782227722141696

Phil

That should renamed Exhibit One...

 

[TH172341]

The actions of a mindless minority today along the line was dangerous and thoughtless, not to mention the wider repurcussions of negative press and disruption. Having just seen that video - the signal aspects are on green - what a foolish risk to take, on a mainline, with stock travelling at speed, with hundreds of lives onboard.

However the majority, at least from my experience at York today were excellent - very courteous, obeying staff orders and it was a pleasant, magical moment at York to see the Scotsman come in.

I want to thank the staff at York today and for all involved in getting this set up. Certainly a lot of enthusiasm, with the PA announcer getting into it with mexican waves and providing frequent updates.

The Virgin Trains platform staff were all professional and polite - even when dealing with what was becoming a bit of a crush on the end of 10/11 at one point. The drivers passing through on various TPE and Virgin services at Platform 11 also gave happy greetings as they left; 91105, 185125 and 185144 in particular - 91 horns dare to say are deafening when caught off guard!

The high levels of people, young and old, taking an interest in this national icon was excellent to see, and I sincerely hope that the actions of a minority today don't have further repurcussions for steam operations.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The actions of a mindless minority today along the line was certainly dangerous and thoughtless, not to mention the issues of the negative press and disruption it caused.

However the majority, at least from my experience at York today were excellent - very courteous, obeying staff orders and it was a pleasant, magical moment at York to see the Scotsman come in.

I want to thank the staff at York today and for all involved in getting this set up. Certainly a lot of enthusiasm, with the PA announcer getting into it with mexican waves and providing frequent updates.

The Virgin Trains platform staff were all professional and polite - even when dealing with what was becoming a bit of a crush on the end of 10/11 at one point. The drivers passing through on various TPE and Virgin services at Platform 11 also gave happy greetings as they left; 91105, 185125 and 185144 in particular - 91 horns dare to say are deafening when caught off guard!

The high levels of people, young and old, taking an interest in this national icon was excellent to see, and I sincerely hope that the actions of a minority today don't have further repurcussions for steam operations.

I echo that... Lots of people in an already busy enviroment, and yet they all stayed sensible as far as I could tell. I was stood at the back of the bus station where the car park entrance is at Donny with my dad and elderly Grandmother - as we waited, a cop car pulled up and the driver dived out and raced towards us. However, instead of asking us to move, he sat on the wall and waited with the enthusiasts until it had passed

 

[SeanG]

On a more positive note, good to see that VTEC had managed to get the Flying Scotsman liveried 91 adjacent for the KGX departure

 

[BRblue]

That should renamed Exhibit One...

Absolutely!
I could not agree more.