-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Football
- Thread starter MidnightFlyer
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Here's one of those "Old Trafford Decisions" for all the nation to see.
Rooney in line, kept just onside by the defender's back foot, but called offside and the goal is not given. Instantly dismissed by the commentators as offside, not replayed again and ignored in the post match coverage in favour of the controversial handball decision.
Rooney in line, kept just onside by the defender's back foot, but called offside and the goal is not given. Instantly dismissed by the commentators as offside, not replayed again and ignored in the post match coverage in favour of the controversial handball decision.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Now then. I am going to set a question that is very difficult to answer and one that even the question-setters on both University Challenge and on Mastermind thought was too difficult to set on their programmes:-
What was the last home game played by Manchester United in any competition that balne-wonderer did not find a single query to make about concerning either the players on the team, those on the substitutes bench or any member of the management, directors or supporters of the club ?
What was the last home game played by Manchester United in any competition that balne-wonderer did not find a single query to make about concerning either the players on the team, those on the substitutes bench or any member of the management, directors or supporters of the club ?
Bayern Munich say they will appoint Pep Guardiola as their new (manager/coach ?) at the end of this season.
Another blow to those "journalists" in the British sporting press who believe the Premier League in England is "the finest in the world".....
coincidentally Fergie announced last week he expects to be about for 3 more years. Pep signs a 3 year contract. Pep announces his next job after Bayern will be in England. Either a coinicidence or just interestingly timed announcements, to get the press into overdrive?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Nearly right but still no cigar. It is local to Darlington and it was a competitive game
balne-wonderer
Member
Here's one of those "Old Trafford Decisions" for all the nation to see.
Rooney in line, kept just onside by the defender's back foot, but called offside and the goal is not given. Instantly dismissed by the commentators as offside, not replayed again and ignored in the post match coverage in favour of the controversial handball decision.
he is a actually marginally offside. its inches but you can see he is off. as was hernandez for the goal and vidic against liverpool.
Last edited:
ReverendFozz
Member
Funnily enough before I posted the image I wasn't entirely sure how clear it was so I asked several people their opinions (none United fans) and all of them agreed it was in line.
When both are in line the attacker would get the benefit of the doubt. The fact that the defender's back foot is in the air makes him look further from the line than he actually is, with his foot actually grounded it would look even more onside.
balne-wonderer
Member
I didnt want to put it as bluntly as that but yeah. odd.
still no comments on why it was a pen to man utd but not to west ham.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I critisise my own club more than anyone else. it remains to be seen what joke our season ticket prices will be next season.
Last edited by a moderator:
your screen print is a second early before the ball was passed to him. By the time the ball was played he was offside. The angle of the camera doesn't help, but use the mowed lines on the grass and he is offside. Given away by being passed the mow line and the defender the other side. The player sending to Rooney has still got his foot back to swing. When he swung Rooney was offside evidenced by the mowing. As he became in the darker area, defender was still in light area
balne-wonderer
Member
the joy of beating Birmingham and getting into the 4th round has now worn off as we've realised that Gareth bale might well play against our defence.
hopefully avb will be kind to us.
hopefully avb will be kind to us.
My screenshot is taken from the exact moment the television producers chose to pause.
Here is a higher resolution close up with a line drawn along the mow mark (if we assume that these are straight). The boots are clearly in line here and the fact is that the defender's boot is raised off the ground, grounded his foot would appear slightly closer to the goal line.
We are talking about mere millimeters here and without access to higher resolution images taken from cameras with a much higher frame rate there's no way to be more certain.
If even with blown up still frames we cannot be certain then you can be sure the linesman couldn't be certain in real time, in which case the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker.
balne-wonderer
Member
My screenshot is taken from the exact moment the television producers chose to pause.
Here is a higher resolution close up with a line drawn along the mow mark (if we assume that these are straight). The boots are clearly in line here and the fact is that the defender's boot is raised off the ground, grounded his foot would appear slightly closer to the goal line.
We are talking about mere millimeters here and without access to higher resolution images taken from cameras with a much higher frame rate there's no way to be more certain.
If even with blown up still frames we cannot be certain then you can be sure the linesman couldn't be certain in real time, in which case the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker.
bottom line is he is offside and like rich said by the time the ball is played he'd be even more offside. the fact is that the decision was correct.
My screenshot is taken from the exact moment the television producers chose to pause.
Here is a higher resolution close up with a line drawn along the mow mark (if we assume that these are straight). The boots are clearly in line here and the fact is that the defender's boot is raised off the ground, grounded his foot would appear slightly closer to the goal line.
We are talking about mere millimeters here and without access to higher resolution images taken from cameras with a much higher frame rate there's no way to be more certain.
If even with blown up still frames we cannot be certain then you can be sure the linesman couldn't be certain in real time, in which case the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker.
The tv producers have frozen early in that case to make it sound more marginal, as it was around 0.5 seconds early. Rooney is running towards goal, defender away from goal, 0.5 seconds will be around 2.5 metres each. Average footballer runs 5 metres per second.
I've paused the image myself from the live footage and with clear daylight visible between the defender's boot and the ball Rooney is certainly not five meters ahead, he's either mere milimeters on or off and it's impossible to tell either with still frames from television or for the linesman there. Unless the linesman can be certain a player is offside he cannot rule offside.
Considering after the initial replay it wasn't mentioned again either by the live commentators or in the post match recap it certainly seems like an oddly subtle conspiracy from the ITV producers to make it look more marginal.
can you get me a linesman view camera, he is perfectly positioned, and therefore his judgement is to be trusted, and I agree fully with the offside shout.
I obviously cannot get access to different camera angles, but what I can tell you is that your assertion that my still image is taken a second early and by the time the ball is released Rooney is five meters ahead is wrong.
Having paused on a single frame where the ball is in motion and no longer being touched by the boot I can say the players are still roughly in line and behind the mow line.
The fact that we can even have a discussion about the location of people's boots in individual frames should be indication enough that the human eye cannot be certain that Rooney was offside. The instruction to the officials would be to not rule offside unless certain of it.
edit:
I just realised the first image could give the impression that the ball isn't quite yet being kicked because it looks like the player has his weight on his right foot and is about to kick it with his left foot and the ball wont be played for several more frames. In reality the ball is actually being played with his right foot and is within a frame the ball will be gone with clear daylight visible.
Last edited:
EM2
Established Member
I didn't see this part of the match as I was on my way to work, so I have to ask how long was the pass?
The reason I ask is that it's physically impossible to for a referee's assistant to look along the line at Rooney's position and to see the exact second the ball is played.
The reason I ask is that it's physically impossible to for a referee's assistant to look along the line at Rooney's position and to see the exact second the ball is played.
It was quite a long pass. The ball was released not far past the edge of the centre circle and Rooney didn't make contact with the ball until he was in line with the penalty spot. Rooney played the ball back across the area to Hernandez who flicked it in but the whistle had already been blown.
Donny Dave
Established Member
For once, I'm going to back the officials here. While Rooney may well be onside, if you look at the posture of the players, Rooney is leaning foward, while the defender is leaning the other way, giving the impression that he is a yard behind him when the ball is played. That's what the linesman will have seen, and he will have judged Rooney offside because of it.
As I said a page or 2 back, referees and match officials have a very difficult job, and do not get the benefit of (endless) replays. Until a review system (such as those used in Tennis and Cricket), complete with hawkeye is implemented, they have to rely on what their eyes tell them. No matter what decisions they make, there will always be a lot of people who disagree with them, as the previous few posts show ....
As I said a page or 2 back, referees and match officials have a very difficult job, and do not get the benefit of (endless) replays. Until a review system (such as those used in Tennis and Cricket), complete with hawkeye is implemented, they have to rely on what their eyes tell them. No matter what decisions they make, there will always be a lot of people who disagree with them, as the previous few posts show ....
I absolutely agree that officials have a terribly difficult job and the screenshot wasn't posted as a dig at them or because I thought Manchester United were robbed of the goal. It's obviously extremely close and I can understand why it was given offside because Rooney's movement and pace meant in real time it did look like he was probably offside. Both defender and attacker are actually moving in the same direction but Rooney is travelling much faster.
I do think though that the advice to officials to not flag offside unless they are certain that it is exists because the governing bodies are very much aware that humans are not infallible, which is why in this instance I think the assistant should have not ruled it out but I understand why he did.
The reason I posted was simply because many people think that Manchester United get every decision in their favour including in this actual game, and here is an example where by a very fine margin a decision may well have gone against United which would have been ignored by everyone here, rival fans and the press.
Surely if we go through the local grounds we will get it then!
Kingsway?
Darlington Road, Ferryhill?
Got a sneaking suspicion it was St James Park though.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Surely if we go through the local grounds we will get it then!
Kingsway?
Darlington Road, Ferryhill?
Got a sneaking suspicion it was St James Park though.
nope - nearly right but STILL no cigar - keep going
Ah right, you might want to revise the number of Darlington home grounds.
In 1955/56, Darlington drew with Carlisle away in the FA Cup. The replay was played the following week but at St James Park and Darlington were designated the home side.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
ReverendFozz
Member
that is a cup replay - it doesnt count
This is killing me now, I have searched on Google and cannot find anything.
I am going to take a few guesses here
1. Brinkburn Road
2. Northallerton
3. Ayresome Park
Or
Dare I say it
Victoria Park
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2
DarloRich
Veteran Member
ALMOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! shall i tell you?
ReverendFozz
Member
Last guess, The Riverside...
Im done now, lol
Tell me, put me out my misery lol
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2